CanadianContent discussion

A place to discuss The Marrow Thieves

I have this on hold at the library. My sister teaches Jr. High and used this book for her English class. I'll be interested in hearing everyone's opinion.

Megan wrote: "The Marrow Thieves - I'll be interested in hearing everyone's opinion."

@ Megan - there are a number of comments about The Marrow Thieves under Canada Reads Longlist and also the last 1 or 2 Friday Spine Crackers. @Shannon wanted to hear more as well and got the discussion started.

@Megan - I seem to be the lone advocate for this book. Although it didn't immediately grab me as much as some other works, I really appreciated the way the author uses dystopian fiction to draw young readers to the issues facing Indigenous people. I think it is almost like tricking youth into learning about something that they would otherwise not be interested in. I think the book does a good job opening eyes of a younger audience. Also it is pretty short so not a slog in my opinion but others disagree. If you do read it, I would like to hear your thoughts. :)

@shannon it’s ready for me to pickup at the library so I’ll be starting this weekend. Thank you for you thoughts, you basically said what my teacher sister said. I’ll keep you posted.

I think with The Marrow Thieves the content is interesting but the writing for me totally falls flat.

This is a book I feel bad about not liking. As I've said elsewhere, I like the idea of it, but it didn't end up being an enjoyable read for me.

@ Shannon - I too enjoyed the book. Guess you missed my post 152 on Jan 17/2018 in the Canada Reads Long List Discussion Thread. There were a number of comments there, including your own, about The Marrow Thieves which is why I suggested Megan check it out since she was interested in reading what others thought.

Here's what I had to say there:

message 152: by Mj Jan 17, 2018 09:57AM

I too read The Marrow Thieves. Found it a quick and enjoyed it. Am mulling over how I want to rate it and how to write an appropriate review i.e. whether to benchmark the book using high calibre adult fiction books or to use different expectations for a Young Adult book (something I rarely read.) Made some notes and hope to do a full review soon.

I thought The Marrow Thieves' story line built rather slowly and without the intensity I would have expected from people running for their lives, but intensity did start to build very well and I thought there was a strong emotional ending. I felt an undercurrent of hope and good feelings throughout the story that contrasted nicely with the negative factors in the book.

I think Cherie Dimaline perhaps intentionally did the slow build and used good feelings to engage younger readers without turning them off. Like Shannon mentioned, I think the use of fantasy/sci fi was a good way to attract the YA fans. The general message got put out there in a fantasy/sci fi genre that many like to read. Whether it makes the short list or not might depend about the age and genre preference of the defender. I thought it was a 3 1/2 star read and am still wavering on rounding up or rounding down and how to rate a YA book vis a vis Adult fiction.

Feb 1st edit - As of today I am leaning to rounding up to 4 stars on Goodreads.

@ Susan - no need to feel badly. Sharing book discussions wouldn't be very interesting if we each felt the same way. Makes the discussions richer for everyone. :-)

Thanks MJ! Totally forgot but I did see this initially and I totally agree about the lack of intensity when running for their lives!!!!

Thanks for sharing. :)

Shannon wrote: "@Megan - I seem to be the lone advocate for this book. Although it didn't immediately grab me as much as some other works, I really appreciated the way the author uses dystopian fiction to draw you..."

I read this book about a month back, before the long list announcement. So, I didn't read it with CR in mind. Looking back at my notes, I gave it 4 stars and thought it was a good YA book. It reminded me a lot of X-men and it's spin-off TV series, "The Gifted' (a bunch of gifted kids running, being hunted by the government in order to harvest their powers for the greater good) and it is a brilliant way of introducing the trauma of residential schools to YA audience. I agree with some of the earlier views that the concept is stronger than the execution. I, also, had issues with the pacing and the writing. In some places, the writing is almost lyrical - mostly when she is describing nature and indigenous culture - and other places it just falls flat. The 'science' part of this sci-fi really was lacking - how are dreams and bone marrow connected and how the whole school thing works is not fully explored and mostly happens off-page. The characters themselves a bit stereotypical. The intensity did pick up in the second half and I liked some of the questions brought up by the book like how a society/government makes decisions for the 'greater good' and how all of us are capable of horrors to survive.

As far as Canada Reads goes, I think it will be this year's Company Town. Jully Black seems to be the most forceful of the champions and she can take the book deep just with her passion. But then again, anything can happen in CR and that is the fun of it.

So I just finished reading this book . I really enjoyed it and shed a tear at the end. The dystopia is almost beside the point. I felt that this book was a futuristic retelling of Canada’s residential school history. In that respect this book for me was brilliant. I think this book will spark a lot of debate on Canada reads.

I just finished it as well but my opinion differs greatly. My mother once told me “if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing at all” so I will follow her advice here.

Just started in on this book. I read and enjoyed Cherie Dimaline's other book, The Girl Who Grew a Galaxy, which I enjoyed. I'm liking Marrow Thieves so far but it is definitely a YA book. I have to keep reminding myself to ask if I would have enjoyed this book in high school, and not compare it to books I've read as an adult.

@ Anne - Agree. I had some difficulty deciding how to rate the book. e.g. versus other YA books (even though I haven't read many) or versus Adult Literary books. Decided on the former as genres are so different from each other so I think comparing apples to apples makes some sense.

Found an interesting interview with Cherie Dimaline in The Star about The Marrow Thieves you might be interested in. Dimaline explains why she chose to write the story as YA and the writing style(s)) she thinks are necessary to appeal to this age group.

Sheds some light on Dimaline's YA approach in the book - different from the approach required than when writing for adults.

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment...

@MJ thanks, I'll check it out. I think I heard an interview with her on a CBC show as well.

After reading the part of the book that has troubled many people, I want to re-listen to the Canada Reads debate when When Everything Feels Like the Movies was in the short list to see how the discussions around the explicitness of that book went over. Comparing the two books, which are both YA novels, When Everything Feels Like the Movies was very explicit and parts were very traumatic, whereas this book was not explicit.

I just finished this book, and I really enjoyed it in the end. For a YA novel it was interesting and the story chugged along. I think it will perform favourably if it is well-defended.

I finished reading this last night and gave it a four star rating. I agree with other readers that this is a book about issues facing Indigenous people but I also think it is so much more. I feel that Dimaline touches on issues that are relevant to everyone - things like global warming, pollution of our water sources and a total disrespect for Mother Nature. Currently in BC there has been some controversy over the trans mountain pipeline and Dimaline mentions in ‘The marrow thieves’ that the pipelines have burst and polluted the Great Lakes. We need books like ‘The marrow thieves’ to start a discussion of how we as Canadians can learn to live in harmony with the Earth and by working with Indigenous people we can learn from and work together towards a more clean and sustainable future.

@Sonia that's interesting you made the connection to the BC/Alberta dispute -- I made a similar connection but in relation to American War. I wonder where the dispute will be by the time the debates happen, and if it will come up. Realistically, it could be tangentially related to Forgiveness too, since BC shipped a number of its Japanese residents off the coast and into Alberta, which wasn't popular either.

@ Sonia - you bring up some good points about what a great starting point The Marrow Thieves is for discussion especially wrt humanity's custody of the Mother Earth. I hope the discussion happens.....if not on Canada Reads....at least with Dimaline's target group - the future caretakers. Just hope The Marrow Thieves isn't pidgeon-holed as too simple and too YA. Like you said - it is so much more.

I feel like this book is going to pack an emotional punch at the debates considering what has been happening in the courts lately. This book shows how settlers view indigenous people and it’s a hard look in the mirror we as Canadians need.

Also yes it’s been interesting being in Alberta right now, the balance between economy and environment is a Constant struggle. Luckily Alberta is starting to diversify its economy...slowly but surely....

Anne wrote: "@Sonia that's interesting you made the connection to the BC/Alberta dispute -- I made a similar connection but in relation to American War. I wonder where the dispute will be by the time the debate..."

Anne I have American War on hold at the library and am looking forward to reading it.
It will be interesting to follow the BC/Alberta dispute - just today on the news I heard that the Alberta premier has suspended the ban on BC wine for now anyway and a truce has been called between the two provinces.

I just finished The Marrow Thieves and liked it. I read it thinking of my daughter and whether it would be engaging to her age group. Like others have mentioned, it is a starting point, a time when issues are highlighted through fiction and hopefully would encourage the YA crowd to understand and learn more about residential schools and indigenous history.

Did it not bother anyone that the science behind needing bone marrow to dream is never explained? Not even remotely. It's just put out there as fact we're suppose to accept without any reasonable explanation. The more I think about it the more I am irked that this is the book on Canada Reads when a book like Seven Fallen Feathers: Racism, Death, and Hard Truths in a Northern City is ignored. One is pure fantasy while the other is true fact. We need to open our eyes to what is happening in our country NOW.

@Louise - if i ponder about the bone marrow/dream details, it is curious but I read it trying to view it from the vantage of my YA self and focused more on the characters and their experiences.

I learned a lot from Seven Fallen Feathers and do think it would have been a great book for CR. I am glad it won the Rogers Prize and hope that this encourages more Canadians to learn from it.

Maybe that's my problem. I did not read it from a YA point of view but rather from a Canada Reads point of view. It falls short the way I look at it :-)

@ Louise - In answer to your question, about wondering about the science behind bone marrow/dreams - it never crossed my mind to wonder about the science. I figured the book was "fiction" and just went with the premise that facts and research weren't required. Although not usually a dystopian fiction reader, my understanding of "dystopian is that it is all about "imagination" and "possibilities." I thought bone marrow/dreams was a pretty good concept to start a good discussion about aboriginal values. If the book was a non-fiction it would have been a different story and I would have been looking for facts, reasoning and research.

I see your disappointment about Seven Fallen Feathers: Racism, Death, and Hard Truths in a Northern City not making the Short List but there are other great candidates that didn't make it. Unfortunately only 5 books move forward and the 5 defenders chose the 5 books that resonated the most with them and what resonates with us doesn't necessarily resonate with them. In addition to Seven Fall Feathers, other excellent books like Brother, Suzanne, Scarborough, Tomboy Survival Guide etcetera didn't make the short list. Unfortunately, in competitions there are winners and losers, cheering and disappointment.

I agree that Seven Fallen Feathers is an important book for Canadians to read. Fortunately, there are a number of ways that Canadian awards and reviews draw attention to Canadian books, The RBC Prize for Non-Fiction (2018) and other nominations for the book will do this for Seven Fallen Feathers.

Like you, I read the Canada Reads long list from my perspective as an adult. Given the age of the defenders, I suspect they've done the same to choose the short listed book they want to defend. Am hoping that the CR discussions won't be pigeon-holing books into genres or age brackets but rather discuss the issues that the books raise.

Even if it’s fiction, it has to be believable. Not necessarily true facts but at least some plausible explanation is in order IMO.

Louise,

With respect to your statement above - you're definitely entitled to your personal preference of plausibility and believability from fiction as well as non-fiction, it's just not my expectation from fiction.

Just a reminder, I was only answering your question about whether others wondered about the science/reasonable explanation behind bone marrow/dreams and my expectations were different from yours based on what I understand fiction to be.

Everything I've ever read, learned, studied or googled describes fiction using words like imaginary events and people, invention or fabrication as opposed to fact, derived from imagination—in other words, not based strictly on history or fact. For these reasons, I wasn't looking for explanations for things brought up in The Marrow Thieves.

Perhaps it's just a question of different tastes and expectations, or maybe you were just trying to get some discussion going and I interpreted your question literally and responded accordingly. :-)

I too wondered about the bone marrow. One possible reason that we learn nothing about the science regarding the connection between bone marrow and dreaming is that Frenchie, our narrator doesn't know what it is - he only knows that indigenous people are being hunted for their bone marrow. When indigenous children were taken away from their parents to be put into residential schools, did they know what awaited them?
It's usually the people in power that hold the secrets of science and the hunted have minimum access to this science. That's just my take on it anyway;)

@sonia I liked you last comment about how there are secrets because people in power don’t want you to know, it’s a very valid point in this book. There is meant to be chaos and fear, that’s what keeps control for those who want it.
When I read this book I felt that the reason why was almost beside the point, it just is so how are we dealing with it? How are we surviving? How are we keeping our traditions and foundation when everything is crumbling?
The scene with the grandma figure with the strength of the ancestors for me was very powerful, you can try and strip us of everything but our bodies and souls have the memory of our ancestors in them.

Just reading through this thread now as I'm about halfway through the book. As a YA book, it isn't bad. I don't think books in this genre ever provide great detail about how the dystopian world came to be. The reader just has to accept it. So I'll go with the bone marrow thing.

What makes less sense to me, is why only indigenous people can dream when they were living and working in the polluted cities along with everyone else. Is it a genetic difference, like the enzyme for breaking down alcohol? I don't see (so far) that it's adequately explained.

The other thing I'm not impressed with is some of the adult content. YA books are often read by middle graders who are reading above grade level. I see them in my kids' Scholastic book orders all the time. This book could definitely have a wider audience if not for some of the sexual scenes. There are ways to "soften the blow" so that adult readers know what's happening without younger readers getting too many details.

I finished this book last night and while I may not feel as strongly about it as @Louise, I do have a lot of unanswered questions.

Allison ༻hikes the bookwoods༺ wrote: "I finished this book last night and while I may not feel as strongly about it as @Louise, I do have a lot of unanswered questions."

I always have strong opinions on everything, hahaha.

Nothing wrong with that @Louise!!

YA perspective of the cover model: http://www.cbc.ca/books/canadareads/t...

Here is a link to an event with Cheri Dimaline in Halifax: http://www.cbc.ca/books/canadareads/y...

Sadly, I was supposed to see her this morning at Laurier University but after driving to Waterloo found that she was under the weather and was not able to make it. Not all was lost, I ended up sitting in on an Indigenous Fiction lecture listening to insights on her book.

a video clip of author and debater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0tnL...

I found similarities to American War — that people are people, all capable of both good and evil. It’s motivation and “clan,” “belonging” that pushes us toward evil and pain. “Not every Indian is an Indian” is a line in Marrow Thieves. I remember a line in American War that was similar, that not every southerner is an southerner."

Check this out: http://www.cbc.ca/books/cherie-dimali...

I am Looking forward to meeting this author on Sunday at the Fold festival too.

I was disappointed by The Marrow Thieves. The premise is intriguing - in a world crippled by global warming and running out of fresh water, people have lost the ability to dream – except the Indigenous people of North America whose capacity to dream is literally in the marrow of their bones.

So what is my problem with the novel? The scenario I described sits in the background and is present more by inference that anything else.

The entire novel centers on a group of Indigenous people on the run heading north in Ontario, Canada. They have occasional encounters with “recruiters” and others on the run like they are. The story is told from the perspective of teenage Frenchie who, for my tastes, fall shorts as the character that drives the narrative.

Let me be clear. I am not saying that “The Marrow Thieves” is not a bad novel. In my humble opinion, it just is not anything special.

Another award for The Marrow Thieves: https://www.cbc.ca/books/trish-salah-...

It has also been announced as One Book One London.

That's great! I really enjoyed this book. I was a bit skeptical in the beginning - I was worried that the tie to the residential schools was too contrived, but I ended up enjoying the characters and the writing. I'm not surprised that it's been nominated for another award.