Goodreads Ireland discussion

Here is a thread for comments with spoilers

A couple of newspaper reviews I liked

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/bo...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/boo...

and some reading group questions posted by the publisher
https://www.readinggroupguides.com/re...

and if, like me, you had difficulty with the chronological order of events, I found this on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_Ste...

I really like this book, even on second reading when I knew the story. I think it appeals to me because so much is left unexplained.

I wonder what others think of Trond’s father? He deliberately leaves it to Franz to tell Trond about his wartime activity and his earlier disappearance with Jon’s mother, and father and son never discuss it between them though the father must have known that Franz had spoken to his son. Was he trying to stop his son losing faith in him as a hero and keep his new love secret? What a shame that he wouldn’t include Trond in his new life with Jon’s mother, if that is what his new life is? The father’s abandonment of his family is absolute and seems premeditated, the way he does it is so mean, and Trond is too hurt to seek him out as an adult.

What sort of life does Trond’s father go on to lead? Lars doesn’t mention him and Trond doesn’t ask.

I liked the fact that the two damaged men, Trond and Lars, are healing each other to an extent and are likely to be friends from now on and that Trond is going to be welcoming his daughters in his life. Or at least that’s how I read it.

A great book provides a canvas and outline for our minds to create images and emotions. So I agree with you Sue that with so much left unexplained you have the opportunity to create your own narrative. It is one of the wonderful aspects of this book.

I think everything we know about the father is that he is a very selfish man. I don't think he cares what his son or anyone else thinks of him and the sense is that he has completely moved on to a new life. Yes, it looks premeditated and he had already removed himself from his wife and daughter with very little sense of loss. Did he play Trond?

What I wonder is what you think of Trond. Are their elements of a personality disorder? He has a real issue showing emotion, he seems to have a social engagement problem and seems to obsess about the meaning of things. In particular, can you see him on the Autism spectrum?

I hadn't considered a personality disorder beyond the fact that he was damaged by his idolised father's abandonment of him. My reading of it was that he went through his adult life as though he was 'completely fine' - two marriages, two children, what sounds a good enough job, plenty of overseas travel - and then when his wife dies, his daughters grown up and he reaches retirement age he decides he doesn't want to keep up appearances any more and withdraws to contemplate his life, and lick his wounds. His withdrawal from his daughters echoes his early experience. Lars turning out to be living on his doorstep brought all the hurt flooding back but ultimately saves him.

I love a book that creates an opportunity to extend our own visions around the blueprint laid down by the author. From the outset of the book, I just felt that Trond was a lot more than just shy, he was slightly emotionally detached, and his thought processes where more black and white than normal. For example, when he was at the graveside knowing that the brother of his best friend was being buried, watching Lars breakdown, and Jon become distant, his thought was “I remember thinking that we would never go out stealing horses together again, and it made me sadder than anything”. Not only was he thinking about something off on a tangent but he was prioritising it over the grief all around him.

Very clearly his father’s abandonment has caused him significant life-long issues and to finally be face-to-face with Lars who he wonders ‘Did you take the place that was rightfully mine? Did you have years out of my life that I should have lived?’ is a difficult one to handle. I’m not sure how I would play that one out.

The interaction with his daughter I find aberrant. Having 2 adult daughters I just can’t imagine feeling detached from them, and worse, actually letting them know that I’m uncomfortable showing them affection. That to me is another mental problem plus he’s also OCD.

Freud would have a field-day. :) If not with Trond then with me. LOL

Interesting to read the comments here. While reading the book, I had a feeling on occasion that I had missed something, given the unanswered questions that are there. I'm wondering if the wartime experience, particularly with the man from Oslo's death, scarred Trond's father in a way that he became the person that he did - isn't there something about damaging wartime experience meaning that those that live it can only relate to others that have also lived it - possibly the catalyst for the relationship with Jon's mother. Or did that occur when they escaped into Sweden - where I assume they had to stay until the end of the war?

I was bemused about Trond's lack of contact with his children, but then aside from having been away from home a lot during his working life he had had the traumatic experience of the car crash and death of his wife himself, so I'm wondering was this a mix of having been used to lack of contact alongside the desire to avoid thinking about what he had lost at the end of that period of his life.

I loved the evocative nature of the writing when it came to sense of place, both in the environment of the surrounding area and in the house itself. Personally, the peace and quiet of such an existence was appealing to me, the notion of reading beside the fire with the dog at my feet each dark night etc - not sure what that says about me!

Just gathering my thoughts I suppose, and will aim to engage with any discussion that occurs in the thread as best I can!

I'm so glad you enjoyed the book, Allan.
I think you're right about Trond's father. It's not as though he and Jon's mother seemed to be planning to run away together until the failed exfiltration of the man from Oslo meant they had to. Unless I missed something I don't think we know what they did for the remainder of the war until Trond's father returns to the flat in Oslo. I was assuming that Jon's mother returned to the village around the same time. I wonder how their joint departure affected the village - no reprisals on Jon's family and the other inhabitants from the Germans? Wouldn't they have been looking for the culprit for the bridge explosion? I take your point about the shared traumatic experience bonding the two of them, eventually to the break-up of Trond's family, though I'm not sure whether Trond's father actually moves in with Jon's mother and the boys. Trond doesn't ask and Lars doesn't say.
I loved the landscape too, in fact I'd like that cottage myself.

For some, it may leave open-ended questions but I think that the writing style that allows us to fill in the missing pieces makes reading a book like this so personal. It takes an amazing craft to tell a complete story but never be so blunt to just state all the facts. Just gradually reveal the character and tease into some suggestions of other character traits. I think Trond is dealt with this way.

Maybe after Trond's father and Jon's Mother's exile together there was a gaping hole in their lives and they just needed to be with each other. The exile together built a history and probably a psychological and emotional bind. What Trond had to deal with was the decision of a father to love another person more than his son. Does this completely explain Trond's character? Experience or experience+? We could create any background story for the father but it's clear to me that he never seemed to be a family man.

I also agree with you both on the imagery of the landscape, superbly done.

i think the relationship between trond and jon with their respective parents, this for both of them was a betrayel. Neither Trond or Lars have talked to the respective parents in a long time, both prefering the loyalty of their dogs. For Trond, I think there is a repeating in the behaviour of his father abandoning him, his mother and sister as to who he didn't want to be found by his own daughter.

Trond seems to be a person who wants boundaries in live and space between them, Trond is a very solitary character.

Overall I quite liked this book

You're right, Phil, I hadn't really focused on Jon and the break-up of his family. It is sad that his relationship with Lars couldn't survive and that he could only push Lars out of the family farm. I like the idea that Lars and Trond will build a friendship.
I'm glad you liked the book. I'm looking forward to seeing what next month's choice turns out to be.

I have posted my review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Unlike others, I felt this book left just a bit too much to the imagination. I would have preferred a bit more information regarding what happened to Trond's father and Lars' mother after that summer. Why was there so little in the Swedish account when Trond and his mother went to get the logging money? Had Trond's father not even looked before he told them about it? Was it just the logs getting stuck in the stream or was there more to it?
Just a few too many questions at the end of a book for me to give it more than 3 stars.