Gothicked (Gothic Novel Lovers) discussion

Hi all. I've joined this group to ask for some help. I've written another mystery, this time a gothic novel in the tradition of duMaurier, Stewart, etc. It's set in 1928 in France. My agent says gothics won't interest a publisher, but she's asked me to put together a proposal so she can give it a try. Can anyone help me out with evidence that gothics are staging a comeback? Many thanks.
Mary Miley, author of The Impersonator and Silent Murders (St. Martin's/Minotaur)

Well, recently Victoria Holts books have been re released in ebook format through Amazon. Some Catherine Gaskins as well (property of a gentleman is one and it has a very Gothic feel). While gothics may not be the most popular among the general population, there's always going to be a following among us "weirdos ". And for those of us who love them (and have already read Stewart's, Holt, Salisbury etc) I think new writers who write like our old favorites would be welcomed with open arms.

Thanks, Dorcas. I wonder, have you read anything published recently (like in the past 5 years) that you thought was a good gothic mystery?

I agree very much with Dorcas. There is still and audience for these. :=)

If you look at amazon's kindle store, Harlequin have a whole new line called "Shivers," and that's exactly what they are: gothics.

Yes, I saw that. I put that in my proposal. Thanks.

Hi Mary Miley! (fellow author waving hello!) HQ shivers is doing gothics and some other publishers are looking for gothics as well.

I'm pubbed with Hachette, Samhain and Entangled and I'm just getting ready to publish my first modern gothic this september through Entangled.

Mary, if you want to email me at ldsmith1818@gmail.com I'd love to chat with you. I'm trying to get gothics to stage a comeback as well. I write a bit like Stewart and DuMaurier as well. We should definitely chat!
~Lauren Smith

I love gothic type romance mysteries etc. I think the author Lydia Joyce reminds me of my old days reading material. More dark dramatic touch.
I grew up reading Phyllis Whitney, Dorothy Eden, Mary Stewart, Catherine Cookson....these authors were my first introduction into reading as a youth.

Toni I love Phyllis Whitney!!!

Toni wrote: "I love gothic type romance mysteries etc. I think the author Lydia Joyce reminds me of my old days reading material. More dark dramatic touch.
I grew up reading Phyllis Whitney, Dorothy Eden, Mary..."

Nice! I did not know about the Shivers books. Just went to Amazon and looked. They look interesting. I'm gonna give one a try I think. BTW,Phyllis Whitney was always one of my faves.

Thanks for the heads up about Shivers being available through Amazon. Being in Australia I can't download from the Harlequin site and I would love to read some of these titles.
However I am obviously Amazon search-challenged. I've just been there looking for the Shivers books and couldn't find them. I tried the kindle store and the Harlequin listing, I even tried a couple of titles and author names but drew a blank on all fronts.
Can somebody give me a little nudge in the right direction? Any help appreciated.

Lynn did you look up the Shivers line on the HQ site? I can't remember names or titles on hand. they haven't released a lot of shivers. the line is very new.
Lynn wrote: "Thanks for the heads up about Shivers being available through Amazon. Being in Australia I can't download from the Harlequin site and I would love to read some of these titles.
However I am obviou..."

Thanks Lauren, I have looked up the line on the HQ site but because I am not in the USA I cannot download books from there. I can, however, buy kindle books from Amazon with no problem which is why I am so pleased that the titles are available there.
I might just have to keep checking back periodically.

Lynn, I'm currently sending out free advanced reader copies of my modern day gothic romance if you'd be interested! I can email you the pdf. I'm looking for people who wouldn't mind reading the book and posting an honest review on amazon on release day on Sept 22nd. I'd love to send you the book. Feel free to email me at ldsmith1818@gmail.com if you're interested. :)

Lynn wrote: "Thanks Lauren, I have looked up the line on the HQ site but because I am not in the USA I cannot download books from there. I can, however, buy kindle books from Amazon with no problem which is why..."

Debbie wrote: "Nice! I did not know about the Shivers books. Just went to Amazon and looked. They look interesting. I'm gonna give one a try I think. BTW,Phyllis Whitney was always one of my faves."

The Shivers series is here:

http://www.harlequin.com/store.html?c... (hope you can read it)

Mary wrote: "Thanks, Dorcas. I wonder, have you read anything published recently (like in the past 5 years) that you thought was a good gothic mystery?"

Sorry Mary, I just found this thread again. ;/ Yes, I read The Pearl Tea House which was awesome, very atmospheric and spooky set in Sri Lanka. Sea of Secrets is another gothic which was pretty good. Im sure there's loads of others but those two come to mind..
A lot of Virginia Coffman's have been rereleased on kindle recently but they are vintage.

thanks Susan. looks good!

Has anyone read any of the Barbara Michaels books? I recently read "Witch" and loved that book! I thought Michaels gothic style was really fantasticly rich in her prose and her story telling.

I've found Barbara Michaels to be really hit or miss.
When she's in form she can deliver a brilliant sense of place and intriguing story-but there can be a lot of hard work to reach that pay off.
Over the years I have been pleasantly surprised by Carol Goodman and I would recommend her if you like a slower Literary style.
If you prefer a more modern take on the traditional gothic then Amanda Stevens Graveyard Queen trilogy is worth a look.

You are right Lynn, I tried another of Michaels, can't remember which one, but it didn't pull me in right away and I was a little sad. I haven't given up though on her and want to read more to see if any others were as good as the Witch. I am going off to amazon right now to check out Carol Goodman and Amanda Stevens. :) Thanks for the recommendations!


Lynn wrote: "I've found Barbara Michaels to be really hit or miss.
When she's in form she can deliver a brilliant sense of place and intriguing story-but there can be a lot of hard work to reach that pay off.
O..."

I agree about Barbara Michaels. I could never finish The Dancing Floor. tried to make a go of it twice.

Debbie wrote: "I agree about Barbara Michaels. I could never finish The Dancing Floor. tried to make a go of it twice."

That's good to know Debbie, I had the Dancing floor on my tbr pile.

Now see, I loved the Dancing Floor. And pretty much everything by Michaels. In fact, Michael's book Master of Blacktower was the gothic romance that inspired me to write my own book.

Interesting Kat. maybe it was just my timing.

Any particular likes on the Shivers books? Might download one tonight. Thanks!

Kat, I have the master if blacktower. it looks so good and I am excited to read it!!

Lauren wrote: "Kat, I have the master if blacktower. it looks so good and I am excited to read it!!"

Although it's my favorite of her books, it's sort of a "one off" from her usual stuff. It's a true gothic romance like Holt wrote. Michaels has said it's her least favorite book, and that she only wrote it because she needed the money at the time. Still, I really loved the whole "dark brooding master of the house" thing. I like her earliest works best. Her later ones veered closer to horror, although I still enjoyed them.

Kat wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Kat, I have the master if blacktower. it looks so good and I am excited to read it!!"

Although it's my favorite of her books, it's sort of a "one off" from her usual stuff. It's a t..."

Ooh Kat, I'm with you, I love the dark brooding master of the house thing too! I'm a total sucker for those sort of stories! I love them. I am super excited to read it now!! :)

Coming in late to the discussion, but I wanted to comment on the original question of traditional gothics making a comeback. In the past ten years, there have been a few efforts to revivie the gothic. In the early 2000's, Dorchester Publishing (no longer in business) was acquiring gothics. Jennifer St. Giles' The Mistress of Trevelyan came out from Pocket. Lydia Joyce released several gothics -- I think 5 of them and I think they might have been with NAL. Between 2005-2009, I released 5 gothics with Kensington Publishing. Erica Ridley wrote two or three gothics for Kensington, I think in 2010 & 2011. There was Dark Obsession and Dark Temptation by Allison Chase from Signet. The gothic revival didn't quite catch on, though. All these authors moved into other subgenres.

There are many who consider Deanna Raybourn's books gothic, though I'd say they're more mystery. Also, Susanna Kearsley and Simone St. James write with a gothic vibe.

In a more literary fiction vein, there's Diane Setterfield and Sarah Waters. In young adult, recent gothic releases include Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea and The Madman's Daughter.

I'm interested to see how the Shivers line pans out for Harlequin because most of the other publishers don't seem to have hit on a way to market the modern gothic.

I have always considered gothic literature (no, more specifically, the gothic novel)symptomatic of the grander decline of literature in the period we call "romanticism," with gothic writing an excessive example of preference for fantasy over realism, subjectivity over objectivity. These preferences seem to be historical and shift from age to age. But, when I gave a talk at the Gothic Institute Conference in San Diego a few years ago, I discovered that "Gothic" as a genre had ambitiously extended itself back in time to include works in the renaissance and middle ages. This is all complicated by considerations of "popular culture" and pulp fiction that operate on an industrial scale.

As a consequence of my rash thinking, you can imagine my unease when my novel, OULANEM, recently came out. It is the completion of a fragment left by the very young Karl Marx (19) before he became the one we all know. Very gothic--full of bombastic speeches, villains and bumblers, distressed damsels. In my hands, it is a novel of revenge, laudanum addiction, and sexual intrigue--extending Marx's intentions and style, I believe. You might take a look at it and give me some feedback.

Hello Everyone, I'm very late to this discussion! I love gothic romances and I'm also a Harlequin Shivers author. I'm delighted to 'hear' conversations like this about a revival of the genre. The recent Smart Bitches blog post has also helped get people talking. It just shows how much we still love these books.
My personal favourites will always include Victoria Holt, but I do love some of Mary Stewart's books, particularly Nine Coaches Waiting.

I wanted to say that a slightly updated version of the original gothics have emerged, along with contemporary romances with a decidedly gothic slant. There are also big office box attractions with a gothic theme in them, terrible I can't remember the titles right now. I know that while traditional publishers seem to say they don't exist, aka having morphed into romantic suspense, actually they are alive and well on so many Indie publishing sites, or e-book sites, that I can hardly believe it. All of my novels are gothics, two pulled from a defunct on-line publisher and re-invented, the third originally launched by kindle. All three are on kindle and Amazon, now (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_nos...)

I've been wanting to try one from the Shivers series. :)

This is an interesting topic. I've noticed that the basic concept seems to be making a come back among traditional publishers, but sadly it seems to be very watered down.

I'm not too familiar with Indie pubs so maybe they're looking for actual Gothics again. Either way I'd be really happy to see Gothic fiction become popular again. I'll definitely check out the links in the thread.

Just joined - I am so glad to see so many people interested in the real Gothics. (Like Holt, Whitney, Eden, etc.) I just found "Property of a Gentleman" by Catherine Gaskin for Kindle and devoured it, even though I have probably read it about 3 times in the past (hard cover). I wish more of these could be brought back. I am amazed that Mary Stewart's books haven't been "Kindle-lized" (is that a word?), especially since she did a crossover to another genre with her Merlin Trilogy. Anyway, I'm excited to keep revisiting these and any others I can find. I never cared for the Harlequin Romances - thought they were too formulaic. Is the Shivers line more like what we are discussing? If so, I'll give it a shot.
I still think it's hard to beat Barbara Michaels/Elizabeth Peters, even though I couldn't get into her Amelia Peabody series. There are so many of these books that made such an impression that there is no way I could list them all.
My first Gothic was Mistress of Mellyn by Victora Holt. I was 13 years old and thought I had died and gone to Heaven. Some other really notables for me:
Dragonwyck by Anya Seton
Ravenscroft by Dorothy Eden
The Turquoise Mask by Phyllis Whitney
Ammie, Come Home by Barbara Michaels

Anyway, glad to be part of this group. I love to think there is another generation of girls out there to whom this genre would be so welcome. Both of my daughters were huge readers and loved the Gothics, also. They are respectively 40 and 32 now, but still go back and read some of the ones we consider "Classics".

Welcome. I too am disappointed there are no kindle mary Stewart's. Also audible is lacking. I enjoy audio books bc I'm in the car so much. Frustrating there are not more gothic options. Haven't read any Shivers yet. Been thinking about it tho.

Sue wrote:
My first Gothic was Mistress of Mellyn by Victora Holt. I was 13 years old and thought I had died and gone to Heaven. Some other really notables for me:
Dragonwyck by Anya Seton
Ravenscroft by Dorothy Eden
The Turquoise Mask by Phyllis Whitney
Ammie, Come Home by Barbara Michaels

Yesssss! Sue, I know all those books! Most are in my bedroom bookshelves. We are kindred spirits.

I've got my fingers crossed that if Crimson Peak does well, we might either get a reissuing of a lot of the Gothic classics or maybe a flurry of new actual Gothics from people trying to ride its coattails.

Last July, I posted a question asking if anyone could recommend publishers who published gothics. I said I'd written one in the style of Victoria Holt, Mary Stewart, etc., and wanted to get it published traditionally, not self.
So, here's an update, ten months later: my agent submitted the manuscript to 8 traditional publishers. Everyone who read it liked it very much, but the answer was the same everywhere: No thanks. Gothic novels don't sell.
So I decided to self publish. This will be a first for me. A good experiment, if nothing else.
However, I can hardly call it "self" publishing, since I'm not equipped to do any part of it by myself! I've hired a retired editor to edit it, a really good graphic designer to design the front/back covers, and a geeky young man to format, upload or whatever else needs to be done. I'll probably never recoup the money I'm spending, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
If anyone's interested, I'm happy to share information about what this costs me and what the results are, in case others are considering self-publishing their own gothic novel.

Mary, I self-pubbed my own Victorian Gothic a year or so ago, and know lots of folks in the self pub world. If you ever need recommendations for anything, I'd be happy to pass along names. Best of luck, and let us know when it comes out! BTW, mine is Echoes in Stone, and is sultrier than the usual Gothic. And I'm really looking forward to Crimson Peak, although it's billed more as Victorian Gothic horror. But I'll watch pretty much anything with Tom Hiddleston in it!

Thanks, Kat. I do have a quesiton. Maybe you can suggest which platforms (if that's the word) I should use. I want to have an ebook and a softcover paperback. I've heard of Createspace for paper, but maybe there are others? And what about the best place to use for ebooks?

Lovespell released a Gothic series in early 2000s I think it was. Some of them were more like Paranormal Romances, but they did have some good ones. I believe one of the books they released as a Paranormal Romance was actually a Gothic, I'm not sure if it was released before the Gothic line or not. Harlequin Intrigue also had a series called Eclipse that say "Romantic Suspense" on the side, but "Gothic Romance" on the back. I have yet to get around to reading the ones from the Eclipse line that I have, but the copyright date in one of them is 2005. I saw something maybe a year or so ago about a Christian company releasing a line of Christian Gothic Romances. I believe the company was White Rose Publishing. I have not read any of those. http://www.edgyinspirationalromance.c...

Mary wrote: "Thanks, Kat. I do have a quesiton. Maybe you can suggest which platforms (if that's the word) I should use. I want to have an ebook and a softcover paperback. I've heard of Createspace for paper, b..."

When I first saw articles about Crimson Peak, it was being described as a Gothic Romance movie.

Advice please. My upcoming self-dubbed gothic novel is a historical, set in the champagne region of France during the calm years between the two world wars. It is a traditional historic gothic, in the manner of Victoria Holt, so it has the requisite castle and threatening "lord." But it is, like most traditional gothic, both a mystery and a romance. I need to call it one or the other. Is it more appealing to call it a gothic romance or a gothic mystery?

Romances have very specific requirements according to the Romance Writers of America. The most important part is that there must be an HEA (Happily Ever After). Does your story focus on the romantic journey of a couple? Do they end up together and happy at the end? I should probably add that the romance genre wildly outsells other genres, so it might make better sales sense to appeal to romance readers. And why do you need to call it one or the other? If I recall, Amazon allows up to seven "tag" like descriptions, so you could use both. Just my two cents.

Hi Mary, my comment was going to be along Pat's lines: use Suspense in the keywords Amazon lets you use, and use Amazon's Gothic Romance category (I can't see a Gothic Suspense category listed).
I am at a similar point to you ie an upcoming novel which is a contemporary rom susp with Gothic overtones - and also set in France (!). My rom and susp plot lines are reasonably balanced too and it was originally intended for the long-defunct Eclipse line. I wish there were a 'Gothic rom susp' category to reflect the core elements, but Pat makes a very good point about the strength of the romance genre!

Got it. My story does have a happy ending, in line with other gothic like those written by Mary Stewart and Victoria Holt. Daphne DuMaurier was a little less predictable in that way.

Yes, that's it exactly. In my story, the romance and the mystery are pretty equal and run throughout the story. So my question is more of a marketing one: which moniker (gothic romance or gothic mystery) is most appealing? Perhaps there isn't an answer . . .

Bonnie wrote: "Lovespell released a Gothic series in early 2000s I think it was. Some of them were more like Paranormal Romances, but they did have some good ones. I believe one of the books they released as a Pa..."

Thank you for the link - very helpful to me. I am someone interested in Gothicism, Christianity and how the two reflect on one another.

Re Mary's question of "Gothic romance" or "Gothic mystery" and which label might appeal more. Readers of this thread may be interested in Nicholas Sparks' item in the new Goodreads newsletter. He talks about "Romantic Thrillers" (nice label) because he has just written one, and he lists his top 5 favourites reads of this type. The first two are Jane Eyre and Rebecca! Thus demonstrating, I suggest, the central importance to Gothics of the romance AND the mystery/suspense links. Very hard to prioritise one over the other.
Will try and paste the link:
https://www.goodreads.com/interviews/...