Fantasy Book Club discussion

Fantastic choice this month for our Group Read and Janny has offered to answer our questions and discuss the text. I can’t tell you how excited this makes me.

Thanks so much Janny.

(I’ll link the text when I’m back in the UK)

Thank you all for voting this book as your June read - it's an incredible honor to be here for you! I am posting some reader resource information and links - with excerpts in all formats, available to you so that you can check out the book and see if it matches your taste.

This is a standalone novel - with a plot that starts and finishes over the course of five and a half days - so the action is very compressed. Expect an experience that starts slow, and picks up pace, hits sprint at the half point, to an intense action finish. If you ever saw the show 24 - but this book will have lots of layers deeper.

The excerpts page has downloadable e formats, and also, can be read on screen. Look in the upper right corner for the e formats.
http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/web...

The audio files - in mp3 for download to your device - are my own reading. I am NO professional narrator - but they were recorded in Garageband and aimed for clarity - as a way for you to get your feet wet on your commute. Scroll down the linked page to find To Ride Hell's Chasm, the three chapters must be downloaded separately.
http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/web...

ARTWORK - all of the artwork for the various covers as well as the black and white work for the chapter head graphics/front and endpiece art and the maps. The book's main page on my website has a 'slideshow' of the various covers in color.: http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/web... If you are moved to investigate a little deeper in the gallery off the main menu, or check the print shop at www.paravia.com/catalog, you can find full view images of the paintings without type on them.

MAPS - there are online enlargements available of all three, to help those of you who may struggle with the reproductions of them on your copy, links as follows:

Main map of the Nations: http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/web...

Kingdom of Sessalie: http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/web...

The citadel: http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts/web...



The fact behind the fiction: Much of the 'research' for this story came directly from live experience. You are most welcome to ask in more depth. I can (if you like) post where I drew inspiration for the ideas, and how the book developed.

For the writers among you who want to see the bare bones process: The Synopsis Treasury by Chris Haviland includes the actual book proposal that was submitted to pitch this novel - if you look it up before reading, BEWARE SPOILERS! While it does not tell everything, it does give the overarching plot line for the story. I am also open to discussing the craft of writing, or my experience with the business.

I look forward to sharing the experience with you - your read is your own, I won't intervene in any way so don't be shy about expressing yourself freely. Also, I type very quickly, so don't be at ALL shy about asking for anything from me - it is totally my pleasure to participate, and you can discuss anything you wish if you want my involvement, directly, with me here.

Have a wild ride! (This is, among many things, a for real horse story, too!)

I read this a while ago and thoroughly loved it.

Thanks Janny.

Oh wow, thank you so much Janny!
I've read To Ride Hell’s Chasm not too long ago, but I'll try to fit a re-read this month :D

And here's my first question about your works in general: have you considered/had propositions for translating your books in different languages? I very rarely read in French but I've found your writing, though wonderfully evocative, "difficult" to read for a non-native. It makes me sad thinking of all those French that can't read your amazing books :/

I admit, I don't have the faintest idea of how the translating business works.

Virginie wrote: "And here's my first question about your works in general: have you considered/had propositions for translating your books in different languages? I very rarely read in French but I've found your wr..."

Hi Virginie - welcome here!

I am always thrilled and crazy delighted whenever an offer for translation rights comes in - it is usually reader driven, in that, books that are noticed, talked about, asked for, and acquire following draw the notice of the publishers who do translations. I have not yet had any offers for To Ride Hell's Chasm - which is very sad - the book was released at the time the world was shocked by the events of 9/11, and in publishing and sales, there was a two year period where NOTHING sold - readers everywhere were connecting with family, re-evaluating their lives and the world around them, and publishers just froze. Bookshops were empty, they didn't stock titles because (at least I was told in Britain) they were not sure if their country was going to war. Quite a mess. A lot of titles 'fell into the abyss' at that time - and this was one of them. By the time that doldrum in the book world passed, this book was not 'new' and new titles obliterated it...in fact, it was scarcely on the shelf in the shops at all.

Visibility and awareness drive a book's future - and so does reader request - if a publisher looking for translation rights knows the book exists - if they hear of it from their readership - then they will pay attention. Many will keep a request tally, marking which titles are asked after.

The Empire series I wrote with Raymond Feist did translate into French, Jai'lu (?? did I get the name right?) and did quite well. Since Empire readers in general have tended to love Hell's Chasm, it would have been a great choice to pick up - but Jai'lu took on the first three volumes of Wars of Light and Shadow, instead, and that book is a leap of complexity beyond Empire when readers may come in thinking they can just skim along - Hell's Chasm makes a great starter book for someone new to my work (and after this one, then Light and Shadows isn't such a long leap, the readers know what to expect from my twists and turns, and they're more likely to trust that). Jai'lu didn't really market (?) the angle of the read, for Light and Shadows - so they never took it past the first three volumes. I did hear from one reader the translation was pretty good - and the cover art was splendid, for the series.

But those are the only books of mine in translation in French so far - one hopes very much this changes in the future.

Perhaps you will be able to find out if those translations are still available in France - the first three volumes of the bigger series fit very well as one story - once again, I don't think the readers realize they are there!

Thanks for your question, and I hope this helps.

Helen wrote: "I read this a while ago and thoroughly loved it.

Thanks Janny."

Hi Helen, thank you for the nice words! I hope the discussion is a lively one - this book has a lot of themes for thought and discussion, many even more relevant now than when the story was first written.

Thanks for your detailed answer, Janny. I was quite young when 9/11 happened, and had no idea the events affected the publishing business so much.

You're right, I didn't realize the Empire series and the first three volumes of Wars of Light and Shadow were translated in French. I'll see if I can get my library to acquire them and "spread the love". Now that I know that translation offers are mostly reader-driven, I'll join the fight and do my best to raise awareness :)

Your French publisher is J'ai lu (you were so close!), which means "I read" (past tense). That publisher is part of the group Flammarion/Gallimard which is the second biggest publisher in France.

Janny, you mention this is a real horse story. How real are the horses? I know you're a horsewoman, so what did you base them on?

Virginie wrote: "Thanks for your detailed answer, Janny. I was quite young when 9/11 happened, and had no idea the events affected the publishing business so much.

You're right, I didn't realize the Empire series ..."

Virginie, thank you so much for correcting me on J'ai lu - my French sucks, bigtime....when I was in Senegal, all the little kids constantly corrected my grammar....and the sadness I have that the translations with the French publisher made me not inclined to chase it down properly....how I wish, since they started with the success of Empire - that they had translated any of my earlier works (even the Cycle of Fire trilogy) - or one of the three stand alones - all of them are a much easier crossover for readers coming off Empire than Wars of Light and Shadows, which is an immensely more complicated an intricate read. But they went where they did, and who knows what will come of it down the line. I deeply appreciate your approach to your library, that's awesome! If the publisher had been aware of the scope of my work from the get go, they may have made a more sensible decision, then worked forward with the bigger series after they'd gotten a following. Who knows what the future will bring? It could spring anything, down the line.

Jim wrote: "Janny, you mention this is a real horse story. How real are the horses? I know you're a horsewoman, so what did you base them on?"

Hi Jim, the horses in this book - and the critical part they play in the story are very very real, in that, yes, as you pointed out, I've ridden for most of my life, and always been in love with them. I did a lot of riding on many many horses - sometimes 8 in one day, and to earn the keep of the hayburners here, often rode horses for folks who were having trouble to sort them out (and their riders - done a good bit of teaching, too). Everything from stubborn Shetland ponies to Appaloosas, Arabs, and American Thoroughbreds, event horses, jumpers, to excercising horses for grand prix dressage riders who had to leave for a holiday, with horses that MUST be ridden....and miles and miles of trails (currently riding for the mounted unit of Peace River K9 Search and Rescue.

Up mountains and down, in every sort of terrain - and competing as well - certainly I've got the background to know each animal is totally individual, and what they are capable of....the horses in Hell's Chasm are not based on any one single horse I've known well, but are an amalgamation of traits taken from many of the ones I've known best - from an assortment of breeds, papered or not. So I've put that experience to work here, with all of the emotional impact of working with these beautiful animals who have hearts so big, and who are capable of giving far more than their all when their trust is earned....all of this went in there as a 'tribute' to them, and what they have given humanity across the course of history is nothing short of staggering.

If I did my job, the folks who know horses will recognize the veracity. And the folks who do not know horses will come away with a deeply felt part of the experience, and a new sense of wonder and respect.

This story - the horses' part in it - was in part inspired by the Tevas Cup - a real world endurance race held every year - 100 miles, ridden in 24 hours, over grueling terrain....it is done safely with vet checks the horses must pass at routine checkpoints to be sure they are fit and OK to go on....because not all of them make the course. I took that concept - and (view spoiler)[ the premise that if a kingdom's survival relied on the endurance of horses, racing against time over nearly impossible terrain - how would the heroic nature of the animals play, set against life or death stakes? Without them, without their giving hearts and their courage, nobody would have survived. So they played every bit as important a role as any of their human counterparts. (hide spoiler)]
I know you are a rider, Jim - you'd be qualified to remark with a knowledgeable eye. So many of our TV shows and books don't treat the animals as they deserve.

Thanks, Janny. You've certainly done more riding over a broader range than I have & I know you're better with breeds than I am. My forte has always been fixing for them & I do a lot of that. Otherwise, I've pretty much always ridden for fun. It's just my girls that are all horse crazy. I think this past year is the first time Mom gave up hunting the timber horses - big Irish ones that pull like a freight train. She broke her ribs again last year pretty badly & so she decided that it might be time to slow down a bit. She's only 78, though.
;)

Jim wrote: "Thanks, Janny. You've certainly done more riding over a broader range than I have & I know you're better with breeds than I am. My forte has always been fixing for them & I do a lot of that. Otherw..."

Your Mom is indestructible! 'Only 78' and still riding like a bat out of H - OMG!!! Has to be old school - it astonishes me, now timid so many riders are, brought up today, never rode by the seat of the pants or learned how to trust the horse under them. There are not so many open spaces, either, where you can ride without limitation. Landowners were not so concerned with liability, then.

Those big Irish horses are astonishing...I once rode on Annie McCaffrey's Pie - and also, went riding cross country over fences in Ireland on another - that fellow was SO HUGE, I had to let the stirrup Way Way down just to mount. I felt like a flea up there. His stride was to match - so very slow and long, it felt eerie, and he went over HUGE fences like they were cavaletti. When I dismounted, I forgot how high up he stood, and I swear, it felt like forever before I jarred into the ground. Amazing horse, so very tolerant, kind and gentle. He didn't pull a whit, though. Total gentleman.

Janny wrote: "Those big Irish horses are astonishing..."

I was wondering if you had those in mind while writing this. They have so much more sense than a Thoroughbred. The water scenes are so vivid in this book. So very well done & memorable. I was telling the girls about it last night since they've been working hard with our new Thoroughbred on his aversion to water. What is it about TBs & water?

We got 2 new rescues last year after the floods in Florida & Texas had left them stranded. Tango is a 4 yo OTTB & Pumpkin is a 6 yo QH. Both chestnuts with blazes. Pumpkin is as laid back & solid as a rock or my pony Chip (aka the Happy Hippo). Tango is a good boy & tries hard, but leading him across a mud puddle was like flying a kite at first. He's getting better, but slowly. I took Chip swimming in the pond last week & Tango danced around on shore as if we'd jumped into a fire. No way was he doing that! Pumpkin just rode in with Marg & then wanted to roll. Obviously no worries there, although it was his first time.

Yesterday the girls took a trip & worked on stream crossings. My daughter came back soaked as she had to fly lead him across multiple times before she could ride across. Lots of big splashes since he can't run on air despite all attempts. It's as if Tango has a water phobia & it seems common to the breed or maybe it's just being off the track. Anyway, he wouldn't have made it in this novel. All circuit breakers would have blown & he'd have gone up in a puff of pure horror.

Jim wrote: "Janny wrote: "Those big Irish horses are astonishing..."

I was wondering if you had those in mind while writing this. They have so much more sense than a Thoroughbred. The water scenes are so vivi..."

Interesting - I have re-trained a batch of off track thoroughbreds. If they were silly about mud puddles, then, you had to introduce them to water - but honestly - I never had one that didn't handle it. The key point was winning their TRUST, so when you asked for something they were scared of, they did it, dead scared, anyway, and then, after that, no more worries. I used to cross the creek until they just did it, then I'd wade them up and down stream for 100 yards, until they were thoroughly solid. Then THEY were the ones who led the other idiots across, forever afterwards. In my time working 'problems' out for riders who were over-horsed, stream crossing heebiie jeebies were a big one they often couldn't deal with. I never EVER had one, thorougbred or not, who didn't handle it like a champ. Eventing requires them to be sterling citizens, jumping into water - and there were water obstacles in jumper courses, too. If the PERSON thinks it's a big deal, horses pick that up very fast. Personally? I LOVE American Thoroughbreds - because once you have their trust they will do the impossible, for you, just for the asking. The biggest mistake people run into with them (in my own experience, which, as you know, can always ALWAYS be improved on, with horses you never stop learning) - the biggest reason people think Thoroughbreds have nerves is that they use pain on them. They are enormously sensitive - and when hurt, even a little bit, they FIGHT BACK. So I never used a stick or a spur, period. No gear, no tie downs, no heavy bits (I don't use that stuff anyway). When approaching a stream, I just blocked their impulse to turn, whirl, or run away. Just eased them into facing it, and waited, took my time. When they got bored/started relaxing, I'd ask to go, then just block leaving and wait, then ask again. I'd push them up if they tried to back, drop the reins if they tried to rear, just kept them facing the obstacle UNTIL they understood: no pain, not scary, give it a try. If I had an older campaigner with me, I'd have them ride back and forth, multiple times, right in front of them to show it was no big deal. They got over their nervousness, usually on the first day, and even, learned to enjoy it. My current off track thoroughbred has ridden on searches, where the terrain and swamps can be nasty.....she's a champ, but with any off track horse, they come to you abused every which way- so winning the off track race horse's trust takes a whole lot of patience and time. When they give it, they are amazing. Phil was handled by people with SHOCK PADS on their hands! She came to me terrified of being touched barehanded...!!! Nobody handled her without chains on her muzzle, it was ugly, and she learned to threaten (out of terror) like a champ - ears flat back, teeth bared, kick like lightning, and do whatever to scare YOU into keeping back. She was just TERRIFIED - not mean at all. If you stood there, did nothing, and just WAITED, she'd settle, and you could step in and halter her (No chains, Ever!!! here) - she still eyes strangers she doesn't know, but years and years of no pain from a human - not once! - she is gentle and will give you the absolute moon. The people who ride warmbloods (more thick skinned) don't understand, usually, how gentle and SENSITIVE these horses are - they feel the fly on their skin BEFORE it lands, and you have to handle them like the princess with the pea under thirty mattresses - once they get that you get that, they're astonishing and generous, to a fault.

I thought of Stormfront in that vein.

Your Chip - I saw pictures! He was a little kid in the water, having so much fun!

There are so many more ethics in this book than the horses - what did the readers think of the dedication?

This guy is a bit more worried about water than any of the rest we've had. He drank out the stream, stepped in it twice, & then decided to fly across. Very weird. He's funny when he does it, too. He often kicks or bobs his head up & down while flapping his lips before & after flying. Sometimes looks scared, other times... I don't know. I think he just might be weird. Well, he won't be the first character we've had around & I'm sure he'll settle down eventually. Just takes persistence & patience. He's been amazingly calm about other things. Even walked across a tarp without much trouble.

Jim wrote: "This guy is a bit more worried about water than any of the rest we've had. He drank out the stream, stepped in it twice, & then decided to fly across. Very weird. He's funny when he does it, too. H..."

Could he be weirding out over his reflection? The head bobbing seems pretty suggestive of trying to see something under his nose, where horses have that blind spot unless they bob.

No, he's looking ahead not down. I think he's just being weird. He wore himself out the other day, so we'll see what happens today & might decide it's too much work today. They're taking him to a place where he can see bank jumps from a stream crossing & a low bridge. He adores the bank jumps & can't decide if it is more fun to make sounds on the bridge or spook at the water. Tango is a good name for him. He likes the sound of his tap dancing. Apparently he has some rhythm too, unlike Indy who liked to drum on my mower deck.

Lol. Horse chat fascinates me. I don’t know any or really see any. They sound like cats (or people). All individuals and quirky.

I also know nothing about boats but I always felt that you did when reading the epic.

Helen wrote: "Lol. Horse chat fascinates me. I don’t know any or really see any. They sound like cats (or people). All individuals and quirky.

I also know nothing about boats but I always felt that you did whe..."

Yes, beyond question animals are all distinct individuals. Science is finally recognizing that.

Yes, also, on the boats - major experience. I've crewed offshore passages on very small sail boats (35 feet/40 feet) and also, a period rigged topsail schooner - so dead to rights, the boat stuff is accurate and drawn from (mostly) real life.

Hi Janny.

I've read To Ride Hell's Chasm a few months back and have started a re-read today because (and I just have to say it) I fell in love with this book.

I too loved the horses. But I loved Mykkael even more. His code of honor, his deeds and his beliefs, his broken body hiding all that strength, his... well everything. :D Mykkael is a hero for my own heart. Which brings me to my question:

There are so many books featuring broken warriors who save the day, that this type of character has become a stereotype. But Mykkael doesn't strike me as a stereotype. (Or I may just be a little biased because I adore him. :) ) To me, he seems a lot more complex than the average broken hero, mainly because of his particular code of honor and beliefs. But still I need to ask

Did you write Mykkael as a character stereotype or did you think his bicultural angle of view honors the belief differences of indigenous cultures and engenders due respect for alternate views?

Laura wrote: "Hi Janny.

I've read To Ride Hell's Chasm a few months back and have started a re-read today because (and I just have to say it) I fell in love with this book.

I too loved the horses. But I loved..."

Interesting question. I really don't approach characters as stereotypes - I sort of create a 'problem' and let the right hero step up for the job. In the case of this book, it was a bit of a crazyquilt profound experience.

The outline called for 'an outsider, a mercenary' and given the setting is a tiny little country that is bucolic and highly isolated - the outline called also for a person who would be distrusted by the homogeneous society, which did not lie along any trade routes/you'd really, if you were part of the larger, sophicticated nations, have no driving reason ever to go there. So such an outsider would be distrusted for his differences.

Open scene 1: in walks Mykkael. I had not PLANNED him, one whit, except for his ethic and his competency. I did not know who he was, where he'd been, anything of his background beyond the immense problem he'd have to surmount - with the constant 'drag' of having to accomplish his business around the political pressures of being an outsider. Fish out of water/with an (to this society) unknown past.

And all of the wonderful surprises fell out of the box!! Every one. First, I had to phone my editor and tell her - so SHE wasn't surprised....because every detail of this character fitted the story, I could not see it the same way without him. She said: go for it.

I had traveled all over before I ever wrote this. I had a history of working with inner city kids in wilderness settings, and college. I had lived in Baltimore during the riots when Martin Luther King was shot/was keenly aware of the civil rights movement leading up to it/and had been known to get into vicious arguments with relatives who held racist views....all went into the stew pot/all that angst and fury, that this world dares to treat human beings without equity, for ANY reason whatsoever.

Which brings us to the last bit, and the probably controversial kernel in this book: respect for indigenous cultures. I have never subscribed to the view they were 'backwards' - that western developed countries and science were superior - I also don't care for the stereotypical stance that would fall into the opposite camp of romanticization. I have read/studied/AND KNOW individuals from such countries - long discussions about divergent historical views - other ways of seeing the world - not just in my country, but others. I have asked those persons for their recommended reading lists and pursued those books to widen understanding. There is an immense complexity there to be learned, respected, listened to. They do not regard the 'universe' the same way western education teaches us - rather they see it as a 'multiverse' - and things we take for granted, from our different background - their concept of 'time' is not one bit the same!! The often see in simultaneity - it alters the entire premise of what's being said. So much, that I find the western centric viewpoint shallow and even, closed minded, and even, at times, offensive.

Listening could teach all of us so much. There is a richness of experience falling between the cracks that would offer such strength.

So of course, a bit of that crept into the book.

I don't see in 'stereotypes' so much as perceive people as individuals. I hate the divisions of identity politics - if we listened to each other, saw each other, without that screen of prejudice - what would we encounter? Some open hearts, some closed hearts, some broken and damaged, some filled with grace - and not always the same thing, every day - we are all human. We change, regress, grow or retreat depending on our attitude and circumstances.

Ex pat people tend to know each other - be more aware of individual identities/so do people who are fish out of water, or in some way 'outsiders' - so the reader (and I as author) 'discovered' Mykkael as the people of Sessalie did: through the course of his actions and his back story emerging.

If Mykkael didn't play as a stereotype, that is because he wasn't 'designed' - I created the problem he would confront, and he was the man who stepped up for the job.

This is part of the magic of writing (for me) - unwinding who a character IS exactly as one would, meeting a stranger for the first time. There is so much deep current below the surface of all of us, waiting for interactive discovery.

This book was written before, way before the current hot button debates on diversity....I know some reviewers have taken this book apart based on one or another 'platform.' -- Their right to an opinion is theirs.

I would hope that the voice of respect is most prevalent, if the reader comes to story with an open heart.

I can always learn, always listen, always expand my opinion. That is what life is about - an not one of us has all the answers.

To Ride Hell's Chasm ran headlong with that stance, and hopefully did as I wished - if you read the story with open eyes, ALL of the characters mattered - Mykkael's part would have totally FAILED if none of the rest had stepped forward.

Even Bertarra. Even the ones you discounted, or laughed at, or failed to take seriously - the kingdom would fall without the whole, and in the wrong circumstance, even the most loyal and just of them all COULD AND WOULD make the wrong decisions.

It's about being right and about being wrong, and daring to be wrong to be right.

And of course, every society has its seneschal.....obstructively blind, just because.

It will be up to the readership to decide if the bicultural angle of view honors the belief differences of indigenous cultures and engenders due respect for alternate views.

I hope they feel free to discuss this in the spoiler thread, since certainly this book, for better or worse, has taken an honest stab at it.

Hey Janny! I wanted to let you know that my library placed an order for the entire Empire trilogy. I'm so happy they followed my recommendation and quite excited at the idea that members will be able to read your work (well, yours and Raymond E. Feist's)!

PS: I didn't pay attention to this thread for a few days and whoa! So many posts! Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions, Janny :)

Virginie wrote: "Hey Janny! I wanted to let you know that my library placed an order for the entire Empire trilogy. I'm so happy they followed my recommendation and quite excited at the idea that members will be ab..."

That's brilliant, thank you for giving your library the recommendation, and you are totally welcome it's my pleasure to respond to the readership.

Thank you so much for that reply Janny. It was wonderful.
May I quote a few lines from it in my review of this book?
I truly appreciate the insight.

The way you described the treatment given to Mykkael as an outsider from the very first chapter, the contempt and disdain, made me very angry. At injustice and at being labeled despicable just for being different.
And that difference seems so important here, perhaps more so because of the smaller setting. Did you choose that on purpose? The smaller setting? Was it to draw out attention to the differences and the way they are viewed?

And just out of curiosity. The setting seems so very beautiful!
Did any place you travelled to provide the inspiration for it?

I know you are on a trip this week and may not have time to reply for a few days. I don't mind waiting.

Thank you for being here with us. :)

Laura wrote: "Thank you so much for that reply Janny. It was wonderful.
May I quote a few lines from it in my review of this book?
I truly appreciate the insight.

The way you described the treatment given to M..."

Up late with last minute work and packing - so here you go!

I did choose the insular setting on purpose - both to show how limited experience of a given population could be impacted by a problem outside of their scope. And in a place where everyone knows everyone, the 'fish out of water' - outsider - would be instantly set apart. The added aspects of Mykkael's difference in race drew the line harder still - made him instantly recognizable as different - so yes, the setting was chosen to increase the tension and drive the story forward without much wasted explanation.

For a tiny country - think Switzerland but even smaller and far less cosmopolitan. Ringed by mountains. Only one access to the low country, one road in or out: Stone Bridge.

You are totally welcome to use any quote - it's a public post, after all.

Oh enjoy your trip. Safe travels.

Hi Janny

John and I were discussing the relationship between Taskin and Mykkael from who is in charge to why one is following another's orders. Especially after the stripping scene in chapter 3, we are not really sure we got it right.

Could you please tell us a bit more about this? For instance we aren't sure why (view spoiler)[Taskin gave Mykkael that order to strip in that particular manner and why Mikkael obeyed. (hide spoiler)]
Establishing chain of command or easying fears due to cultural missunderstandings? What should we look at in particular?

Hope it's ok to ask a question like this.

Laura wrote: "Hi Janny

John and I were discussing the relationship between Taskin and Mykkael from who is in charge to why one is following another's orders. Especially after the stripping scene in chapter 3, w..."

Pretty simple progression.

Taskin is Mykkael's superior officer, formally in the chain of command. He would make this order for several reasons:

One: to defang animosity and prejudice - the soldiers suspicions of Mykkael at this stage is interfering with their JOBS, so, show them he is just a person underneath, and his injury isn't some twisted birth defect - they have to respect his war scars, and his humanity.

Two: Taskin is 'testing' whether Mykkael will follow his orders/how reliable he is under pressure/whether he will defer and also testing his credentials as a leader: if he IS good at leading men, he will recognize Taskin's reasons and go along.

Three: Taskin noticed Mykkael's ability to do his job is failing, at this stage, due to his injury - so being the commander he is, he will see for HIMSELF the extent of that injury and what can be done about it.

Mykkael is savvy enough to recognize all of these reasons; he is insolent up to the very point of letting Taskin know he knows; and he is complying; but doesn't have to like it. So Mykkael is testing back, to see if he can respect his superior officer and trust him enough to take orders as a lawful subordinate.

What surprises them both: that they come out of it aware of each other's mettle, and that Taskin does in fact care about his subordinates and while uncomfortable for Mykkael, it IS the shortest route to shutting down the idiot factor in the guardsmen's behavior.

More: Mykkael also complies because he does not value his dignity above doing his job - and all of the factors listed make getting the job done more dicey - all are better off on known ground, recognizing the set up on the playing field for what it is.

Hope that answers you.

Thank you so much for the answer Janny. That did clarify.

I would also like to ask another thing related to the story. It may sound a bit silly and hope you don't mind, but I am genuinely curious.

Why did you choose cedar in particular, to use against the demons/sorcerers? Is it because of the Wiccan or Druid customs and beliefs? I know you never write something without thorough research and I was not even familiar with that particular type of tree, let alone it's uses. I googled some after reading about cedar here, but am still not sure about the answer.

Laura wrote: "Thank you so much for the answer Janny. That did clarify.

I would also like to ask another thing related to the story. It may sound a bit silly and hope you don't mind, but I am genuinely curious...."

I chose cedar because it is not quite as common a crossover between cultures; but it is shared among many of far-reaching differences of belief as a cleansing agent. So yes, somewhat grounded into 'reality' with regard to belief systems but harder to pin onto one - therefore, less chance of cultural appropriation and stepping on (real) toes in a work of fiction.

Thank you Janny.

And if you don't mind one more question today, we were just reading the chapters when the relationship between Taskin and Mykkael gets a little bit tense.

One seems to me to follow the letter of the law while the other the spirit. And you wrote it so beautifully that I have to root for both of them. It all makes me wonder what I would do if I were either one or the other and I can't really fault any of them because both seem to have valid reasons for their behaviour.

Which do you personally consider more important? And why add this theme into the story? Not that I'm complaining because it's awesome and makes for an amazing read; but I wanted to know if there was a particular reason behind it.

Laura wrote: "Thank you Janny.

And if you don't mind one more question today, we were just reading the chapters when the relationship between Taskin and Mykkael gets a little bit tense.

One seems to me to fo..."

Letter of the law, vs the spirit of the law: bingo! YES. Exactly.

I never purposefully set out to write a work of fiction to a 'message.' Ever....but the works themselves tend to explore issues that are meaningful to me....spirit of the law, VS letter of the law played very large in this book, by natural extrapolation. Taskin is answerable to the King and the Law, both. The King can override by direct order, but his king is failing. When the king does not rule, then, the council does until Kailen or the next successor is validated. So Taskin is treading a very fine line, knowing what he may want to do/but being unable to count on his sovereign's backing. In this scene you mention - if you are there - he is bucking the will of the COUNCIL and to get them to back off he needs hard evidence/a lawful curb on their power. If all goes wrong, and that curb is discredited, he has no standing at all/could be charged with obstruction by that same council.

I always prefer SPIRIT of the law - what was that 'law' written to protect - go with the moral/humanitarian angle of justice provided that the law was soundly based in human rights/right action to start with, and provided that the spirit of the law as interpreted by the person enacting the chose is rooted in compassionate wisdom.

Law as written cannot possibly cover ALL individual circumstances - there is always that loop hole, that ideological drive to bend it in favor of cause (just or not) or politics (hopelessly insane/decisions by faction and committee)....there are always folks trying to make the law work for THEM. To defeat its purpose of equity and justice/sound choice.

So Taskin, his ability to check the seneschal's short sightedness and the councils manipulation or vulnerability to same: his strength IS the root of the law, and where he cannot thwart it, he can put the brakes on/slow down implementation until he can get the King on his side.

And spirit vs letter: it comes down to who gives the orders/where their moral or immoral priorities lie and THEN - as the dedication states: it falls to the morality of the grunt given that order: do they follow blindly, or do they take a stand when that order is on the wrong side of history. The grunt holds the power, then; and the courage of the choice. Of making that choice when they may never be vindicated. May not even succeed.

Taskin makes his final choice with Mykkael (view spoiler)[ in the honest belief that he WILL be vindicated when he comes in and makes a statement in person. Mykkael fully understands the evil is beyond bounds, and that he would not return alive. Taskin underestimates (probably) the gravity of the situation, and certainly has no concept, yet, of how dreadful the enemy really is. So I saw both men entirely making 'right' choices based upon what they know, verifiably, as the truth. And we've seen how harshly the pressure has fallen on Taskin - he is tired, pushed to the brink, carrying a very very large share of responsibility on a subject he's had to learn from scratch, and still not fully grasp - he DOES make errors, which later he recognizes - too much information, come on him way too fast, and truly, he is carrying the whole weight of the King's responsibility to hold the council, nobles, kingdom stable against very bad odds. Money and politics are hard against he - so he's negotiating to hold what he can/where smaller minds or pack thinking would drive the whole off the brink. He KNOWS he has no second in command with his astute grasp of leadership and acumen....a good man, over faced, doing his best - with too little facts and no REAL knowledge of Mykkael to base his choices on. He's skating blind over thin ice, and he knows it - with the council's decisions the real disaster he's trying to curb - so his thinking is 'split' on where the best defense of the kingdom truly lies - and he is NOT wrong: lose the council, he's lost the war from the inside. (hide spoiler)]

Themes like these crop up a lot (for me) in any suspensful conflict - as they do in real life. When is the 'individual' stance the right road (Arithon, based in the moment) or 'the greater good' - the bigger picture based on 'means to an end' even if it means individuals fall for it - (Lysaer) - The Wars of Light and Shadows blends this theme into the greater story - spirit of the law, vs letter of the law/immediate, individual good VS 'good' based on the masses - which is true?

I enjoy playing the characters against such depths, it gives the story more depth of meaning as these are issues societies and nations and individuals wrestle with every single day. The impacts of choices - vs surrounding circumstances - the ground underneath is always fluid. It takes 'king Solomon's' depth of wisdom to sort - and the blanket choices of 'cause' - too often fall way far short. We are human, and every issue has a complexity of sides....attachment to an agenda automatically blinds, but in the heat of the moment, how often do we rise above that?

Janny, thank you so much for answering these questions so thoughtfully, and thank you Laura for asking them!

Your answer about spirit vs. letter raised a writing process question for me. You mentioned that you don't write toward a "message" with your books, but that you do end up exploring issues that are important to you, and that resonates with me. It's very much along the lines of Keats' view of Shakespeare and "negative capability," the great artist as more exploratory than didactic.

But anyway, you also said that "I always prefer SPIRIT of the law," and of course when exploring an issue we do come to it with... let's say "leanings" rather than "biases"... so how do you personally keep that space for exploration in your writing?

John, it's a very complicated and complex issue, beginning with why a 'law' was written to start with. Is it repressive, expansive, compassionate, designed to encourage equity and fairness, or was it written to protect, to draw lines in the sand based on fear, to control for what reasons....a law written by a coward will discourage independent thought, a law written by a greedy man will protect that greed...so the first step is to understand why the rule was designed in the first place.

Then look at its impact - individually, across a wide spectrum. How does it affect people, the environment, the whole picture REALLY - and how is it being 'used' as a tool to repress something it was never designed for.

To do that, one must look at a multiplicity of viewpoints and scenarios - and a book like Hell's Chasm automatically is positioned to do just that - with a wide slice of live/characters from multiple cultural and societal viewpoints, it's pretty easy to let their foibles run wild and see what the encounter with that 'rule' or prejudice produces....and how each experience changes them, or stiffens them to dig in and stay in place.

The wider the disparities between characters and situations, then, the more you get to see how the 'spirit' of that law plays out...and if it IS working to right intention, or if its intention (or prejudiced angle) was just flat wrong to begin with.

Laws, like individuals, will have strengths and flaws. They MUST be weighed carefully in EACH applied situation: because just like people, one day, in one scenario, their strengths will save the day...and in another, they'll make an obstreperous mess, if not precipitate an outright failure.

General Patton was precisely the man to command troops in WWII for the allies - but you would absolutely want to chain him to a post rather than let him anywhere near the peace table negotiations.

The more flexible the character, the more varied their strengths...but also, the LESS effective they'd be, say, if their glaring embarrassment of a flaw was JUST what was needed - Taskin could never have pulled off what Bertarra does (you'll see if you haven't got there) - and the Seneschal's rigid propriety was more compassionate towards Kailen's rebellious tangle of resentment and irresponsibilities than Mykkael or Taskin could ever have been.

So the spirit of the law takes a very broad overview, and a huge heart, and a lot of open-minded care to sift out. A great deal more than most people with an 'invested interest' care to pursue.

It's said that a person with an agenda is NEVER the trustworthy one. That ability to pull back and look at an issue from many angles with clear sight - our society does not tend to teach this, and in many cases encourage it. One faceted, didactic ideas of 'right' and 'wrong' cause a lot of people pain - and with the speed and anxiety of modern life, contemplation isn't something we're given much space for.

Books can do that very well....as our societies rub against each other on a global scale, we have a choice: to learn better ways to understand each other, or to stay in our shells and bash it out.

I would think more pursuit of the spirit of the law, and all of its many facets and angles would make for a happier outlook for all. Particularly since our biases are handed to us from childhood, unquestioned - it's a pretty toxic mix, taken verbatim without further thought.

Thank you so much for the answer Janny.

There are so many issues you seem to address in this book. Now I don't know if I'm getting them all right, but I can easily spot prejudice and intolerance, judgemental words and reactions, a clash of cultural customs.

This book affects me on a personal level. It makes me angry at the way Mykkael is treated by everyone just because he is different. It makes me angry because people judge others so fast by appearances and frustrated because I can't see any way to change that.

How many themes are you addressing in this book exactly? And what is the message you are trying to convey with it?

Laura wrote: "Thank you so much for the answer Janny.

There are so many issues you seem to address in this book. Now I don't know if I'm getting them all right, but I can easily spot prejudice and intolerance, ..."

Primarily I was trying to tell a good story...along the way, all of that other stuff crept in, as it rightly should have - given an experienced, worldly character dropped into a crisis in a setting that is insular and homogenous....what moves people to look outside their own circle of mores and experience? What happens to them when they NEVER had to see past their own culture, and suddenly, a problem lands on them that is so far outside of their imagining - how will they respond under that pressure? In any crisis, in any crowd of random people - some will step forward, and others freeze, and others, outright retreat/and cover their timidity with bluster. So all of those qualities would rise to the surface.

I have jokingly said everything but the kitchen sink got chucked into the stew of themes that arose out of this book.

All of those themes arose naturally from the mix of characters and setting - I was not trying to convey any message, only spark understanding of the characters' various experiences. And out of that, then, if more empathy and thought arises, so much the better, put the story was always the primary focus.

I love those stories best that not only carry great action and have a spectacular cast of characters pitched against provocative events - but those books that spark thought in the aftershock - books that give rise to a wider view of life....so it isn't surprising that there is this underlying current of depths surfacing in the characters' interactions.

How many themes? Besides how quickly human beings leap to assupmtions of judgment, how they fear 'differences'? Treatment of animals plays in this book pretty big: that they are all individuals and not just some'thing' to be used for expediency. Spirit of the law vs letter of the law - that too. Cultural backgrounds that differ also having equal validity, no matter their different approachs and belief systems....respect for that plays pretty big. There are more....but I will let you discover those for yourself.

Thank you for the reply Janny. I'll probably come back to this and ask some more a little later as we get into the story. Hope you don't mind.

For now may I ask a question even though it may be a bit silly?

We were discussing Mykkael's name and the way everyone else is pronouncing it as well as the reason behind that.
There is also one instance in Chapter 11 when Taskin is deviating from his regular use of Myshkael and says Mykkael at the time he wants him to submit. Was that on purpose or just a typo? And if was indeed on purpose, could you please tell us why? And perhaps elaborate a little on the pronounciation of his name in general. Why the difference?

You can ask any question or return to any question you want, anytime.

I am chuckling so hard - NO TYPO! Great grief, I'm so careful with language...the shift in Taskin's pronunciation was so totally deliberate/ Here's why:

He's an aristocrat - all the 'upper crust' in Sessalie have that 'fashionable lisp" so they all mush right over the hard consonants in Mykkael's name.

Only Taskin is AWARE of that affectation - he's not so sunk into his narrow view of the world that he's blind to differences....he'd not bother to use what would be considered a commoner's pronunciation - unless it was a tactical choice.

His shift in pronunciation was a detail he used to shock Mykkael's awareness into a recognition: that he was not blind to the man, or the subtleties of his origins - he was making that appeal to the heart of the man to LISTEN and see past (perhaps) Mykkael's prejudice - not as his superior officer/but stepping to the level of an equal - making that appeal 'real' in a way that transcended the 'apparent' difference in station.

And it got Mykkael's attention: forced him to re-think/to pause/to reflect for that fraction of a second when things were fast sliding out of hand.

Totally deliberate: on my part and Taskin's.

And now I'm chuckling. 😁😁
Thank you for the clarification Janny.
To think that we were all debating over here (me especially) about that name whether it was said differently on purpose or because of hearsay or innability to pronounce.

Next time I'll follow John's advice and ask before making a disertation. :D

Hi Janny

We've reached the part describing Mykkael as a man who prefers integrity before honour. A very fine line between these 2 at times.

Would you mind telling us more about this?

Laura wrote: "Hi Janny

We've reached the part describing Mykkael as a man who prefers integrity before honour. A very fine line between these 2 at times.

Would you mind telling us more about this?"

Surely. It's pretty straightforward. A rote promise made for what seems like a sound, moral reason at time might not fit under a different circumstance. Whole integrity might demand going back on that given word - where 'honor' would slavishly adhere to the first, Mykkael's character would reject the rigid principle (based on given word/blind loyalty) in favor of compassion/right choice in the moment.

Janny I love how much detail you give in your answers. Feel free to keep answering :) but as its the close of the month I'm doing my duties and thanking you from us all :D

Helen wrote: "Janny I love how much detail you give in your answers. Feel free to keep answering :) but as its the close of the month I'm doing my duties and thanking you from us all :D"

Thank you, Helen, and the group, it's been an honor and a pleasure.

I will be here for late coming questions if any arise.

Been with this group nearly (?) a decade, so no way I'm going anywhere.

Hi Janny

John and I will probably keep reading this book together at our slow pace and will be also asking some more questions as we go if that's ok.

The one I have for today is a big WHY. :)

Why did Taskin make that choice at dawn that day? What was behind that decision that seems to be so right and yet, at the same time, wrong? Wasn't there any other choice?

Laura wrote: "Hi Janny

John and I will probably keep reading this book together at our slow pace and will be also asking some more questions as we go if that's ok.

The one I have for today is a big WHY. :)

Wh..."

Because of chain of command: the king is top dog, but he's not coherent or available. The council can overturn Taskin, if the King is not competent, and that loss of control at this critical moment is not something Taskin dares to risk. (view spoiler)[ He required PROOF that the council would accept to back them down or stall them; and lacking that, he didn't think the threat would escalate that fast....nor was he totally certain himself. So lack of knowledge, underestimating a threat he did not have the experience to weigh; added to the awareness he could lose the upper hand to hysterical politics, and fast, added on to pressure that's frankly over his head - caused a bad decision. If you re-check the prior scene with the King - even the King was not entirely certain. He left the guarding of the gate, in the ongoing crisis, in Taskin's hands....human imperfections in war bring drastic consequences all the time; and remember, he does not know what Jussoud knows; they never talked directly about what had caused Mykkael to defect from the first do'aa (which would not release him/the 'secrets' are kept by death/the only way forward for Mykkael to mediate the danger of his training was to defect and re-enlist, as it were, under false pretenses). So Mykkael felt the situation was already out of hand; no hearing would exonerate him. He felt: if he gave over HIS control to the council's or surrendered at ALL, he'd wind up trapped - the enemy was unmasked, the princess unprotected. It was a terrible crux for them both. (hide spoiler)]

Janny, I love the way you just keep going. I can honestly say they're only a very few authors that give to your fans the way you do. Your one of my favourites for so many reasons. Thank you.

Tnkw01 wrote: "Janny, I love the way you just keep going. I can honestly say they're only a very few authors that give to your fans the way you do. Your one of my favourites for so many reasons. Thank you."

You're welcome, it's truly my pleasure. I'm strapped to the desk on a long, hard polish - a novella related to the bigger series - so it's no difficulty, but a delightful break from brain frying concentration. This is a great group, I love the lot of you!

And we totally love you!!

First a very big THANK YOU Janny for remaining here with John and me. It means a lot. :)

I'd like to ask another question if that's ok, this time regarding the tribes mentioned here, particularly their faith. At one time Mykkael says 'Mehigrania forgive' and from the glossary I saw that she is a goddess of the Scoraign tribes. Could you please tell us a little more about the tribes and their faith?