Reading the Detectives discussion

Our June challenge book is: Artists in Crime (1938)

This sixth book in the series introduces Agatha Troy, Alleyn's love interest, in a mystery which sees an artist's model murdered.

Please do not post spoilers in this thread.

I am currently about three quarters of the way through this, so I will avoid the spoiler thread for a while. I am enjoying this more than last month's Marsh.

*psst* it's Artists in Crime not Vintage Murder - top post :)

Thanks, Lesley. Found guilty of Cutting and Pasting ;) Amended.

Susan wrote: "Thanks, Lesley. Found guilty of Cutting and Pasting ;) Amended."

:)

Haha Susan and Lesley. I really liked this one - I enjoy the romance between Alleyn and Troy, and the Bohemian artistic atmosphere is great too. Probably the best of the series so far for me.

Have realised that this is one I've read before, but I'm enjoying it too.

Loved it! Alleyn must be very easy to read; everyone seems to know immediately he is in love with Troy. I enjoy the romantic element with my mystery so am very happy and looking forward to the next book.

I saw connections to Sayer's Wimsey in the romance (instant love by our hero, reluctance from the lady) and in Alleyn's mother and his relationship with her.

Sandy wrote: "Loved it! Alleyn must be very easy to read; everyone seems to know immediately he is in love with Troy. I enjoy the romantic element with my mystery so am very happy and looking forward to the next..."

Yes, lots of similarities. I haven't read on, but I hope Troy doesn't hold out as long as Harriet (if you know, don't tell me though!).

I would find that extremely trying if that was the case, as it really got me down with LP and Harriet.

Jill wrote: "I would find that extremely trying if that was the case, as it really got me down with LP and Harriet."

Me too, Jill!

By the way, I wonder what Dorothy L. Sayers thought of the similarities between Troy and Harriet?

I enjoy her writing on the artists and bohemians in the novel. I notice that she seems more connected with them and is sympathetic to them than Agatha Christie, for example in a few of her novels.

I agree, Bruce - I think Marsh's artists are quite close to her actors. She is very good at portraying creative people living in unconventional communities.

Does anyone like Troy? I find her quite an attractive character - she definitely has her own way of life, which on the face of it is quite different from Alleyn's.

I also think the romance in this is very well-done - the brief mentions of him starting to have strong feelings for her are not overdone.

How common was the name Agatha, does anyone know? Wondering if this is a tribute to Christie?

I like Troy a lot - and find her one of the more sensible/likeable characters in the series so far.

Love the idea of Agatha being a homage to Christie, Judy :)

I know this might be unpopular but, although I don't dislike Troy - or Harriet - I could have happily had both crime series without any love interests...

I like Troy very much, and am hoping she will appear in the next book as well. Harriet would come and go and I feared Wimsey forgot her. Both women's independence make them feel quite modern. I like my mystery series with a touch of romance.

I wondered about Agatha as a tribute as well, but it would be more effective if she used that name. Did Alleyn call her Troy before he met her friends?

Yes, I think my issue is not with the characters themselves, but with mixing mystery and romance. I am not a fan of romance books, although I know they are very popular. I do agree both Troy and Harriet are modern though and, presumably, these female authors, who had male main characters, wanted to have a female character to express their own thoughts at times.

I agree with Susan, generally I prefer as little romance as possible in a mystery book, and particularly when it affects the main character (I can more easily overlook romance among the suspects, as it often provides an additional motive or red herring!)

Having said that, I found Troy quite likeable on the whole and the romance didn't intrude too much into the investigation.

In general I enjoy the mix of mystery and romance, and I like the Wimsey/Harriet and Alleyn/Troy relationships, but there are a few books where I feel the romance element goes over the top - for instance one of our previous group reads, Murder at the Brightwell, reminded me a bit of Mills & Boon at times!

The whole Harriet/Wimsey on-off thing eventually got on my nerves. I don't mind Troy at the moment, but I hope she doesn't hold out as long, or I suspect I will be seriously annoyed before many more books have passed!

Susan wrote: "By the way, I wonder what Dorothy L. Sayers thought of the similarities between Troy and Harriet?"

I am guessing these authors got together regularly as several of them co-wrote books, and I wonder if they discussed their characters then. Sayers maybe saying she had second thoughts on taking Harriet's character down this path, and perhaps suggesting to Marsh that she do this or that with Troy. And if so, how much of all these characters are truly their author's creation, or do they have bits from other authors in their make-up?

I'm not very far in - still at sea - but it is interesting that Alleyn spent so long in NZ. Would that have been about the same duration of Marsh's visit back home on that occasion? I'd have to look it up, but I think off the top of my head she was about a year after her surgery before returning to Britain.
I think Troy is an interesting addition to the line-up, and can't help wondering which of Marsh's bohemian friends she might represent.

Having now finished I have to say I enjoyed this story very much. I like the character development of Alleyn, and enjoyed the introduction of Troy. I can't help wondering if Troy's character is a little autobiographical, and is Alleyn's extended stay in NZ connected to Marsh's longer than intended stay. She returned to NZ in 1932 when her mother was ill and died, then stayed on as company for her father not leaving again for a brief sojourn to Britain around 1937. It was at the time of this return to Britain she wrote Vintage Murder and Artists in Crime.

I feel as we are going along you can see more of her life being subtly incorporated into her plots. Something I've not noted before, but I've not read her books in order before. Guess there's an advantage in doing so.

It would be fun to create an idealized version of yourself: all your strengths, a few you never managed to develop, a couple of annoying quirks for color but all nasty tendencies removed. I would be tall and svelt, an exaggeration of my youth, and would age more gracefully.

Haha. Me too

Certainly, they say that Sayers made Wimsey richer as she struggled to make do in a rented room, so there may be some comfort in giving your characters everything you don't have in other ways too, Sandy :)

Sandy wrote: "It would be fun to create an idealized version of yourself: all your strengths, a few you never managed to develop, a couple of annoying quirks for color but all nasty tendencies removed. I would b..."

Yes, all of that but since I'm already considered tall, maybe just a little shorter. :)

Marsh seems to excel in creative backdrops, and this outing is a prime example of that. I especially enjoyed meeting Lady Alleyn, who is urbane, yet warm and welcoming. You can see where Roderick gets his wit. I enjoy the romantic element, if only to show that police detectives can find happiness and love (too many portrayals are self-destructive, dysfunctional types, but perhaps that is a more modern theme).

Yes, the dysfunctional detective is sometimes annoying, so good to hear that this is a bit different. I'm not very far into the book. Just started this a few days ago.

Alleyn is also like Wimsey, in that his older brother is a much more conservative figure - solid, perhaps a little unimaginative. Or, perhaps, second sons had more scope to branch up and not be defined by their responsibilities?

Second sons probably did have more freedom to determine their future and, maybe, they hung around with Mom while Dad was training the eldest. We know these two mothers were perfect.

Second sons probably did have more freedom to determine their future and, maybe, they hung around with Mom while Dad was training the eldest. We know these two mothers were perfect.

Interesting thought, Sandy. I remember reading a book about Henry VIII which said that, while his older son was taken away to be brought up and trained to be the future king, he was allowed to remain behind with his mother and sisters. Possibly why he gained all those, later, rather twisted, romantic ideals and love of female companionship.

If I remember rightly, Marsh's little foreword to the first Alleyn book suggested she was trying to make her detective more ordinary than the GA amateurs - but by this book he has definitely become very aristocratic and I think he has quite a few eccentricities too. Not that I'm complaining, I like him!

That's true, Judy. He started almost as a 'normal,' inspector; albeit one who could fit into a more aristocratic world. Gradually he has changed and, certainly by the next in the series, he is very much a part of the aristocracy.