Goodreads Ireland discussion

This is the spoiler thread.

I am still only 75% through but I reckon that part 2 of the June Chapter is probably going to be the most pivotal in all the relationships of the Characters.

In this one William and Cora first understand their sexual attraction to each other - described by the narrator from Francis Cora's autistic son (an interesting choice?)

"Then William put his hand on Cora's waist where her blouse was tucked, and Francis heard his mother sigh. She looked up - they stood quite still together - there was a quiet moment, and no-one spoke. Francis, watching, burst a piece of orange on his tongue: he saw how his mother smiled at Will, and how the smile was met with a steady, stern look - how then her head moved as though drawn back by the weight of her hair, and how his hand flexed at her waist, tugging the fabric of her skirt."

Francis presumably being on the autism spectrum has a lot of questions on what is happening.

"... but it seemed to her watchful son that a false note rang out clearly as if Jo still sat at the ill-tuned piano. Why had William Ransom said nothing as he went out - why had his mother not offered him her hand - what caused Martha and the Imp to survey her silently now, as if she'd disappointed them? Well - he crawled out from beneath the table - what use was it to observe the human species and try to understand it? Their rules were fathomless and no more fixed than the wind."

The narrator dismisses Francis and his mother to bed and swiftly moves on to Martha and the Luke. both characters that are in love with Cora and who also witnessed the events and their reaction is to fall into spend their passions for Cora with each other.

"They surveyed each other, feeling all their antipathy ebb, and how the air was thick with the uselessness of their longing, and no way for it to be spent. In the dim room the surgeon's eyes blackened; he watched Martha put her hands up to her hair - saw how her green dress pulled at the seam beneath her arm; he moved towards her, and she turned away to the foot of the stairs. 'Come with me' she said, reaching for him: 'Come up with me.'

Does anyone else agree that this is an important turning point? Are there others in the last quarter of the book that I have still to read?

Did you like Francis being used to describe the events or would you have preferred to see it from Cora/Williams or Martha's/Lukes perspective? Did you like the third person perspective or would you have preferred to read it from a first person perspective?

I read this in July, nearly 6 months ago, and don't remember having any reactions to this. It made sense that Francis, being a very observant boy, would be the describer (is that a word?).
Very nice detailed observations Maria!

Barbara wrote: "I read this in July, nearly 6 months ago, and don't remember having any reactions to this. It made sense that Francis, being a very observant boy, would be the describer (is that a word?).
Very nic..."

Same happened to me the first time I read it, Barbara. I reread this Chapter on a Friends recommendation and suddenly I think I may be getting why people love this book so much.

I think I am reading this book too quickly and missing the point of what is happening and why it is so beloved. So I might just read a small section slowly every day until I complete the last 25% of it.

Maria wrote: "Barbara wrote: "I read this in July, nearly 6 months ago, and don't remember having any reactions to this. It made sense that Francis, being a very observant boy, would be the describer (is that a ..."

It is wonderful that you are making such a concerted effort. A 2016 book I loved was A Little Life which some people who I admire on GR, hated. It baffles me but it is part of the chemistry of a book. Also, I prefer to read books when they are first out before there is loads of hype.

I think it's best to go into a book with as little expectation as possible. I read The Well last year. I had bought it a few years ago on a whim - then saw the Goodreads reviews and was put off. I ended up really enjoying it when I read it though as I no longer remembered much about why others hadn't taken to it and could form my own impression.

As to a little life. I have it on my TBR shelf to read on a work colleague's recommendation. She said she couldn't get the characters out of her head and fully understood why some people didn't like it but that I should absolutely read it anyway.

Maria wrote: "I think it's best to go into a book with as little expectation as possible. I read The Well last year. I had bought it a few years ago on a whim - then saw the Goodreads reviews and..."

I bought A Little Life for the NYC setting. Allan is really the expert on NYC books, but they often appeal to me. I don't think there is another city that beats it for stories and a soul of its own.

I appreciate you pointing out that Francis is autistic. I found his behavior when William's friend was laying there dying that he didn't go get help troubling. He just lay there while he died. It was so odd to me.

Barbara wrote: "Maria wrote: "I think it's best to go into a book with as little expectation as possible. I read The Well last year. I had bought it a few years ago on a whim - then saw the Goodrea..."

Speaking of New York. I have Christodora lined up on the TBR as well. So many good books waiting to be read!

Susan wrote: "I appreciate you pointing out that Francis is autistic. I found his behavior when William's friend was laying there dying that he didn't go get help troubling. He just lay there while he died. It w..."

I agree. He is a bit of a cold one Susan. I haven't come across many heartwarming characters yet except maybe Joanna and her desire to emulate Cora and be a scientist or engineer or lawyer or politician etc. Stella is lovely too but her obsession with the colour blue feels very strange. Not sure why this would be a symptom of TB?

just finished and enjoyed, more than I thought i would after 100 pages - 4 stars

felt there were a really interesting set of characters, well developed through the story, not just the Cora and William
liked Martha and how she built soft power through influencing men in positions of power by virtue of their wealth
Stella dealing with her illness, the absence of her children and the growing relationship between her husband and Cora
the conflicting and complimentary relationship between Luke and Spencer

thought the letters throughout worked very well to give the changing tone in the various relationships

not sure it completely lived up to the hype, the pace of the story dipped somewhat for me about a third way in, but felt I got enough from the characters to keep my attention

While I was really not a fan of this, I think I hated the prose style in fact, I have to agree the letters were a highlight and rather looked forward to reading those parts.

Cphe wrote: "I was so disappointed in this when so many seem to like it. I'm wondering now if it's just me."

Readers respond to novels differently, and no one will react the exact same way to any one novel. That’s what I think makes reading and book talk so interesting. What about the novel did you find dissappointing, Cphe?

Maria wrote: "I am still only 75% through but I reckon that part 2 of the June Chapter is probably going to be the most pivotal in all the relationships of the Characters.

In this one William and Cora first un..."

Really interesting questions, Maria. I think having Francis describe the physical contact between Cora and Will is an interesting decision from the author. Cora often talks about how she wants to experience life almost solely as an intellect and almost solely through her rationality. For so much of the book, she seems to me divorced entirely from her body. By having Francis describe the physical connection between Cora and Will, it underscored to me how foreign the experience was for Cora. I’m also imagining, from what was alluded throughout the novel, that Francis was unlikely to have observed any genuine affection or sexual longing expressed by Cora and Michael.

Cphe wrote: "Promised much but just didn't deliver for me. In some ways i felt the author tried too hard.

The synopsis sounded right for me, something I would enjoy. I finished and then sat bemused because I s..."

Frankly, I am relieved, Cphe. I thought it was just me.

I finally posted my review with why I thought I should have liked this book and why I think didn't.



https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Ok, I finished this but I have to say that I am completely bemused as to why people would be raving about it! I really didn't engage with any of the characters, I thought Cora was just weird. Like Maria above, I should have liked her (being a scientist myself) but I just didn't understand her detachment from everyone. Francis was probably autistic but still was a 'bit creepy' as Susan mentioned (in the other thread?). The most sympathy I had was for Will but that was lessened by his temper tantrums.
My favourite character was Tom Taylor - the cripple in Colchester!

I have noticed a lot of my GR friends who rave about it are English - I wonder if there is something in her use of the language that speaks to others more than the rest of us?

Just finished today. Disappointed. I really, really expected a great book, and the first quarter set me off just for that but it all went downhill rather fast and never bounced back.
the characters left me absolutely indifferent, which is most disappointing, because in the book you look for one or more to be intrigued by, to be challenged, to be amused or amazed by... here, Cora became irritating and after that i did not care.
the language part of it was a letdown for me too. all the references to Dickens and all the praise to the style... again, it started nicely, interesting, but then felt monotonous and at time felt forced, like if the author tried too hard to produce some sophisticated originality... So, no, it did not work for me.

As people often comment after the read is technically over,and GRI leaves these links open so the conversation can continue, can I encourage those who loved this book (and they are in the majority of my respected GR and BookTube friends) to put us naysayers to rights and explain what a good book it is. Obviously, if you don't like it please comment why as well :)

I would like to sincerely apologise to the person to whom I may have given offense to over not liking this book and my request to them to share his/her feelings to the contrary in the discussion thread. There was no harm meant and only good wishes are being sent to you on your reading journey.

I think it might be a bit of a marmite book.


In fairness ten of my GR friends expressed disappointment with this book and 29 (including one of my favourite authors) stated they loved it. Usually because of the beautiful prose.

Maria wrote: "I think it might be a bit of a marmite book.


In fairness ten of my GR friends expressed disappointment with this book and 29 (including one of my favourite authors) stated they loved it. Usually ..."
Maria,
One of the things I found about this book is, in my opinion, it never really lived up to the blurb on the back of the book. Cora didn't 'go looking for the Essex Serpent', she just tramped around the countryside a bit, mostly avoiding her son who she left in the care of anyone and everyone. Never once did I read that she was doing any actual research or searching. The day that she went to the school, there is some mention of fossils that she had found but nothing ever about what they were, or how they might relate to the serpent. I felt quite cheated by this as the Essex Serpent seemed not to really figure in the story except as a 'by-the-way'.
What do you think?

I had read enough reviews before reading the book to know that she didn't really make a good job of searching for the Serpent. But I agree it would have been nice to read how she went about searching for fossils - there was that kind of detail for the medical sections. So why was this left out?

I think Cora leaving her son behind was pretty typical of the Era. There was a passage somewhere near the beginning where he Husband is surprised that she should want to nurse her baby herself and not leave it to a nanny. So that I forgive this as it's true to the period.

However, I just don't quite understand why everyone was in love with her. Surely her let's face it 21st century attitudes must have irritated at least one Victorian Lady/Gentleman?

My biggest problem though is I don't buy into and didn't like central love story/friendship. At this I am at great odds with the person who first recommend this book to me who said that this was one of the most moving thought-provoking friendships he had read in 2016. And he reads a lot!

Declan wrote: "I'll be finished today, Maria, but I've been a little disappointed with it since around 130.

I'd be really interested in hearing why readers thought is was worth 4* or 5*."

I thought the novel was atmospheric, and I really liked the writing style, Declan. There were a number of aspects that caught me: the multiple plot lines, the color imagery, the prickly relationships among various characters, and I liked the tension depicted by the conflicts between faith and science, as well as various forms of love and friendship. Cora, as a character, held my attention because she was (or tried to be) so distant and cerebral. The hints of her physical abuse from her husband made it convincing to me that she maintained such apparent walls [whether she was oblivious to them, or not] between herself and others. I liked, too, that there was some ambiguity at the end of the novel, even though the pov was third-person omniscient. The book reminded me, in spots, of other authors I admire, yes, Dickens, as well as Kate Chopin, bits of Hardy, although not as bleak as most of his novels, a little bit of Wharton. I know several people have talked about whether they cared for or liked the characters—I’m not sure whether I do or not, but I found all of them interesting. I also hadn’t heard or read much hype about the novel, so I think that was a factor, too, that I didn’t have the burden of high anticipation. That often complicates my reading experiences. I remember years ago, there was all kinds of press about Jonathan Franzen’s Freedom (the next great American novel, blah, blah, blah), and so I read it with extremely high expectations. But I disliked the novel—and was annoyed at all the hype it was given. [I had heard at the time that Franzen’s was an American counterpart to Eliot’s Middlemarch...That should have been my first warning. :). ] I enjoyed the whole of the reading experience for this one, so that’s why I gave it lots of stars.

Impressive synopsis and review there Cathleen. Glad you enjoyed it. I would definitely agree with the point that too much hype and expectation can sometimes spoil a reading experience.

I agree with you, Cathleen, about Jonathan Franzen. I tried reading him but his style put me off completely. He had one sentence that took up all the page. It was so pretentious and smug. I set the book aside and thought life is just too short.

I never connected with the book, Maria. The writing was beautiful but I felt like the author was showing off a little bit too. Look at what a great writer I am. I don't have to spend the time developing the characters.

It's been a while since I read this novel, but the thing that I remember liking about it most was the fact that it dealt with issues that we associate with modern times in an historical context - I'm talking sexuality, learning disability, infidelity - timeless issues I know, but issues that were skirted around in Victorian novels of the time for obvious reasons.