SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Hello,

I'm going on a holiday and was wondering what the best Space Opera series are?

I really liked the Commonwealth Saga bij Peter F. Hamilton.

Thanks for your advice!

The Expanse with James S.A. Corey maybe? :)

Alex wrote: "The Expanse with James S.A. Corey maybe? :)"

Thanks. is this better than the TV series? I watched episode 1 and did not like it .

Iain M. Banks Culture books are my all-time favourites. They are not a series as such, the only ones directly connected are Consider Phlebas (the first) and Look to Windward (arguably the best), but even here it isn't necessary to have read the first. Another of my faves in the sequence is Use of Weapons



Alastair Reynolds is excellent, well worth starting with Revelation Space as an introduction to his initial books. His later stuff is just as good, but increasingly less Space Opera-y.



I'm really enjoying Becky Chambers Wayfarers books, starting with The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet, a more intimate take of space opera, perhaps reminiscent of Firefly in some respects.



Ken McLeod has written a couple of great series - Engines of Light starts with Cosmonaut Keep and The Fall Revolution with The Star Fraction - and are both bloody terrific.



Also worth mentioning, for its massive scale and inventiveness, are Dan Simmons' Hyperion books. They are also rather good.

Paul wrote: "Iain M. Banks Culture books are my all-time favourites. They are not a series as such, the only ones directly connected are Consider Phlebas (the first) and [book:L..."

Thanks. I was planning to bring Hyperion with me. Heard good things about it.

I love the Sten series by Cole and Bunch. It’s got a little of everything. The first one is Sten.

All of the Scalzi books set in the Old Man's War universe, but especially the newer ones which are loosely connected to the original tetralogy: The Human Division and The End of All Things.

The Vorkosigan saga by Bujold. Most people start with The Warrior's Apprentice, which is Miles Vorkosigan’s first adventure.

The Tour of the Merrimack series by R.M. Meluch is straight-up old school space Opera. The first one is The Myriad.

Brin’s Uplift series might scratch this itch. Startide Rising is a good one for that.

The Honor Harrington series by Weber is pretty popular.

The first couple The Man-Kzin Wars collections of short stories set in Larry Niven’s Known Space are genuinely excellent. After a while the Tea Party/Brexit conservatives start to take over the series but the first few are free of that anti-science nonsense.

Similar to Space Opera is Planetary Romance, which has the same sort of widescreen epic scope. That’s “romance” in the old-fashioned sense meaning “adventure” rather than a bodice-ripper.

I highly recommend the Well World saga by Jack Chalker. The first one is a stand-alone, Midnight at the Well of Souls. There are 5 books in all.

Then there is Ringworld by Larry Niven. Big ideas, big fun.

Adjacent to all of these is the Destroyermen series by Taylor Anderson. Into the Storm is the first one. These are about a rickety WWI-era destroyer that is outclassed in WWII, and while mid-battle with a Japanese battleship they encounter a storm which sends them to an alternate Earth. On this planet dinosaurs never went extinct and humans never evolved. However, there is a race of intelligent seafaring creatures who are descended from the giant lemurs of Madagascar, who are waging a losing war against the intelligent reptiles known as the Grik. The American destroyer allies with the Lemurians while the Japanese battleship allies with the Grik, causing their technology to leap forward. As the series goes along the Destroyermen encounter the descendants of other missing people, some of whom are allies and some are enemies, and some who are mysterious and not taking sides.

Those books are almost designed as holiday reads. The story keeps getting bigger and bigger. Some entries are better than others, of course, but he’s written a ton of them and it is a crazy-huge epic.

Oh, a couple series I haven’t read yet but have really good buzz are We Are Legion (We Are Bob) and the The Silver Ships series. They sound like straight-up Space Opera.

Thanks for all the info!

I started to read Old Man's War and really liked it. Only read book 1.

I am always wondering how to read series. All books in a row or with other books in between them.

The big problem with Goodreads is that I find too much books that I want to read, so while not finished with one, I allready want to read an other one :/

Bart wrote: "The big problem with Goodreads is that I find too much books that I want to read, so while not finished with one, I allready want to read an other one :/ "


Yup! But "too many books" is a far better problem than the opposite ;)

I really like Timothy Zahn's "Thrawn" (Star Wars) series including the most recent title, "Thrawn", which was published in 2017.

Young Rissa and the rest of the series by F.M. Busby is also good as is Zelde M'Tana set in the same environment

I read Ancillary Justice, the first book in "Imperial Radch" space opera trilogy, It's very good, and highly praised and won many awards, worth investing your time into.

Robert wrote: "I read Ancillary Justice, the first book in "Imperial Radch" space opera trilogy, It's very good, and highly praised and won many awards, worth investing your time into."


I've had this on my shelf for ages and it was just referenced in a recent Incomparable podcast about Ursula K. Le Guin, where parallels were drawn between it and The Left Hand of Darkness, so I think I have to read it immediately.

I’ve only heard great things about We Are Legion (We Are Bob). Haven’t jumped into the Bobiverse myself yet but I’m intending on it.

Well for a Space Opera 'Series'
That Horito Hornblower in space by David Weber is long enough to be of epic proportions.
Although Usually it is referred to as the Honor Harrington Series or books in the Honorverse. It is enjoyable and makes for a somewhat easy read.

I did not love the first Honor book. I did love Collapsing Empire, but I am very sad to report it is only 1 book so far.

Allison wrote: "I did not love the first Honor book. I did love Collapsing Empire, but I am very sad to report it is only 1 book so far."

2nd book (The Consuming Fire) comes out on 10/16/18

Allison wrote: "I did not love the first Honor book. I did love Collapsing Empire, but I am very sad to report it is only 1 book so far."

I wouldn't go so far as to say I love the Honor books, but I do find them an easy(ish) read and somewhat addictive.

For loving a Space Opera, I would go with the Ancillary books. I do need to read the third one still though. I found them fresh and riveting. But someone had already mentioned those. LOL.

Conal wrote: "Allison wrote: "I did not love the first Honor book. I did love Collapsing Empire, but I am very sad to report it is only 1 book so far."

2nd book (The Consuming Fire) comes out on..."

High five, Conal!!

No judgment, DJ, to each their own :) I do agree Ancillary is fun.

Bart wrote: "Alex wrote: "The Expanse with James S.A. Corey maybe? :)"

Thanks. is this better than the TV series? I watched episode 1 and did not like it ."

Much. I love the books but I think I only made it about one and a half episodes into the show.

Yes Alastair Reynolds Rev space series. Iconic and wonderful. Sarah Anne, same about the Expanse. Like the books but couldn't get hooked by the show.

Good titles have been mentioned. I will add the Luna series by Ian McDonald, starting with New Moon.

Says: An excellent Space Opera series is "Poor Man's Fight" Chock-full of man stuff. The collapsing empire is getting a lot of attention but I liked "The Praxis Series" more. The Great North Road" by Peter Hamilton is awesome! "The Player of Games" awesome! Sleeper Pick, "This Alien Shore" by C. S. Friedman in all of it's "nobody mentioned me magnificence!

says, You're welcome!

and on main street, loved the Bobiverse and the Expeditionary Force series.

Robert wrote: "I read Ancillary Justice, the first book in "Imperial Radch" space opera trilogy, It's very good, and highly praised and won many awards, worth investing your time into."

I agree that’s a good book, but it definitely is not Space Opera. It’s not even Planetary Romance. I kept waiting for the Space Opera stuff to kick in and it never does. Because it’s not of that genre.

It’s exactly analogous to someone calling Field of Dreams a superhero movie. You’d keep waiting for the superhero parts to happen and be disappointed when they don’t. It’s a genuinely great movie but if your expectation is “superhero” then you’re not going to enjoy it.

I had that exact issue with The Great Waldo Pepper, the movie about barnstormers which was recommended as a “great comedy”. It features such hilarious scenes as Robert Redford’s girlfriend falling to her death during a wingwalking stunt, and the guy who played the dad in Gilmore Girls being trapped in the wreckage of his biplane and burning alive, so to spare him Robert Redford beats him to death with a board. Ha ha!

Sarah Anne wrote: "Bart wrote: "Alex wrote: "The Expanse with James S.A. Corey maybe? :)"

Thanks. is this better than the TV series? I watched episode 1 and did not like it ."

Much. I love the books but I think I only made it about one and a half episodes into the show. "

I didn’t much care for the TV series either and gave up after 2 episodes. I later gave it another try and binged the first season and then I really liked it. It’s pretty close to the books, all things considered, and streamlines some of the story.

I’d recommend both, actually. Especially streaming the series, which is better that way.

Trike wrote: " The Great Waldo Pepper, the movie about barnstormers which was recommended as a “great comedy”...."

I guess I stand corrected about 'Space Opera.' Your post reminded me of something that happened to me when I was a young kid back in the early 80's. (I was 10 or 11 maybe) I was flipping through the TV GUIDE (remember those?) looking for something fun to watch. I saw a movie listed as 'comedy' so I sat down and watched... Dog Day Afternoon ! YEESH!

I know it's really old school, but I still love the original master of Space Opera, E. E. "Doc" Smith and his Lensman series.

I’m a huge James SA Corey fanboy but even I think the books are substantially better than the tv show. The show is not bad, it just doesn’t rise above it’s genre roots like GAME OF THRONES on HBO does. The books are incredibly thrilling and full of action and great characters. Book 8 (of 9) comes out this December.

The BOBIVERSE trilogy is surprisingly good and enjoyable despite being somewhat simplistic.

I think Reynolds REVELATION SPACE series is also quite good but my ultimate in space opera is PETER F. HAMILTON. Have you read THE NIGHT’S DAWN trilogy (Neutronium Alchemist, Reality Dysfunction and Naked God)? Mind blowing!

The Hyperion quartet by Dan Simmons is a must.

I tried Weber’s Honorverse series (read and finished Book 1 but have little desire to read the rest).

Somewhat similar with Bujold’s Vorkosigisn Saga although I do intend to give it another try in the future.

If I were to rank the space opera authors I have mentioned here it would go:

1) Hamilton
2) Corey
3) Reynolds
4) Banks
5) Simmons

Bart wrote: "Alex wrote: "The Expanse with James S.A. Corey maybe? :)"

Thanks. is this better than the TV series? I watched episode 1 and did not like it ."

I haven't watched the series yet, but the book impressed me.

Trike wrote: "Oh, a couple series I haven’t read yet but have really good buzz are We Are Legion (We Are Bob) and the The Silver Ships series. They sound like straight-up Space Op..."

I second We Are Legion (We Are Bob)! :)

Yes I really liked Hamilton's Great North Road

Falls out of chair laughing at the thought of some poor guy settling in for "Dog day afternoon" the comedy.

Have you seen this neat cooking show called Silence of the Lambs?

So, how are y'all defining space opera? I'm guessing you're not particularly fond of the featured result on google: "a novel, movie, or television program set in outer space, typically of a simplistic and melodramatic nature."

Cheryl wrote: "So, how are y'all defining space opera? I'm guessing you're not particularly fond of the featured result on google: "a novel, movie, or television program set in outer space, typically of a simplis..."

I think in general it requires that it take place primarily in space and have an epic scope. The “epic scope” aspect is of paramount importance. Just saying, “It’s _____ set in space” isn’t enough.

Alien is a slasher film in space, not a space opera.

Gravity is a survival story in space, not a space opera.

Silent Running is a man v. organization story in space, not a space opera.

Zathura is a family adventure comedy in space, not a space opera.

The question then becomes “how small can you go and still be a Space Opera?” I kind of think that the dividing line is somewhere between the movie Serenity and the novel The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet. For me, Serenity has just enough scope to qualify, but TLWtaSAP doesn’t quite, even though they share a lot of similarities. What happens in Chambers’ book doesn’t really have larger implications outside of the crew, whereas in Serenity we see two space fleets fighting and the revelations the crew uncovers have the potential to alter the political landscape for billions of people on numerous inhabited worlds.

in the show "Hannibal" Hannibal Lecter is featured as quite the Chef.

Old curmudgeon fan here. When many of you probably weren't born yet, space opera meant formulaic science fiction taking place in space without the least bit of originality and stereotypical characterization. Star Wars is space opera. Serenity?! There are times when I don't think the generation gap can be bridged.

I'm part of the older generation and I think the movie Serenity (from the Firefly TV show) is Space Opera as is Star Wars

Yep me too CBR. Old lol I reckon the whole Firefly series is space opera with Serenity as its crowning glory. Still pissed it only got pretty much half a season. Not even a full one :( Not a book even though I think there are comics or graphic novels or something now.

Shomeret wrote: "Star Wars is space opera. Serenity?! There are times when I don't think the generation gap can be bridged.
"

Dude, you were NINE when I was born. Generation gap? More like numeration gap. :p

CBRetriever wrote: "I'm part of the older generation and I think the movie Serenity (from the Firefly TV show) is Space Opera as is Star Wars"

Yes!!

Frank Herbert's Dune series I would say is definitely space opera. Also maybe Piers Anthony's Kirlian series, starting with Kirlian Quest.

The Foundation series. Also the Lensman series by E. E. "Doc" Smith (starts with First Lensman). And of course Bill, the Galactic Hero :)

i wouldn't call firefly space opera, though it's a minor quibble. BUt the focus of the show isn't space or sci fi at all.

Ghost wrote: "i wouldn't call firefly space opera, though it's a minor quibble. BUt the focus of the show isn't space or sci fi at all."

by that criteria, most of the books in this thread aren't space opera. Space opera being :

"Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, interplanetary battles, chivalric romance, and risk-taking."

all of which were in Firefly and Serenity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...

does include Firefly and a lot of other books not listed here

Trike wrote: "I think in general it requires that it take place primarily in space and have an epic scope. The “epic scope” aspect is of paramount importance."

Using that definition, I'd absolutely consider the Imperial Radch series a space opera.

*SPOILERS AHEAD*

It includes a galactic empire at war with itself, an immortal emperor, background tensions with terrifyingly inscrutable aliens, space battles involving enormous sapient spaceships, mysterious advanced weaponry, the recognition of A.I.s as a species, and a protagonist who starts out as part of a distributed consciousness and only becomes more formidable when she becomes a single person.

What you said about the events of Serenity "hav[ing] the potential to alter the political landscape for billions of people on numerous inhabited worlds" applies equally well to the climactic confrontation in Ancillary Justice, and to the Imperial Radch series as a whole. Its themes and concerns are large-scale; its characters are larger-than-life (imo, Anaander Mianaai all on her own is almost enough to justify using the word "epic")...it's exactly what I think of when I think of space opera.

The Spiral Arm series starting with The January Dancer
The Lost Fleet, starting with Dauntless
Illuminae trilogy

Yeah, if I ever ask for a book recommendation, I'm gonna be a lot more about what I'm actually interested in, and a lot less about a label. Just sayin'.

Michele wrote: "Frank Herbert's Dune series I would say is definitely space opera."

Except for the lack of the “space” half of the name, sure.

Yes, they travel through space to get to Arrakis, but that’s like calling The Breakfast Club a road trip movie. I mean, they *do* arrive and leave in cars, but....

Jain wrote: "Trike wrote: "I think in general it requires that it take place primarily in space and have an epic scope. The “epic scope” aspect is of paramount importance."

Using that definition, I'd absolutely consider the Imperial Radch series a space opera."

I only read the first two books but they mostly didn’t take place in space, and there’s no large-scale spaceship action. I don’t even recall the Justice of Toren being destroyed onpage.

That’s why I think Serenity barely qualifies as Space Opera. If it didn’t have the altercation with the Reavers near the planet Miranda and then the giant spaceship battle above Mr. Universe’s planet, then I wouldn’t consider it part of the genre at all.