Reading the 20th Century discussion

There's been some discussion of Iris Murdoch in the thread for the buddy read of The Angry Years, so here is a thread to discuss her work.



So far, 3 of us have expressed an interest in a buddy read of her novel The Bell - would anyone else like to join in?

I haven't had much reading time and I a bit (!) behind at the moment, Judy. I will join in if I can, as I've never read anything by her.

I am (as ever) game for the caper

Just out of interest, when are thinking of reading The Bell?

How about April 2018?


Here's how the schedule currently looks....

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I must say it sounds most interesting....

The Bell by Iris Murdoch

A lay community of thoroughly mixed-up people is encamped outside Imber Abbey, home of an enclosed order of nuns. A new bell, legendary symbol of religion and magic, is rediscovered. Dora Greenfield, erring wife, returns to her husband. Michael Mead, leader of the community, is confronted by Nick Fawley, with whom he had disastrous homosexual relations, while the wise old Abbess watches and prays and exercises discreet authority. And everyone, or almost everyone, hopes to be saved, whatever that may mean...Iris Murdoch's funny and sad novel is about religion, the fight between good and evil, and the terrible accidents of human frailty.

It does look interesting. I will do my best to fit it in.

The Bell was my first Murdoch and was so long ago that I ought to reread it. I have read lots of her novels...

OK then - April 2018 it is


Hoping you will join in too for our buddy read The Bell by Iris Murdoch in mid April 2018

I will be reading it again.
Vintage reprinted a lot of Murdoch's novels in the early 2000s, which is when I read most of them. The others were twenty years before that.

I love Vintage books Val. Almost always a guarantee of quality - and usually with lovely covers too.


I'm very excited about my first foray into the literary world of Murdoch. I hope I haven't set my expectations too high.

Wonderful news Manda - see you there

I've just been searching for lists of the best books by Iris Murdoch and came across this one....


https://www.ranker.com/list/best-iris...

Current buddy read The Bell is at number 4, with the number 1 slot taken by....

A Word Child



Anyone read it?

Or indeed have any other comments on the rankings, or the titles included?

Yes, I have read it, but I don't remember it very well. I would really struggle to rank all of the 16 I have read!

I did like The Black Prince, The Sea, the Sea and The Unicorn. The only one I really didn't get on with was Bruno's Dream.

Thanks Hugh - that's very helpful

I looked at some titles by her and thought, The Sea, the Sea looked interesting. I never noticed, "A Word Child," but, as the Michael part of "The Bell," was so well written, I think it has obvious potential.

Thanks Susan. I'll keep you posted. I plan to read more books by her.

Susan wrote: "One of our members (sorry, I cannot remember who) said the earlier books were more realistic, so there seems to be a difference in her early, and later, writing. Perhaps someone can enlighten us."

Here's Miles Kington, in 2002, being very dismissive of Iris's work....

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...

....it seems that the backlash against Iris Murdoch, as a writer, is under way at last.

It couldn't come too soon for me. I started having deep reservations about her work as soon as I met it. Not from the very start, actually, as I read her first novel first, Under The Net, and enjoyed that. I can't remember anything about it now, except that it seemed quite sparky and was dedicated by Murdoch to Raymond Queneau. That was a huge plus for me, because the quirky, oblique, playful Queneau was, and still is, one of my favourite writers, so I thought that anyone who dedicated a book to him must be all right.

I never enjoyed a book of hers again......

These IM quotes certainly resonate with me....


Far from viewing fiction as another and lesser way of dealing with philosophical questions, Iris Murdoch argued that literature was meant ''to be grasped by enjoyment,'' and that the art of the tale was ''a fundamental form of thought'' in its own right.

The ideal reader, she told one interviewer, was ''someone who likes a jolly good yarn and enjoys thinking about the book as well, about the moral issues.'

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytim...

I was going to comment on Murdoch a few days ago when the last Backlisted came out but got distracted:

https://www.backlisted.fm/episodes/25...

I have not read any Murdoch in awhile but I am feeling I would like to read another of hers sometime later in the year. I have many to read. I have only read five of her books. I figured I would post to generate some interest.

Hi Sam, which ones have you read? 🙂

I enjoyed the pod but must confess it didn't fill me with enthusiasm to dig further into her bibliography.


I did enjoy The Bell a few years back and learned a lot from the episode of Backlisted

Paula wrote: "Hi Sam, which ones have you read? 🙂"
Bruno's Dream
The Unicorn
The Sandcastle
The Black Prince
The Sea, the Sea
I attempted The Sacred and Profane Love Machine
and The Flight from the Enchanter way back in my youth but did not read enough of them to remember nevermind appreciate them.

For me:

Bruno's Dream
The Green Knight
The Book and the Brotherhood
The Sea, the Sea

I’d like to read more 🙂

I've never managed to get through one of her books. If there were a buddy read, I feel sure that would change!

I've never read her. The Sea, the Sea is on my unread Booker list to get to at some point.

I gave her the big swerve when she was alive and producing her work . I'd filed it under " too difficult " along with Lessing, Byatt , Gordimer and Piercy . In those days the demands of work and family cleaned my brain out and I was maintained by genre fiction .

Now I've retired so that one of those demands has gone , leaving only the labour of family, so I've picked her up and loved what I've read

The Sea , The Sea
Under the Net .

I love her farcical tendencies , the terrible but compelling anti heroes in both books and the way she pushes plot and characterisation to its limits . Place is a strong character in both novels but in The Sea The Sea it acts as the engine of the whole work .

All this to say she creates an uncertain reading experience , full of sudden shifts and impulses , but I feel in safe hands : like being on a stormy sea in a lifeboat .

I've only read The Sea, The Sea and that was a long time ago and I didn't really click with it so haven't gone back to Murdoch.

We're always happy to set up a buddy read thread if some of you want it and you don't need a mod involved. We would just ask that someone takes a lead role to ensure the read happens as agreed.

I've read all her novels and enjoyed them all, though some more than others. I love the groups of people she creates and the way she describes their relationships. My only regret is that I read them at a time when I wasn't writing reviews for what I was reading. I've also read some biopics about her and seen the film where Kate Winslet plays the young Iris, Judi Dench plays the older Iris, and Jim Broadbent plays her husband.

A recurring character in her novels is the figure of the "enchanter", a charismatic person who is sometimes the fulcrum of the group, often with negative characteristics, who is thought to be the representation of the writer Elias Canetti.

I've only read The Bell I would like to read her in order. Am planning, at some time, to read her first novel Under the Net which was published in 1954.

Set in a part of London where struggling writers rub shoulders with successful bookies, and film starlets with frantic philosophers. The hero, Jake Donaghue, is captivated by a majestic philosopher, Hugo Belfounder, whose profound reflections prompt the title - under the net of language.

If anybody wants a buddy read then I would happily lead it but I have a lot of books on at the moment, so not for a couple of months.

If anyone is interested in a buddy read of The Sea, the Sea anytime this year I'd join in. Sounds like that's the one most have already read, though.

I’ve just read Hester’s five star review and I’m sold


If you want to do it Susan then I’m in. May 2026?

Yay! Let's do it. I can set up a thread if you add it, Nigeyb?

Rose, I think I will see how we get on, but I would like to read The Sea, The Sea at some time.

Wow lots of posts since I started writing mine which was interrupted by dog wishing to go out, but I am posting it anyway.

I was giving thought to what books I might want to read and when as well. Under the Net is a good choice. I always like to read the first book of a writer I enjoy even if only to see from where the author developed. I will be interested in Undr the Net. The others I was considering that were The Nice and the Good, (Booker nominated and supposedly her best mystery) and A Severed Head, (supposedly on of her funniest, it was also staged). All her novels for the most part are pretty tightly rated in mid to high 3's and that seems the case away from Goodreads too. I felt there was a good degree of difference in each reading experience I had with her books, but like Henry James, all her books have stayed with me and my favorite read was not necessarily her best novel. I am in no rush to get to her but I would like to read at least one of her novels this year.

Iris Murdoch's writing is loosely divided into three stages according to Miles Leeson-- an early stage--a stage of her best hits from Bruno's Dream to somewhere in the 1970's around The Sea, the Sea,
--and then her "baggy monsters," longer books that I imagine would be chosen if and when you become a fan.

https://fivebooks.com/best-books/iris...

There is also a very active Iris Murdoch Society that has all sorts of posts on events, group reads, academic news, etc that might be of interest. I am linking the Facebook page. I am sorry. My link is not working. Just search Iris Murdoch society Facebook.

I would love to join for Under the Net!

I have read:
A Severed Head
The Nice and the Good
The Black Prince
The Sea, the Sea

To me, she's very reliable, but at the same time, each book is so different.

Interesting article, Sam. I just read the first part, but have to agree with this, about The Sea, The Sea: "you’ve got to enjoy her self-obsessed male narrator type. And there are plenty of those." That was particularly true of The Black Prince too, but I loved them both.

Very helpful Sam


Thanks

I did eventually read all 26 of the novels, and also reread The Bell last year too. I rather like most of the later books, apart from the last one (Jackson's Dilemma) which is probably the weakest.

Hugh wrote: "I did eventually read all 26 of the novels, and also reread The Bell last year too. I rather like most of the later books, apart from the last one (Jackson's Dilemma) which is probably the weakest."

That's impressive Hugh!

Yes it is

Hugh wrote: "I did eventually read all 26 of the novels, and also reread The Bell last year too. I rather like most of the later books, apart from the last one (Jackson's Dilemma) which is probably the weakest."

Hugh if you find time I would love to see a ranking of your top five or ten Murdoch novels.