Victorians! discussion

What novels cross your mind when you think about Victorian factories? Mills, masters, workers, north, south, urbanization, trade unions, strikes, machines.....I think the list could go ooon and on. Most importantly, however, my greatest dilemma: neo-victorian novels which include these issues??

You must be baiting us for the top answer, which must be North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell. Her earlier work, Mary Barton, also takes a serious look at the conflict and conditions of an industrial mill town.
Of course there are undoubtedly a few Dickens tomes that will involve these subjects. Hard Times comes to mind first.
I believe Charlotte Bronte delved somewhat into the above mentioned subjects in her work Shirley.
The fascination with the Victorian era is, for me, how relevant the issues involved still are today. The Victorian inventions, industry, and urbanization all herald the beginning of the modern age, and while that time period seems distant enough to be somewhat quaint and romantic, the unsettled elements of the time still confront our present day social, economic, and political fields of thought.
I'm not aware of, or quite sure I comprehend what you mean by neo-Victorian novels.

S... Just lost my response.

Anyway, Trudy, I wasn't familiar with the term "neo-Victorian" either. With a little exploration, last time Diana posted, I remembered there is even a thread here on this board on the topic:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

@162, Pip writes:

"...Today, authors can write about taboo (in Victorian times) subjects which could only be very mildly hinted at in contemporary novels....Women's roles in general come to life via neo-Victorian novelists who have done their research; many of us on these forums have complained about the saccharine heroines of Dickens' novels - they had to be so in those times in order to be out-and-out heroines (compare Florence Dombey - the real heroine - with Edith Granger - a woman we would identify much more with today, but who, because of her impure history, cannot have a happy ending). In a way then, some of the best historical fiction fills in the gaps that contemporaries could not write about..."

(I can't readily identify Edith Granger, is she in the same Dicken's novel as Florence, where Google was of help.)

Hopefully, Diana will continue to share a bit of what she knows and is learning about neo-Victorian novels.

P.S. Needed to try a little harder. Edith Granger is also in Dombey and Son: "proud widowed daughter of Mrs. Skewton, becomes second Mrs Dombey."

http://www.gradesaver.com/dombey-and-...

Here are a couple of links on the topic of Neo-Victorian that may be of interest:

All are from the Victorian Web itself and the first provides an index to a number of related topics:

http://www.victorianweb.org/victorian...

Syllabus of a course (at Brown?) on Neo-Victorian:

http://www.victorianweb.org/courses/2...

Michael Cox's The Glass of Time

http://www.victorianweb.org/neovictor...

Lily wrote: "Syllabus of a course (at Brown?) on Neo-Victorian:"

Wow. That's a significant reading load. And on top of it, this weekly assignment:

These reading and discussion question have several required parts:

Choose a substantial passage of 1-3 paragraphs or stanzas when discussing a literary text.
Create a graceful and effective introduction to the material you chose that suggests why the reader should want to follow you as you examine it closely.
Follow the quoted passage with at least one paragraph of commentary.
Ask 4-5 questions, chiefly concerning matters of technique and comparison to other works, for which you do not have to have answers. As the semester progresses at least one question should involve a comparison of the painting or poem or other text you discuss with one read in a previous week.
Provide a title for your question set and include your expected graduating class.

Lily wrote: "Here are a couple of links on the topic of Neo-Victorian that may be of interest:

All are from the Victorian Web itself and the first provides an index to a number of related topics:

http://www...."

Lily

And wow from me, too. The Web opens up so much possibility and information. Thanks for the links.

Prof Landow's work and his course sounds fascinating. A clearly 21 C man who is an expert in 19C literature and art. It would be wonderful to sit through his classes and lectures.

well, at first I intended to write an article victorian and neo-vic factory novel, but, given the fact that the victorians offer plenty of options, I decided to stick to the 19th ct: Sybil, Shirley, Alton Locke, Mary Barton, North & South, Hard Times and Dombey & Son. Did I forget anything important?.... Thanks for your suggestions though!!

Hi Diana,

I wouldn't say Dombey and Son was a factory novel, though it does deal a considerable amount with the growing railway network and the effects this had on, especially but not exclusively, London.
I think maybe the confusion arose via Lily's quoting me from another thread in response to a question about the meaning of Neo-Victorian :-)

Incidentally, in case the answer to that hasn't been made clear, a Neo-Vic novel is one set in Victorian times but written later than the Victorian period. I find it curious that this particular period has gained its own contemporary genre - has anyone ever heard of a Neo-Georgian or a Neo-Restoration novel? It's also interesting that the label Neo-Vic is (for me at least) fairly recent. When I first read The Quincunx many years ago, it was referred to as a Victorian pastiche. Personally, I'm glad that it has found a more serious-sounding label :-)

Pip wrote: "I wouldn't say Dombey and Son was a factory novel, though it does deal a considerable amount with the growing railway network and the effects this had on, especially but not exclusively, London.
I think maybe the confusion arose via Lily's quoting me from another thread in response to a question about the meaning of Neo-Victorian :-)..."

Thank you for clarifying, Pip. I indeed quoted you for the reason you cite, defining "Neo-Victorian" (in response to Trudy) rather than to imply Dombey and Son treats the growing industrialization, in particular factories. I don't know that novel well enough to comment on its thematic content. Sorry for any confusion created. ("Sybil" is still an unknown to me.)

George Sand was writing about French industry during the 1800's. The Black City is one I have read. I found it provided a contrast with English developments. Although I don't know them well enough to say this with assurance or to be confident of examples, I believe both Zola and Balzac commented on the impacts of industrialization on people's lives.

In re: Edith Granger. I believe she is Mr. Paul Dombey, Sr.'s second wife, the widow of Col. Granger, who runs away with Mr. Carker.

She is, therefore, at one point Florence Dombey's step-mother.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...

Sybil by Benjamin Disreali is a very good factory novel. It is very satirical and exposes the corruption which comes out of the factory system. It says that if organised well unions can be a good thing.

Although shocking in the suffering of the poor and in the corruption of the rich, it is an extremely funny novel in places.

It is written by a politician who would go on to distingiush himself as Britain's first Jewish prime minister.