THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

The December 2017 theme read is on any book or books of your choice that covers a WW2 aviation campaign or battle.

May I flag up that my new book, The Women Who Flew for Hitler, looks at the only two women to serve as test pilots for the Third Reich. Not exactly in your theme, but as close as the book might get... Thank you, Clare

Hi Clare, your book is quite suitable for the theme :)

The Women Who Flew for Hitler by Clare Mulley

Thanks Rick, appreciated! :)

Here's my suggestion: "Whirlwind: The Air War Against Japan, 1942-1945" by Barrett Tillman

A good suggestion Komet, I still haven't read my copy so I will have to consider it for the theme myself.

I can't seem to find my copy of "Whirlwind" so I may have to consider this book instead:

Mission to Tokyo: The American Airmen Who Took the War to the Heart of Japan by Robert F. Dorr

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I can't seem to find my copy of "Whirlwind" so I may have to consider this book instead:..."

That's a good one AR. Many interesting stories.

Well, this seems like a perfect reason to read the nice copy of that has been sitting on a shelf in the linen closet for quite a while...

I read your review on the book Mike and I'm thinking it may nudge "Stopped at Stalingrad" to second place in consideration.

Liam wrote: "Well, this seems like a perfect reason to read the nice copy of that has been sitting on a shelf in the li..."

Excellent choice Liam!

I'd suggest Legends of the Flying Clippers: Memoirs of Paul Rafford Jr. :)

Do we include the battle of Britain on account of all the Spitfires & Hurricanes? If so I can dust off Battle of Britain: The Greatest Air Battle of World War II

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I can't seem to find my copy of "Whirlwind" so I may have to consider this book instead:

[book:Miss..."

That's a good one, and Whirlwind is as well. Both are fairly short, but have some good information and personal accounts. Dorr's book on bombing Berlin is a good one too.

The Girls of the Atomic City. Very nice book of how America’s women created a missile I️ suppose.

Dimitri wrote: "Do we include the battle of Britain on account of all the Spitfires & Hurricanes? If so I can dust off Battle of Britain: The Greatest Air Battle of World War II"

Of course we can include the Battle of Britain :)

Dimitri wrote: "Do we include the battle of Britain on account of all the Spitfires & Hurricanes? If so I can dust off Battle of Britain: The Greatest Air Battle of World War II"

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Dimitri wrote: "Do we include the battle of Britain on account of all the Spitfires & Hurricanes? If

Mmmm Hurricane-tastic. Never mind the pretty boy scene stealers!

I went on my library run for December challenge books today. I had wanted to read several books for this theme, but decided to start with Target Tokyo: Jimmy Doolittle and the Raid That Avenged Pearl Harbor since I don't know much about Doolittle's raid. After finding the book, I've decided that it may be the only book I read for this challenge. I'm going to need to check page counts before settling on my monthly reads in the future. :-)

Amanda wrote: "I went on my library run for December challenge books today. I had wanted to read several books for this theme, but decided to start with [book:Target Tokyo: Jimmy Doolittle and the Raid That Aveng..."

That is an excellent book!

I agree with Marc, that's one of the best books I have read on the Doolittle Raid so I hope you really enjoy it Amanda.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I agree with Marc, that's one of the best books I have read on the Doolittle Raid so I hope you really enjoy it Amanda."

It makes me feel better that at least 2 people think highly of the book. I almost picked out a different (shorter) book.

I think you won't notice the page count as its such an easy book to read, the pages will fly by :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I think you won't notice the page count as its such an easy book to read, the pages will fly by :)"

I agree--this one goes by quickly! Besides, don't look at the last page for the final total as there's always notes and an index which can take up quite a bit of room. I seem to recall this book being somewhere between 400-450 pages in hardbound form.

I am joining a day early with --

Air War Normandy by Richard Townshend Bickers.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I can't seem to find my copy of "Whirlwind" so I may have to consider this book instead:

[book:Miss..."

I've been trying to decide wether to read this next or not! :D
I bought it about 2 months ago. Hopefully i can get to reading it sooner than later.

Pramodya wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I can't seem to find my copy of "Whirlwind" so I may have to consider this book instead:

[bookcover:Mission to Tokyo: The American Airmen Who Took the War to the Heart of Jap..."

It's worth a read.

That looks like a good one; the story of that mission is quite fascinating. I remember reading many years ago, and was completely amazed at the audacity it took to pull it off...

I will be a few days late starting my theme book but I will join in as soon as I can.

Amanda wrote: "I went on my library run for December challenge books today. I had wanted to read several books for this theme, but decided to start with [book:Target Tokyo: Jimmy Doolittle and the Raid That Aveng..."

That is a good book, and I can attest from having interviewed many of the Raiders, including Doolittle, Cole (last living), Dehayzer, Macia, Nielsen, etc.

I'm going through A Wing And A Prayer: The 'Bloody 100th' Bomb Group Of The Us Eight Air Force In Action Over Europe In World War Ii, currently at the point of August 1943, the shuttle mission to Regensburg. This will be the make or break point of the book, to be honest it's not quite melding with what I've read in various other books about the group. The part where the author refuses to have the group bomb Bonn as a target of opportunity and gets away without even a reprimand (from apparently even Curtis LeMay!) doesn't quite ring true.

Hahaha, I suspect I'll be a bit late also, Rick!

++++++++++++++
I read this book, A Wing and a Prayer: The Bloody 100th Bomb Group of the U.S. Eighth Air Force in Action Over Europe in World War II several years ago and it left a very deep impression with me. I felt keenly a part of the missions that Crosby flew on, first as a navigator for a single B-17 bomber, and later, as the lead navigator for the bomber group.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this book.

On Richard Townshend Bickers' Air War Normandy.

I am just digging into Air War Normandy. There was a very good presentation on the British electronic deception plan for D-Day in which closely-coordinated flights of bombers dropped chaff ("Window" to the Brits) at specified times and set altitudes to simulate a fleet of ships at sea. Unfortunately, Townshend's book is littered with misspellings and typos -- something I find off-putting. I have noticed before that some Pen & Sword publications struggle with poor editorial and production quality.

Townshend has one factual boner just within the first few pages:

When Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin met at Casablanca in January, 1943, to confer on strategy, they agreed that until the German submarine fleet was overcome...

Stalin wasn't at Casablanca.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I will be a few days late starting my theme book but I will join in as soon as I can."

Hope you didn't get sidetracked by another book on the Eastern Front?

Hauling on, but I'm not getting any feelings of mountains of used brass or Fortresses coming in with injured and dying aboard, they're mentioned but more as throwaway comments. This paragraph brought a grim wee laugh though:
"This[a mission on 2 October 1943 (I think)] was an important mission, our first with blind bombing apparatus. A few pants at Alconbury had H2X, a radar scanner, slung under the nose. It looked like a bathtub hanging there. The radar operator could look through the clouds and see the outline of the city. When we got to our target, his plane dropped a flare, and we all dropped on it. The system was not accurate. We were satisfied if none of our bombs was more than five miles from the point of desired MI, the point of Maximum Impact."

Am part way ENEMY COAST AHEAD by Guy Gibson. Evidently the early days of the war were rather boring for the men in his squadron. Much of their time was spent in training or drinking. He does admit that he had intended to visit the dentist, but figured that he wouldn't survive long enough to do so. As a result, when the Phony War continued, he decided to make another appointment to have his teeth taken care of.

That's a good story Betsy, sort of makes sense in a fatalistic way eh!

From Air War Normandy by Richard Townshend Bickers.

Bickers, in discussing French aviators in the RAF, misidentifies the World War I French ace, Charles Nungesser, as Charles Guynemer. He confuses him with Georges Guynemer. Sloppy work.

That's pretty bad MR9, sad to see that occur with an author who is an aviation specialist. Maybe just a typing error, sort of slip of the mind, but not picked up by an editor.

I am currently reading Shadow over the Atlantic: Fernaufklärungsgruppe 5 ‘Atlantik’ – The Luftwaffe’s Long-Range Maritime Reconnaissance and U-boat Cooperation Unit 1943-45 via NetGalley, but I think it came out a few months ago (July?). So I'm inadvertently participating in the group read I guess!

So far it's a fairly interesting read - looks at some of the various aircraft and operational tactics involved in maritime reconnaissance, as well as the variety of troubles the Luftwaffe faced both internally and as part of its operational duty in tracking convoys for the U-boats. Certainly a difficult combined arms operation at the best of times.

Also, if anyone's looking for a strategic bomber read, I can highly recommend The Wrong Stuff: The Adventures and Misadventures of an 8th Air Force Aviator. I had it as an audiobook last month. It's a very interesting and holistic read - the author covers flying operations, training, days off, and a whole "coming of age" issue in one title - probably one of the best memoirs I've read in a long time!

Charles wrote: "I am currently reading [bo..."

Keep us posted on this book Charles as I was tempted to grab a copy of this book when it was first released so I'll be keen to hear your final thoughts once you have finished reading it.

From Air War Normandy by Richard Townshend Bickers.

Bickers' book has an interesting chapter on German torpedo bomber ops against the Allied invasion fleet. Between D-Day and August 1st, according to Bickers, the Germans sank 8 cruisers, 24 destroyers, 5 MTBs, and 20 cargo, passenger and landing ships. He credits "a large part" of these losses to torpedo bombers, particularly Kampfgeschwader 26 Luft Torpedo, but doesn't provide precise numbers. E-boats, shore artillery, dive bombing, and mines caused many ship losses too. His numbers on ship losses disagree with those from other sources I looked up, but the info on torpedo plane ops was good nevertheless. The German torpedo pilots reported their difficulties in making launch runs because the Allied ships were so numerous and close together.

Do y'all think my current read is good for the December Theme Read?

It does include several aerial battles...

Gregg wrote: "Do y'all think my current read is good for the December Theme Read?

It does include several aerial battles..."

Why not?

From Richard Townsend Bickers' Air War Normandy.

Another strange gaffe in Bickers book. He relates the well-known story of the death of Lieutenant General Leslie J. McNair due to errant U.S. bombing during Operation Cobra on July 25, 1944. He identifies McNair, known as one of the highest ranking U.S. officers KIA in WW II, as Lieutenant General McNair Wilson. Where did he get that?

Not very good fact checking there MR9!

Manray9 wrote: "From Richard Townsend Bickers' Air War Normandy.

Another strange gaffe in Bickers book. He relates the well-known story of the death of Lieutenant General Leslie J. McNair due to e..."

This is when I start marking books down big time.

4triplezed wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "From Richard Townsend Bickers' Air War Normandy.

Another strange gaffe in Bickers book. He relates the well-known story of the death of Lieutenant General Leslie J...."

Me too.

The Gibson book can be rather amusing at times. Early on his squadron is ordered to be careful not to bomb any civilian installations, but he admits their accuracy with hitting targets is probably 10% despite some low level efforts. As a result, they do lose some planes and personnel. Unfortunately, he loses his navigator as a replacement on another plane. So he is forced to use his rear-gunner as a fill-in. Watty learns fairly quickly in his short training. Gibson then admits, "In all we put in fifteen hours in two days, which was quite a feat, especially as Watty was a man about thirty, long past the age of learning things quickly."