Victorians! discussion

Please discuss chapters 50 - 59. This is the end of the novel, so no need to worry about spoilers!

I finished the book last night and really enjoyed this story so much. I'll add more later (perhaps when some others finish). Such wonderful and interesting characters.

I always feel that Dickens creates some characters that are just on the line of believability - eccentric and strange, but yet interesting and fun. This is when I usually say to myself that there are more than 7 billion people on the planet and, over the past 150-odd years, many billion more have lived. It's not out the realm of possibility that there are all kinds of eccentrics out there.

I'm so close to the end of the book, but part of me doesn't want this story to end! It as been quite a journey. I feel like while you see Pip's evolution as a person and while you witness him discovering his true self, you kinda evolve to! Books that are able to do this to you and influence you this way are the good ones. I mean, the GREAT ones.
I think that's what really attracts me and makes the reading so exciting.

I haven't quite reached the end of the book, but wanted to comment on the anonymous note Pip received. Knowing how cautious he had been about checking he wasn't followed, moving Provis to a secret location, etc, it surprised me how determined Pip was to visit the location stated alone and at night! Such a close-run thing, I was on tenterhooks! Then, in all the confusion, Orlick escapes. Brilliant :)

Not one, but two endings! I hope most of us have a copy (or can get one) that contains both the ending that Dickens wanted and the ending that he was persuaded into finally writing for his reading public. This is probably the most tangible evidence of how writing in a serial fashion reflects the desires of his reading public, and, of course, the suggestions and urgings of his friends and fellow authors.

I have read GE more than once before, and always preferred the second ending. This time around, due in part to a shift in my feelings towards Pip, I do think the original ending does suit the mood of the story, the reality of where the plot was heading, and the proper tightness of his story line.

I didn't realise there was an alternate ending. My e-book has the meeting in the garden and I thought it a very fitting ending ... even though I usually prefer a 'happy ever after' type. This seemed to fit well with the tone of the book.

I think Pip has learnt some very important lessons and developed into a well-rounded, thoughtful person. I wish him well in his future.

Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "I didn't realise there was an alternate ending. My e-book has the meeting in the garden and I thought it a very fitting ending ... even though I usually prefer a 'happy ever after' type. This see..."

Hi Helen

You have read the second ending, the one that was the "accepted" version and the one Dickens settled on.

You might want to Google the first ending for interest to see what Dickens originally intended. I'd be interested in your response.

Peter wrote: "You might want to Google the first ending for interest to see what Dickens originally intended. I'd be interested in your response..."

I found the text of the original ending at the Victorian Web - http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/d... and the line "she gave me the assurance, that suffering had been stronger than Miss Havisham's teaching, and had given her a heart to understand what my heart used to be" makes me feel that Pip is glad Estella has suffered. He seems to be saying ... 'now you know how I feel/felt'. I prefer the other version where Pip seems to be a more forgiving, nicer person.

Hi Helen

Yes, the tone of the "original" ending is much darker, perhaps even tinged with a gentle bitterness. As I mentioned earlier, I leaned towards the first ending in this reading, as I also found Pip to be less likeable this reading. With the exception of Pip's secret generosity towards Herbert, and his advocating for Miss Havisham to also help Herbert (and I don't discount this as, in any way, trivial) Pip very infrequently was a likeable person to me. He certainly was insensitive to his family when he did not visit them when visiting Miss Havisham, he was rather arrogant when he thought he could stride in and claim Biddy for his after he had lost Estella and he was insensitive to Joe who nursed him back to health. It is painful to read how, as Pip's health improves, Joe reverts back to referring to Pip in formal language, and yet Pip does not notice, or worse, does not correct Joe. While it is regrettable that Pip is injured twice by fire, once when held captive by Orlick and once when he smothers Miss Havisham's flames, I do not see these episodes as cleansing Pip's guilt.

To me, GE represented a mature Dickens in complete control of his considerable gifts, and very aware of his characters and a novel that would closely and honestly reflect the reality of people's existence. The first ending leaves both Pip and Estella bruised, but wiser humans. Pip works hard and does achieve limited success in his partnership with Herbert. Perhaps Coleridge's "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" captures the situation best. The last line "A sadder but a wiser man/He rose the morrow morn" best sums up their lives, candidly and honestly.

Well, of course when I read this novel again who knows what I'll think...

I'm sorry I have been somewhat absent for the end of the discussion, but I want to thank you all for a wonderful, lively discussion!

Peter, I'm so glad that you brought up the two endings, as I hadn't been able to make it here to do so myself. According to my introduction, Dickens had written the shorter ending and gone to visit the writer Edward Bulwer-Lytton, to whom he revealed the ending, and it was Bulwer-Lytton who convinced him to change it. I personally do prefer the rewritten ending, even though it doesn't really end much more happily than the other.

And didn't everyone just love Wemmick's wedding? His casual nonchalant air. "Halloa! Here's a church! ... Let's go in! ... Halloa! Here's a couple of pairs of gloves! Let's put 'em on! ... Halloa! Here's Miss Skiffins! Let's have a wedding." So at least Wemmick finds love, as well as Herbert and his Clara. While reading this novel, I couldn't help comparing Herbert with Traddles in David Copperfield. Both faithful, unassuming, true friends to the main characters.

Denise wrote: "And didn't everyone just love Wemmick's wedding?..."

Absolutely. Wemmick was my favourite character. I will forever remember his advice to acquire 'portable property' :)

Hi Denise

I totally agree with your comment "faithful, unassuming, true friends" to define both Herbert and Traddles. And then, of course, there is Joe with his earnest and loving phrase to Pip "ever best of friends, old chap."

As mentioned in the posts I have read GE numerous times, in different circumstances, and always favoured the second and final ending best. For some reason, this time, the first seemed to resonate very deeply with me. The power of Literature. The novels remain as beacons and lighthouses; it is the readers who change their courses through life.