Jane Austen discussion

Sir Thomas has unexpectedly arrived home and interrupted the plans for the play. He isn't happy! But Sir Thomas seems to be more pleased and friendly to Fanny than usual. Maria marries Rushworth.

I like Sir Thomas and I donnot think his behavior is different than most men of his rank and times even 100 years ago{ before ww1} rich men in Britian did not have much to do with their children who came to see them for an hour after tea It appears so in many novels and biographies

I agree with Mrs about the fact that Sir Thomas doesn't behave differently from other men of his time. However when he comes back from Antigua seems to notice more of Fanny, he seems to value her presence.
I think he missed her while away. Of course he missed all of his family, but probably was surprised to find out how important Fanny had become to him.

Sir Thomas had come home to find a nightmare.A play being put on in his house.I think this would be equal to parents coming home early after there teenage had just planned and set up for the party or had a party and destroyed the house.

@Irene I think you are right.He was surprised how much he missed Fanny and realized that she was important to him.

I did feel for Maria when she thought Henry was coming to declare himself and he was coming to take his leave.The feelings of joy she felt of when he meet her father and she really thought he was going to ask her to marry him.I don't really now how that was going to happen with her engaged to someone else.Wouldn't she have to break the engagement and then be asked?I don't think her father would have been happy her flirting and falling in love with another man while engaged to another.Would he even have given his blessing?It doesn't sound like something Sir Thomas would do.He wouldn't have wanted Maria to marry Henry because of how it came about I think.What do you all think?Would he have been happy for Maria to marry Henry?

@Nicole D

I think it 's possible that Sir Thomas migh not have approved of HC due to his attaching Maria's affections while her betrothal to R was so public. However, he certainly had reservations about R!

@Nicole D.
I think that Sir Thomas was aware of his daughter being little interested in Mr Rushworth, let alone in love. Probably he would have been happier to let her marry for love (that was evident at least on her part). I felt for Maria too. Even if I don't like her and her behaviour, she truly felt something for Henry.
Even if it was difficult and quite scandalous, there was a way to break and engagement. Sir Thomas would have had to speak to Mr Rushworth and his mother and then there would have been a period between the end of this engagement and the beginning of another.

HC is just a cad of the worst kind! Tampering with a pair of sisters and then having no honorable intensions for either.

I have reservations about the degree to which a married Maria is fit chaperone with proper judgement for Julia in Brighton and in London. However, this is my first read of MP, so I'll have to see what happens.

It is more likely that Julia should chaperone Maria as they are both aware

Poor Mr Rushworth!

Andrea it is great fun to watch you read the novel for the first time. your remarks are wonderful. my first readings were so long ago I haven't any idea what I thought Please keep in touch and comment as you read the other novels (I am a retired(as one child wrote of his grandpa retarded) English teacher)

Why thank you Mrs! I was not sure who the first time readers were in the discussion. I'm just sorry that I was not a member of this group for the readings of JAs other books!

I shall reread them with you

That sound great! Thanks!

Nicole wrote, "I don't think her father would have been happy her flirting and falling in love with another man while engaged to another.Would he even have given his blessing?It doesn't sound like something Sir Thomas would do.He wouldn't have wanted Maria to marry Henry because of how it came about I think.What do you all think?Would he have been happy for Maria to marry Henry?"

I think time spent in Antigua (and we can all pretty much guess what was happening there :/)and away from his family made him more aware of important things in life and more atuned to feelings of his family. Like it says here:
"With solemn kindness Sir Thomas addressed her; told her his fears, enquired into his wishes, entreated her to be open and sincere, and assured her that every inconvenience should be braved, and the connexion entirely give up, if she felt herself unhappy in the prospect of it. He would act for her and release her."

Too bad he figured things out too late to change things and that he apparently did not learn enough since he so easily accepted Maria's reasoning because he was "too glad to be satisfied,(...), to urge the matter quite so far as his judgment might have dictated to others. It was an alliance which he could not have relinquished without pain."
Sigh!!! :/

Oh, and no matter how much I despise (I do not want to use the word hate) Mrs. Norris, I find her hillarious here:

"Mrs. Norris was by mo means to be compared in happines to her sister. (....) but she was vexed by the manner of his return. It had left her nothing to do. Instead of being sent for out of the room, and seeing him first, and having to spread the happy news through the house, Sir Thomas, (...) had sought no confidant but the butler. (....) Mrs. Norris felt herself defrauded of an office on which she had always depended, whether his arrival or his death were to be the thing unfolded."

Oh, Mrs. Norris, you make my day. So much selfishness. If it weren't so tragic, it would be quite comical (which it is to me) :D

@Samanta

I'll use the word hate : Mrs Norris is hateful, mean and spiteful.

I'll be interested as I read JAs other novels to see if there is a character as bad as or as worse as Mrs Norris.

Uuuuum....maybe Anne Elliot's father and sister but in a slightly different way (just barely :D)

what about The Mrs Ferrars Sr and Jr.

Those too! Actually I think you can find a "Mrs Norris" in each of Jane Austen's novels, and not necessarily females :)

Sir Thomas does seem much nicer when he returns home, but I think my opinion of him would have been better if he’d not condoned Maria’s marriage and her reasons for marrying… he knows she does not love Rushworth and has a low opinion of him himself. He does give her an opportunity to get out of the match but clearly is relieved that she does not take it. It is a shame he does not know her better but Mrs Benyishai is right, it would have been unusual for him to take much interest in the education of his daughters, though he relied too much on Mrs Norris making up for his wife’s deficiencies.

Whether Sir Thomas would have welcomed Mr Crawford as a son in law probably depends on how they handled telling him. If he knew the full truth, probably not, but it was a decent enough match if it had come about honourably, though not so profitable a match as Rushworth.

@Andrea, I agree, poor Mr Rushworth, he didn’t really deserve a wife on such terms did he?