Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

This is the thread for the discussion of The House of Erzulie by Kirsten Imani Kasai.

Thanks so much, Beverly!

Phyllis, let me know when your book arrives and we can work out a reading schedule if you like. And thanks!

Here is some information:

http://thehouseoferzulie.weebly.com/
A website that includes info including music that helped set the mood when the author was writing this book.

Editors' Choice, Historical Novels Review

Reviews: Historical Novels Review; Library Journal; Booklist; Foreword Reviews

Advance coverage: Most-Anticipated Books for February (The Millions); 25 Fiction Books You Must Read in 2018 (Bitch Media); Books by Women of Color to Read in 2018 (Electric Literature); Adult Fiction and Nonfiction Read-Along Book Pairings (Book Riot)

OK...per Amazon, it should be available via Kindle on 2.21...I'll let you know if it's delivered sooner.

Mocha Girl wrote: "OK...per Amazon, it should be available via Kindle on 2.21...I'll let you know if it's delivered sooner."

My kindle copy is also suppose to arrive on 2/21.

An interview with the author published just today:

http://thenervousbreakdown.com/tnbfic...

Columbus wrote: "An interview with the author published just today: http://thenervousbreakdown.com/tnbfic..."

What a great interview! :-D
I especially enjoy the ending:
"Your bio says “she quietly advocates for introvert rights from the privacy of her home.” Speak on that.
(Subject gently shushes the interviewer before running away.)"

I loved the comment, "The electoral college put into office a crass degenerate, which caused the infection inside America’s cultural underbelly to suppurate. That long-simmering boil of systemic racism and misogyny that has sickened so many of us finally swelled and burst. " .....SAY IT AGAIN!!

Random comment - Is touch typing a dying art? Really?

Amazon delivered to my Kindle. I'm ready. Let me know the schedule.

Mocha Girl wrote: "I loved the comment, "The electoral college put into office a crass degenerate, which caused the infection inside America’s cultural underbelly to suppurate. That long-simmering boil of systemic ra..."

Phyllis, I loved the last part of that as well:
Now, we roil through successive waves of revelation, rebuttals and retribution and it’s just gonna keep bubbling up until we heal the contamination within the deepest levels of our society.

She has this acerbic, biting wit that’s just sublime. Hopefully it’ll translate to the book.

Anyone else planning to buddy read this with us? Available as of today on Amazon.

Phyllis, I’ll finish up this juicy mystery I’m reading this evening and can start Erzulie later tonight. How about we read the first chapter Lydia Mueller, Philadelphia, Present Day and discuss tomorrow. By then we’ll know if anyone is joining in and how to arrange schedule.

Some early questions we may be able to answer from the first chapter:

1. Your initial thoughts, comments and questions about the book?
2. First thoughts on the authors writing style

OK - I'm on it!

Hi guys!
I’ll join in once my copy arrives. I’m not great on the Goodreads threads but I’ll try.

Donna wrote: "Hi guys!
I’ll join in once my copy arrives. I’m not great on the Goodreads threads but I’ll try."

Great, Donna. Do join in when you can. I take it you requested the physical copy?

I'm not sure if this thread needs spoiler tags since it is a "book buddy" discussion - please advise. I used tag to be safe - didn't want to upset anyone.
(view spoiler)[
1. Your initial thoughts, comments and questions about the book?

Before I get to the book I'll admit, I am biased and intrigued by the entire offering:

• A genre classification of "Gothic Literature" - I have to think hard, but I doubt if I have more than a few of these on my shelf - few and far between, so it would be nice to introduce a new flavor to my reading palette this year.

• The title and sister on the cover hinted at a female (of color) protagonist with plotlines in yesteryear and current day.

• Based on the interview that was shared with the group and the bio, the author is a self-described feminist and has an eccentric, "quirky" vibe that I like which makes me want to read what she has to offer. The opening chapter already has me wanting to check out her other books.

The Book: After the first chapter, I'm vested…I want to see how this is going to play out. I'm already a bit sympathetic toward Lydia's plight (seemingly separated from her mother at a formidable age, naïve to a fault in her youth (leading to a questionable and unhappy marriage), and seems to be neglected by (an abusive) husband and son which seems to exacerbate her loneliness and existing mental condition(s)). However, it's clear, she's competent (and confident) in her field of study and I hope she can leverage this to find some peace and happiness.

Oh - and I'm also nosey...like Lydia, I want dig into the past and find out more about the Bilodeaus and what this package can reveal about them.

2. First thoughts on the authors writing style 

I'm enjoying the "conversational" style (I don't know if that's the correct term) used in the first chapter - it's like Lydia is casually talking to the reader…almost in a 'confessional' tone. I sense honesty and humbleness. My first take is I like Lydia almost instantly; I want to know more about her and I want her to get better and find happiness.
(hide spoiler)]

How about we set up an actual schedule for discussion and if you want to discuss anything beyond that point then use the spoiler tag? That way those who would like to read beyond the designated date can still add comments and those who may join in later will still have a pleasurable reading experience.

How does this sound:

Chap 1 Present Day - discuss thru Feb 23
Chap 2 Belle Rive Plantation - discuss thru Feb 26
Chap 3 Present Day - discuss thru March 1st
Chap 4 BR Plantation - discuss thru March 4th
March 5th Entire Book open for discussion

OK...works for me.

Yes, “intrigued” would be the perfect word for this. I’m hooked! I actually started reading the sample provided by iBooks in bed last night before transferring to the physical book and I mistakenly read beyond the first chapter. I was that into it.

I typically eschew “southern gothic literature” as a rule, and like you, don’t recall having many such titles in my library. Possibly why I’ve never read Beloved, Faulkner or O’Connor. But this one sounded especially exciting and thus far (and I realize it’s just a start) living up to expectations.

Personally, I love books that show a disintegration of a marriage. One that shows the slow, unraveling of a once happy union. A little masochistic I know, but it can be great theatre (think George and Martha, Who’s afraid of Virginia Woolf).

I loved this from the author on that subject :

Lydia...They say “love is not a cup of sugar that gets used up” but it is. Spoonful by spoonful, grain by grain, the greedy, the needy, and the hungry consume it and demand more until the bowl is empty.

Yes, give me more!

The writing is stark, moody, dark and in a “conversational” tone as you mentioned. I’m stoked and need to find out more about the letters of Emilie to Genevieve.

I had intended to read along with the schedule but I can’t. I just can’t. I’ll just jot down notes for each chapter to keep track.

Same here...I was at the salon last night when I began reading (while under the dryer) and read beyond the first chapter. Like you, I'll jot notes and comment per the schedule. I'm also on business travel next week, so I'll only be able to comment/post in the evenings as time permits.

Mocha Girl wrote: "I'm not sure if this thread needs spoiler tags since it is a "book buddy" discussion - please advise. I used tag to be safe - didn't want to upset anyone.
1. Your initial thoughts, comments and que..."

My thoughts are similar to yours - though I have probably read a couple of more "Gothic Literature" than you have and I enjoy historical fiction and it is written by a female so I was intrigued.

Secondly, it is published my a small press which I am finding is more willing to publish for a lack of a better term - "non-traditional storylines" and a more "fresh" storylines.

I am liking the author's writing style - for me often when a story takes place in the present and in the past, usually one storyline seems to take precedence or dominates the book. But in this first chapter there were enough hooks for both Lydia's story and Emilie's.

I liked that Lydia has carved out a career for herself doing something that she enjoys.

I definitely chuckled when her husband, Lance calls all the way up to the attic to tell her to take the burnt roast out of the oven - instead of just doing it himself.

I am enjoying the author's phrasing and how she presents ideas/concepts.

One of my favorite sentences in the first chapter is:
"But lately they'd been back, persistent as roaches, as glib as serpents' tongues."

I liked how she is introducing us to concept/importance of snakes in African religions/belief systems.

Lydia refers to she and her husband put "all our our eggs in one basket" and hoped for "lucky snake eyes" when referring to her one pregnancy.

Also curious about her son's name - Hackett.

Columbus wrote: "Yes, “intrigued” would be the perfect word for this. I’m hooked! I actually started reading the sample provided by iBooks in bed last night before transferring to the physical book and I mistakenly..."

I also underlined that sentence!!!

Mocha Girl wrote: "Same here...I was at the salon last night when I began reading (while under the dryer) and read beyond the first chapter. Like you, I'll jot notes and comment per the schedule. I'm also on business..."

I will be traveling and at time will not have access to post comments but will as I can.

Beverly wrote: "Mocha Girl wrote: "I'm not sure if this thread needs spoiler tags since it is a "book buddy" discussion - please advise. I used tag to be safe - didn't want to upset anyone.
1. Your initial thought..."

Yes, it can be tricky for authors using the present/past storylines and then to make them join in a tight and cohesive whole. I thought Aboulela did a great job with that in The Kindness of Enemies. I liked the past storyline a little better but she did a great job entirely.

Beverly wrote: "I liked how she is introducing us to concept/importance of snakes in African religions/belief systems."

I agree! We also see the reverence and reference of snakes and snake god(desses) in Freshwater and in Kintu.

Columbus wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Mocha Girl wrote: "I'm not sure if this thread needs spoiler tags since it is a "book buddy" discussion - please advise. I used tag to be safe - didn't want to upset anyone.
1. Your..."

Yes, The Kindness of Enemies did the dual storyline very well!

ToMo, Mother Morrison, simply Queen references the "Romancing of Slavery" in her novel, The Origin of Others. Although she referenced and cited literary works/examples, the following passage from THOE splendidly and literally supports the "romancing slavery" aspect when the Foundation requested Lydia to bring out the "best" of their renovation project:

"I am to dress the set and create a beautiful façade to disguise the festering rot and horror of slavery's legacy. Then, honeymooners will pay five hundred dollars a night to make love in remodeled sugar shacks and breathe in the dewy scent of magnolia blossoms while the bones of the dead molder six feet below the ground upon which they recline, heart to heart."

Tomorrow we’ll start discussing the second chapter of the book and I’m really looking forward to it. To say I’m enjoying this book so far would be the understatement of the year.

Before we get to the second ch. just wondering what your thoughts are on the epistolary form used in literature? Letters, journals, diary entries, newspaper clippings etc.... The only book that I’ve read that would come close to that would be the Andy Warhol diaries. An American Marriage is the most recent book where there were letters written to/from prison. However, that was for only about 20% of the book or so.

Can you name any that you’ve read and do you typically enjoy them?

Mocha Girl wrote: "ToMo, Mother Morrison, simply Queen references the "Romancing of Slavery" in her novel, The Origin of Others. Although she referenced and cited literary works/examples, the followin..."

Yes, the author is hitting on points that too often get swept under the rug - but she does is such a matter of fact but the truth of the statement makes you stop and take notice.

Columbus wrote: "Tomorrow we’ll start discussing the second chapter of the book and I’m really looking forward to it. To say I’m enjoying this book so far would be the understatement of the year.

Before we get to ..."

Not sure I how I feel about epistolary form but it does not necessarily prevent from reading a book that uses it if it the book blurb appeals to me.

But often we learn more about a character than their actions and the face they present to the public.

I would say that I thought the epistolary form was well-done in Upstate by Kalisha Buckhanon.
It is still the book that comes to mind first when someone says "epistolary" form.

A book that I read recently that used the epistolary form that I think helped elevate the book above the norm for historical fiction - The Second Mrs. Hockaday by Susan Rivers.

I haven’t read either of those books but they look sort of interesting. It’s a form that I wouldn’t think would appeal to me but I guess I’m learning to get more comfortable with it. It’s certainly pretty effective in this book.

Chapters 1 and 2 open as of today

I'm unsure how to "talk" about this section - it covers so much! I'll start with Isidore - poor guy!! (I sort of miss having his first-person POV available). In this section, we learn of his mental and physical decline (a combination of "spiritual hauntings," medical treatments of the era, and of his own doing (spawned by mental illness). Isidore seems to be tormented by a succubus spirit that haunts the plantation. He deteriorates rather quickly and we learn the details of the order to commit him to an insane asylum mentioned in the first chapter.

I admire Emilie's dedication to her husband - poor woman is at her wit's end regarding what to do and how to truly help him to the point she applies to medical school and wants to escape Belle Rive!

I liked how she wove in the crude (and harmful) medical techniques and practices of the era! Geesh! Head nods to those pioneers (she name drops a lot) and Emilie's "open-mindedness" and determination to search for solutions to her situation.

Question:

Perhaps this is the reuse of a "popular" name, but is Clothilde a relative of Emilie's? There's a passage,

"Papa waves the French flag and trumpets the claim of his European bloodline, but his grandmother was Haitian, as is her sister Clothilde."

Soooo….is Clothilde a great-Aunt?? Emilie's relative? If so, why are they treating her like a slave/the help?

My comments re: plantation life:

I thought the author does well with the subtle, yet impactful, references to the horrible conditions and treatment of the enslaved:

• Injuries that cause death
• Older/Aging slaves still expected to produce at youthful rates
• Poupette raped by overseer and has a child; Maman seemingly blaming her for the assault
• Runaways and the repercussions of failed attempts toward freedom
• Whippings/Beatings
• Heat exhaustion in the fields
• "Competition" from Chinese Sugar workers appear in LA
• Disease/Illness: Twelve slaves succumb to Yellow Fever

Using few words, she allows the reader's imagination to visualize the hardships and sympathize with the hopelessness of their situation. It was clear from the beginning; although a free man of color, Emilie's father shows little mercy/empathy toward his slaves and works them extremely hard. Isidore and Emilie largely turn a blind eye to the atrocities even though both are bothered by it.

A few thoughts re: Ms. Emilie:

• I like that she discovers she enjoys sex

• As hinted to in Chapter 1 - To survive infancy/childhood in this era is truly miraculous. She loses two children in three years; miscarriage/stillborn (Fern) and son to Yellow Fever (Theodore)!

• She's defiant and teaches Poupette to read and write! I love her for it!!

• It's understandable that her faith in Christianity/Catholicism wavers after the death of the children; however, it seems like after viewing the spirit in her dreams, at the séance, and feeling the nightly hauntings in the house opens her mind to consider voodoo. (Clothilde co-signs on that theory - LOL!) Her losses propel her readings and research into the occult because she wants to commune with her dead children.

• Girlfriend has a plan upon her father's passing: She vows upon his death to sell plantation, buy slaves freedom, put her mother on budget and try to get help for Isidore.

She's dealing with a LOT and I hope she maintains her sanity, health/strength, and motivation to improve her situation!!

Let's talk about "the spirit(s)" - I think there may be more than one at play, maybe…

Clothilde warns of a spirit in the house "looking for a man who's done her wrong." She mentions the loa: Erzulie Ge-Rouge and tells Emilie that she must find the witch and sprinkle red pepper on her skin while she sleeps. Is it Mme Laveau's daughter (Petite Laveau) - she fell out a the séance in which a spirit entered Isidore (according to Emilie). Although it doesn't seem like Isidore is the cheating type, I can see him being attractive to other women causing jealousy as he seems to be a nice guy who's married and likes to be left alone with his plants. He just doesn't strike me as the womanizing/player type (at least from Emilie's description of his behavior).

Another theory - Isidore brought the spirit with him…and based on the Wikipedia (don't laugh) definition of this loa, I'm wondering if Isidore didn't abandon another love(r ) to marry Emilie for financial security and/or familial obligations (they are cousins). Is there a jealous woman out there who has cursed him (and by association Emilie to leave her childless). I mean no other man on the plantation seems to be "haunted" in the same way Isidore is…his is a very specific type of torture, if you know what I mean.

Needless to say…I can't wait to see how this plays out!

There’s a lot of good things the author is doing in these pages, this chapter, this book - - and she’s doing a lot. whew!

First of all she’s setting the scene well. It’s atmospheric and I totally feel like I’m a voyeur in the going-on’s at Belle Rive in the 1850’s.

Phyllis, my initial impression of Isidore is that Emilie had got herself a lemon. She should've kicked the tires a few times before settling on this one. But, of course we learn of his mental issues/deficiencies and he becomes a rather sympathetic character. Yeh, poor thing.

I read this paragraph over and over (pg 57) because it was so eerie, spine-chilling almost (not hyperbole) and captured the mood and what was forthcoming:

....I could not move forward, only back, as if repelled by some supernatural force......Isidore stumbled to the floor of the hut, entirely unaware of me as I stood before him. His horrific eyes were staring and empty as if drained of all life when he lurched out, hair mussed and clothes asunder. I stretched forth my hand to rouse him from that dreadful state and glimpsed, almost as if at the edge of my consciousness, the ephemeral glimmer of some wicked phantasm, so faint as to be imagined. Yet I did not imagine what I saw! I recognized the face of the feminine spirit who had stood upon the table at the séance, the one who dissolved into a buzzing cloud and flew into my husband's throat. She turned her wretched visage to me and for one brief moment, our souls touched - hers frigid and mine life-warmed and passionate - and I immediately experienced that distinct sense of icy pain one has when plunging cold skin into very hot water.

As for Clothilde, I had hoped the author would fill us in on her relation to the family as well. I initially thought she was like a highfalutin maid or valet, sort of being the right-hand person for Emilie. She’s probably fair-skinned you know, admitted entry into the big house. Remember we’re first introduced to her making the wedding cake. She’s been with the family forever and she’s somewhere in her 70’s according to Emilie. Hopefully, we’ll find out more as we read on.

Whenever I’ve read books in epistolary form in the past it’s been back-and-forth dialogue between two or more parties. Never one-sided correspondence. The author does a magnificent job of giving you a full picture of what’s going on in both Louisiana and New York City.

I, too, am enjoying the epistolary format and she's doing a great job! The first person narrative creates a more "intimate" vibe and I'm able to empathize and sympathize more with the letters' authors. (Yes, I've read ahead to Isidore's letters). As Ms. Bev mentioned, the only other epistolary novel I can recall reading was Upstate.

Oh, my, my, my. Just finished Lydia Mueller, section 3, and now see Isidore’s diaries are upon me. Are they as good as they would promise to be? Can’t wait to start them!

I KNOW! Early on, I totally blanked out and it didn't click that Isidore's letters were included...I really want to hear what he has to say!

I have a few comments about Ms. Lydia...will try to type them up later tonight.

A few thoughts:

I find Lydia to be an extremely lonely, passive and naïve woman. She seems to have no influence in her household and both husband and son seem to just "tolerate" and placate her. It seems like everyone she encounters knows her history and "being away" (except the reader has been spared the details so far). She obviously has no (female) friends, no close colleagues, and even the priest at the school talks to her as he pleases spewing antiquated, misogynistic twisted religious beliefs essentially blaming her for Hackett's behavior. Again, even with the priest, she says nothing to defend herself or check his behavior.

In another twist, I was initially happy with Lydia's invitation to New Orleans to inspect the renovations at Belle Rive, but should have known better. I was thrilled at the reveals in this chapter - we got a lot of answers and parallels to Emilie's accounts of the house hauntings and the events at the séance. Geesh! What did Lydia get herself into and better yet, how does she undo it/escape? It seems like the trip to New Orleans just exacerbated her madness (the cutting, the continual opening of an infected wound, the blood sacrifice at Mme Laveau's crypt, etc). I loved the parallels to the loa Erzulie's angst.

Note: There would have been no way they would have left me at the unfinished/work in progress, creepy plantation every night in renovated slave quarters alone without security, staff, other workers, etc.

Another aside - I didn't realize ice cream was available back then...it's mentioned several times. It was obviously a delicacy and enjoyed by the affluent. I learned something new.

Lydia Mueller, Philadelphia: I was reading in wonderment at this 180 degree change in what I thought of Lydia and her character from chapter one. I’m reading in utter amazement at some of her decisions and the things she’s doing here.

The incident with Hacket and the priest was absolutely crazy to me (even reading it over a second time). I’m confused as to why this smart woman would allow him to get away with that.

True, Lance has absolutely no respect for Lydia. Taking showers in the middle of the night when your normal routine is baths, he obviously didn’t care.

The one part of this book that I was initially hesitant about reading is that dealing with dreams, voodoo, occult etc... I typically steer clear away from this but this story is just too enticing. Even knowing that this is integral to the story.

Erzulie (sometimes spelled Erzili or Ezili) is a family of loa, or spirits in Vodou.

So, is Lydia under the spell or slowly succumbing to it. A little confused with that.

Mocha Girl wrote: "Another aside - I didn't realize ice cream was available back then...it's mentioned several times. It was obviously a delicacy and enjoyed by the affluent. I learned something new."

I looked this up myself. Ice Cream a delicacy in France (ooh, a shocker!) not sold to the general public to the mid-1600’s.

I really hope that the author gives a deeper backstory on Lydia. In the first chapter I thought that she was an ill-treated person who had no spunk concerning herself. However, after the next chapter dealing with her in New Orleans, I'm a bit confused. Is she misguided or is she hexed? What's up with her? I am really into this one.

Jean, I’m feeling the same way about Lydia as I mentioned. She’s sort of turned a 180 on me to be honest. She’s obviously quite intelligent albeit a little naive about certain things. I figure in this last section we’ll get a fuller picture of her. Do you feel this is intentional by the author to keep us in suspense about her character or is this a flaw of the story?

Have you started reading Isidore’s diary yet (part 4)?! It is riveting! We start discussing that as of Friday but I’m literally chompin’ at the bit to get to this. Anxious! Kasai can certainly write and weave one ol’ story!