Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus discussion

It's Saturday, 22nd February 1964, and there's a large footprint in the snow ...

... into which, on Saturday 7th April 2018, a new Black Archive has been added, #18, Marco Polo. It's a big tome, with a lot of words, for a big gap in the archive. The book has been a long writing journey, a huge responsibility and sometimes overwhelming privilege. But I've been a fan of this particular serial for as long as I remember... and I saw it twice.

All of which is a way of introducing myself here. I am new to GoodReads, but not exactly new to Doctor Who fandom or publishing. Please say hello, or ask me questions about the book. Also note, Obverse Books are offering it for 4.99 right now (which, on word count at least, is good value ... we can debate the quality!!).

Anyway, this is just hello. Saturdays are never the same without ... you know Who.

I've read the target novelization, but hold up little hope they will ever get enough bits of film gathered together for me to watch this story.

Hi Travis,

It is surely a candidate for animation. Better still, a First Doctor remake with David Bradley. Both are possible given the resources to research it. We have the camera scripts, floor plans, telesnaps to most episodes, audio soundtrack and even a few people with memories of the original broadcasts (from Waris Hussein right down to the surviving fans). As you say, there's also Lucarotti's Target, although he adapted his own script considerably.

Marco deserves to be remade. It is the first historical and the first missing story, a fate it shares with the original manuscripts written by explorer Marco Polo. The BBC gloried in creating a sumptuous costume epic... which it then trashed. Come on BBC, put it right!

👍

Dene wrote: " ... Come on BBC, put it right!"

I agree, this is one of the lost episodes that just endlessly gnaws at me. I'd love to see it! While a remake with Bradley would be fantastic, I'd be happy with an animated release. I was quite pleased with what they did with Power of the Daleks.

Hi Rick,

I'd also be happy with an animated film. Although I really do think the BBC has an opportunity to do use Bradley for an unprecedented classic reconstruction spin-off.

But part of me wants to wander off into dreamland with the conspiracy theorists because, it is intriguing, isn't it, how there aren't any stated plans to redo Marco... it's almost as if they know something that we don't!

Dene wrote: ".. it's almost as if they know something that we don't!"

LOL, yeah, don't go down that dark path it leads to the dark side. :D

LOL

I'd also love to see The Highlanders, with Marco Polo these are the two I'd really, really love to have found, re-discovered or animated. I'd also love to see the episode of The Daleks' Masterplan episode 7 The Feast of Steven which is basically the first Xmas special.

I'm particularly fond of the first two Doctors, in part I think because there's no history here - they (and the production staff) are making it up as they go, so everything has a completely different texture. Some of that spontaneity is also present in the early seasons of the new series, not so much in the Smith and Capaldi years.

Rick wrote: "I'm particularly fond of the first two Doctors, in part I think because there's no history here - they (and the production staff) are making it up as they go, so everything has a completely different texture. Some of that spontaneity is also present in the early seasons of the new series, not so much in the Smith and Capaldi years."

I agree. Also, there is no obligation on anyone to do what's been done before either.

Rick, all those three would all be nice. Indeed, who needs gaps? ... not Who (weak joke). Yes, back then, you don't have tone meetings to ensure brand evenness. John Lucarotti even complained to the Sydney Newman that he had no idea how to write the Doctor (or the other regular companions). The writing was all the better, in my opinion, for having transient teams of writers.

Hi Lori, I don't know about obligation, but part of my book is taken up trying to understand how the BBC could ever be so careless as to lose these pieces of art unless, at the time, it really didn't rate them as highly as that. Another part of the book is recognising how adaptation, not originality, is the key to understanding a lot of popular culture, including Marco Polo's historical adventures as well as the Doctor's. There's no shame in remaking the past, especially when we have clumsily lost it.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a First Doctor spin-off? Better - he says controversially - than 'Class'! (?)

Dene wrote: "Hi Lori, I don't know about obligation,"

-What I meant was that Rick has the right of it when it comes to the early continuity of the First and Second Doctors. There was not the weight of history at the time (though to be sure, other production teams were quite good at ignoring previously established continuity in favor of the story).

"but part of my book is taken up trying to understand how the BBC could ever be so careless as to lose these pieces of art unless, at the time, it really didn't rate them as highly as that."

-The way I understand it, at the time the BBC did not think of Doctor Who as a classic or a piece of Television art, but as a program it put out once a week for family entertainment and that it, along with a number of other TV shows in its archives, were taking up space which could be put to better use for more current entertainment. Thus, a whole slew of films/tapes were either trashed or wiped to be reused.

Throw-away TV

This hasn’t just been a problem for the BBC. In the US, episodes from Johnny Carson’s early years hosting NBC’s The Today Show were lost—and some are still missing today. The same is true for episodes of other US TV series like the original Jeopardy! and soap operas like Guiding Light. In 1978, the BBC established a TV archive and began recollecting that lost footage with the help of archivists, fans, film collectors, and TV stations as far and wide as Cyprus, Nigeria, Hong Kong, and Australia.
https://qz.com/1030062/the-doctor-who...

Whovian Fandom as a whole, is a peculiar bunch and very protective of its favorite show, and would record (with tape recorders) the dialogue of the show, even if they didn't have a video camera - this is why we have full audio transcripts of Marco Polo, The Highlanders, etc., that were used in the BBC Audios of those stories.


"Another part of the book is recognising how adaptation, not originality, is the key to understanding a lot of popular culture, including Marco Polo's historical adventures as well as the Doctor's. There's no shame in remaking the past, especially when we have clumsily lost it."

-I have nothing against them remaking the show, if David Bradley is interested (though, from what I've heard, he has no interest beyond the occasional appearance - also audios are much easier to deal with). Doing animation would be a good way to go too.

Here's a list of Lost TV shows which were also trashed/wiped for spacial reasons:
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/19923/...

Absolutely, it's the fans who carry the programme between the past and future. Fan contribution is hugely important not only in rescuing such important stories, but in using the available technology to reconstruct them.

I hear what you say about the throwaway attitude to television products. There were also space and cost implications. And to be sure the loss of these serials took place over a long period of time, during which particular stories - Marco - were temporarily reprieved only to be junked. Later, as you say, attempts were made to contact overseas stations but often only after those same stations had been instructed to destroy the copies they still held. It is complicated and messy, but I don't entirely go for the theory that the BBC were simply part of an unthinking culture. There's plenty of evidence for the opposite.

Of course, one thing I think we agree on is that the creators - from Lucarotti to the designers (like Newbury)- totally believed that what they were doing was important and had integrity. As you suggest, the fans were the ones who understood this best with some using expensive and rare technologies to (illegally) copy and create the personal archives we all enjoy today. What a pity fans didn't have access to video technologies back then, hey?

Bradley.. wouldn't that be great? Animation, also cool. Of course, I love this story so much, I want to pitch for the best possible outcome. But like you, I am so grateful for fans dedicated to the programme.

Lori S. wrote: "Here's a list of Lost TV shows which were also trashed/wiped for spacial reasons:
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/19923/..."

AHHH, so that's why I can't find a copy of Quatermass on disc. ;)

Hmm, a spin-off series with Bradley covering adventures BEFORE An Unearthly Child? Frell yeah! I'm on board! Allons y! Geronimo! Gallifrey Stands! Wakanda Forever!

(oh, wait ... one of those doesn't fit ...)

Hey Rick, "a spin-off series with Bradley covering adventures BEFORE An Unearthly Child?" - I certainly am not going to argue with you against that. Wakanda Forever, indeed! Of course, there are some great novels out there on that score. But my focus right now is with putting right the wrongs of the past. Marco is such a beautiful story and deserves to find its audience again.

Dene wrote: "...Marco is such a beautiful story and deserves to find its audience again. "

Agreed. I'm only seen the telesnap version that's included with the Doctor Who: The Beginning DVD release but based on that alone it rates, for me at least, as a lost treasure.

For anyone who want's to check out the book, here's try-before-you-buy brief sample of Black Archive Marco Polo

The sample is from chapter seven, which is all about transformation. I'm going to try and find some time to pop by here and explain the full context of all seven chapters. In the book, I tag along with Marco and the time travellers over the seven episodes of the lost serial, in other words, I join them on their journey across Cathay. But while I am there, I also select and highlight specific themes in each chapter. In this chapter I am interested in Marco's transformation, and the time travellers, and also the viewer's including - in this sample - the fans.

Hope you get the chance to take a look.

Looks interesting. I printed out a copy, I'll read over it tonight.

Thanks Rick. Hope you enjoy. The book is on special launch offer still for both eBook and paperback.