Return of the Rogue Readers discussion

Thread opens Sunday April 29th!

I finished Sleepers a few days ago. I thought it was a good read. Rather dark at times.

It was divided into three parts. Loved the first part, second part was dark and hard to read at times. The third was kind of a let down.

Early on in the book they mentioned the monthly rent was which I can't find now but want to say it was something like $68. Today it looks like you an apartment in Hell's Kitchen is around $3,000.

Bruno Sammartino, a wrestler that was mentioned a couple of times coincidentally died earlier this month.

I'm not sure I realized this was "based" on a true story before I started reading. When I was looking up things related to the book I came across some articles claiming that the story was not true. To me it did seem to be written in a way that it would be ideal for the movie that was eventually made. Didn't think it showed a lot of supporting detail for the legal portion. It all seemed to play out a little too easily. I realize Caracaterra is not a lawyer but just putting it all on the character Michael rather than do some research seemed a little lazy.

Over all I liked it and need to re-watch the movie soon.

I finished it a day late this time. Glad to hear you enjoyed it, Gretchen.

I agree with your review of the three parts of the book. The first was definitely my favorite. Having seen the movie, I knew which direction this book was going, but I couldn't help feeling like it might have shaped into a Goodfellas-style tale of loveable (or at least likeable) street kids who grew into respected gangsters. I knew a dark turn was coming, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the vibe of the early part of the tale.

The middle was indeed a difficult read. I can't begin to imagine what that must have been like for the boys of Wilkensons. Being trapped in a place with no way out, no allies, and no hope. I forget which of the boys said it, but at one point they told Nokes to kill them, and it sounded like he felt that was the best option. I imagine the emptiness the boy felt when he said that. Not even the idea of revenge was a consolation.

The third part, with the retribution and trial, was kinda meh. I would have enjoyed reading a dozen pages of how they tortured Nokes and Friends, or maybe going the "reality route," an ending where Tommy and John went to prison and were executed for the murder of Nokes. The ending we got felt kinda like fanfiction...or something Patrick Rothfuss wrote. The term I often hear associated with Rothfuss is "wish-fulfillment fiction," and that is what the third part of Sleepers was like. As you said, it all fell together with no real struggling or hard work. It felt very insincere to me.

Interesting trivia on the massive increase in rent costs. Wow, that's some perspective there. I looked up Bruno Sammartino after reading your post. The man had an interesting life. Were you a fan or did you come across this info elsewhere?

Would you read any of Carcaterra's other work, Gretchen?

Has anyone else finished the book yet? Dust off those keyboards, friends!

I was not a fan of Bruno Sammartino. I just happened to be scrolling through some news and his name popped out at me.

I think I would read more from Carcaterra. I found his writing easy to read and enjoy the details he includes to set the era and physical setting.

Hey guys sorry I haven't been active lately. Finals!! Lol Hello Gretchen! You picked a good book! I agree with everyone that it was hard to read because it was so depressing and sad but I kept turning the pages. I'm glad they got some revenge at the end.

Gretchen you said you liked the details of his settings and I do too. I think that was the best part of this book! The first part was such fun to read. Such interesting characters! I didn't see the movie and I didn't know how the book would turn out.

You said people think he made it up?

Amy, I had a final as well. Sounds like we have the same excuse this time around. ;)

I quite enjoyed this read. It was not a pleasant tale or something that I looked forward to diving into at the end of the day, but I was very eager to see where the story went. Leaving the questions of veracity aside, it was real enough to seem plausible given the fact that it was set in a time and place where legal accountability for violent crimes wasn't exactly front-page news. It kept my attention and in contrast to Jordan's experience, I didn't feel like I was reading wish-fulfillment fiction.

I found the characters of Fat Mancho and King Benny added a nice flavor to the tale. At times they almost felt like the characters in a fantasy story that helped the hero prepare for his epic voyage.

Amy, I found this article from around the time the movie came out:

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/22/mo...

It seems like the church from Hell's Kitchen and the DA's office both publically said the story was made up, but the author himself stated he changed some names and places for what I believe are obvious reasons. After all, what kind of friend would he be if he ratted out not only his murderous buddies, but the prosecutor who helped them escape justice and a priest who lied under oath?

Welcome back, Amy! I hope your finals went well. Same to you, Ryan. Which classes are you guys taking?

Amy, from what I remember the movie was pretty good. Then again, I haven't seen it since the 90's.

Ryan, I understand what you mean about the fantasy tale vibe. I'm reminded of Cort and Vannay from the Dark Tower series. Neither set of characters are loving, warm mentors like Dumbledore or Gandalf, but they do provide a measure of comfort and they prepare the protagonists for what lies ahead.

Since we are on the topic of this being a true story, what are your thoughts? Does knowing that the story might be embellished or totally fabricated make a difference in your enjoyment?

Thanks Ryan for including the link.

I think this book was written well enough that I enjoyed it regardless of it's validity.

We all romanticize our past experiences to a degree?? I look back on my childhood in similar ways. The story wouldn't be interesting if it was just the facts. The author paints a charming picture of his friendships and of a "simpler" time. That becomes more so when faced with the horrors of being in juvenile detention.

I still need to re-watch this movie. It is available on Amazon Prime.

So glad you guys enjoyed this book.

I agree with Gretchen. The book was enjoyable enough that I wasn't really concerned with whether or not it was true. It felt realistic and that was good enough for me. Good selection, Gretchen!

I don't know. I think I was kinda sad when you guys said it might be made up lol but I still liked it. I like the feeling of reading a book and knowing the author is being honest. Like if you read Harry Potter you don't get the impression that JK Rowling wants you to think it actually happened. It feels like Lorenzo Cartera was trying to pull a fast one on us if he was lying

ikd I still liked the book

Hey guys who gets to pick next?

Amy, I apologize for the delay. I didn't see the notification and I didn't realize you had responded. If my calculations are correct, you get to pick out next book!