Fantasy Book Club discussion

I've already started it and really enjoing it so far.

This month we also have a Author's Q&A so feel free to check it out!

So I read this in November of last year and rated it 5 stars. It was a really great ride. I hope to contribute to the discussion.

I read it late last year as well. Might do a re-read if I can find the time :)

I've re-read it a couple times. It's in my top 3 stand-alone novels. But I have to say nothing is like reading it for that first time, because it was so much more than what I expected.

Greg wrote: "I've re-read it a couple times. It's in my top 3 stand-alone novels. But I have to say nothing is like reading it for that first time, because it was so much more than what I expected."

Oh, it certainly was. It was really hard to put down at times.

I also read it recently -- last month because I misunderstood how calendars work … Really enjoyed it.

I read this one in 2012 and really liked it. Wondering what else I should read by the author?

Katy wrote: "I read this one in 2012 and really liked it. Wondering what else I should read by the author?"

The Master of Whitestorm is really good as is Sorcerer's Legacy, her first book. Both are stand-alones. I'm partial to short stories, so I also really liked That Way Lies Camelot.

Plus there is a trilogy. Then the saga :)

I've read it few months back and absolutely loved it. Jumped straight into the Wars of Light and Shadows afterwards. Which, I have to say, is a fantastic series.
Might do a re-read this month if I can find the time. :)

Being new to the group I don't know how things roll over here. So I'd like to ask, how do we discuss a book like this? Do we finish reading and then talk about it towards the end of the month in another thread? Or do we talk about it as we read?

In the other thread you can openly chat. If you want to comment on something in chapter three, use this thread but hide it under a spoiler.

Thank you Helen. 😊

I am starting it today and will post the spoilers from the very first chapters here then move to the other thread.

I absolutely loved this book at the first read and am eager to see if I'll feel the same the second time when I'm taking it a lot slower.

Mykkael is among my all time favourite heroes. Does anyone else fancy him also? Or am I the only one falling for broken noble MCs?

Laura wrote: "Mykkael is among my all time favourite heroes. Does anyone else fancy him also? Or am I the only one falling for broken noble MCs? "

I really liked Mykkael as well during my first read. I'm always a stickler for broken characters but noble ones? They tend to annoy me with their moral values (gosh, I sound like a horrible person xD).
Mykkael did not, however, get on my nerves.

He is different isn't he? One would have the tendency at first to clasify him as a stereotype - broken hero saves the day - but he seems so much more than that and I can't really put my finger on the why.
I think what I love most in him is that, despite the hero part, he's not perfect. He seems very real.

Yes, he feels very real. His inner struggle and his doubts are well depicted IMO.
Probably won't have time for a re-read but I'll try and follow your progress, Laura. I'll read your spoilers and participate with what I remember from the tale ;)

Am I the only one reading this? :(

Don't know... It's a bit surprising since there were more than 70 votes (with 18 for this book).

If you're OK with a very, very, very slow reading partner (think 2 chapters a day max :p), I'll accompany you.

I'd like that Virginie. It's kind of ... not very nice being the lone ranger over here.

There are so many great things in this book! Cultural differences and conflicting beliefs, hatred and prejudice, moral and ethics, right and wrong, all told in a wonderful language and with the help of amazingly complex characters. I was hoping I'd get a few reading buddies to gush about all that. :(

Laura wrote: "I'd like that Virginie. It's kind of ... not very nice being the lone ranger over here."

Yeah, I can understand that. I'm not reading very fast these days, and by the time I'm far enough in the story to start commenting, everyone's done discussing xD

So now, I'm commenting every chapter! Slow and steady chatty wins the race!

Laura wrote: "There are so many great things in this book! Cultural differences and conflicting beliefs, hatred and prejudice, moral and ethics, right and wrong, all told in a wonderful language and with the hel..."

Agreed! To be honest, it took me forever to read this book the first time because Janny's prose, though lovely, is so complex it had me using my Kindle dictionary every sentence :p (My primary language is French) But I'll be able to focus more on the themes than the language with a re-read! :D :D

I started reading this a few years ago but didn't finish. Perhaps this would be a good time to revisit it, since we seem to be short on readers this month.

John wrote: "I started reading this a few years ago but didn't finish. Perhaps this would be a good time to revisit it, since we seem to be short on readers this month."

That would be great John. I'd appreciate the company. :)

For the warriors,
may they keep their hearts open.
For those who make decisions and hold sway
over others,
may they do the same only more so.
And for all who have given or lost their lives
because one or the other fell short -
this story.

I love this dedication. Because it goes so well not only for the book, but also for our everyday lives. We all have our wars to fight and perhaps someone to either lead or follow. And we all fail because either one or the other fall short at times.

Chapter 1

I adore Mykkael - As if I didn't say it 100 times before. :D
His thunderous temper and strong will combined with that so very well hidden vulnerability! I wanna give him a big hug but he'll probably be too proud to accept it. :)

The fact that he is despised for his skin colour and "breeding" pisses me off from the very beginning. (view spoiler)[ 'his dark skin raised contempt' and he knows it - so I keep wondering will I be able to do what Mykkael does?! Do my duty with my head held high despite being despised by almost everyone around me? (hide spoiler)]
I like King Isedon. Despite his frail appearance I could swear he is a very smart and shrewd old man.
And Taskin - still reserved about him now, in the beginning, because (view spoiler)[ he seems so prejudiced but still he calls in Mykkael even though he considers him a "misbegotten southern mongrel". He is able to see past Mykkael's breeding and admit that he does a good job. (hide spoiler)]
So not so bad Taskin! Not so bad at all!

Chapter 1

This chapter really sets the stage for us, quickly giving us a sense of the setting and the characters.

And it's filled with contrasts. There's Mykkael and Taskin: outsider vs. insider, the one who had to earn his position through a yearly contest vs the one who inherited it, below the gate vs. above the gate, dark vs light features... and yet there are parallels, too. Both have been portrayed as competent and dedicated, and it seems already set up that they'll need to work together.

In insular Sessalie, Mykkael isn't the only outsider we see in the first chapter: there's also the crown prince of Deval. Being outsiders, of course, is the only thing they have in common. One is welcomed, the other tolerated; high status vs low status; a future that's set up vs needing to somehow cobble together enough to retire (and given his lame leg, sooner rather than later).

The absent princess is, herself, portrayed in terms of contrasts: unpredictable and prone to pranks, vs dedicated to her land and people, bright and capable. And that contrast is the hinge for the initial uncertainty about what has happened to her: has she left on her own, or been taken? No one is quite sure, though we the reader appear to have a clue with the glimpse at a distressed woman in a closet at the top of chapter 1.

We see conflict between Mykkael and those who look down on him based on his origins; conflict between Taskin and the seneschal; and more generally politics in the court of a king whose mental and physical health appears to be declining rapidly.

I also couldn't help but notice that the titular Hell's Chasm gets a mention early: "The flume that threaded that dreadful terrain was nothing if not a deathtrap. Foolish prospectors sometimes came, pursuing gold and minerals. They died to a man, slaughtered by hungry kerries, or else drowned in the rapids, their smashed bones spewed out amid the boil of dirty froth that thundered down the mouth of Hell's Chasm." As much as we're firmly planted in the city right now, it's hard to ignore the meta-fictional cues that we'll get to explore this "deathtrap" before it's all said and done!

BTW, Laura: thank you for calling attention to the dedication. I think I would have skipped right past it into chapter 1 if you hadn't quoted it.

I hadn't paid that much attention to the contrasts also John. Thank you for pointing them out. :) They are pretty clear when you sit and think about it.

And that mention of the deathtrap does seem to point out at future dark events.

How do you like the characters so far?
And how would you like to read this? I'll keep pace so we can chat. :D

Re: the characters, I should make clear up front that I'm not going from a blank slate here: according to where my book mark is, I made it to ch. 32 a couple years ago before getting sidetracked. I've forgotten a lot of the details, but I, too, really like Mykkael.

Re: pace. I could probably commit to a chapter or two per day, at least for now. We're trying to sell our house and move, so whenever that happens (or we give up and move without selling), things will no doubt get hectic. But until then, let's press on!

Chapter 2:

(view spoiler)[The king seems fairly coherent: is this a good spell, or are rumors of his decline rather exaggerated?

We see that Mykkael and Taskin are basically on the same page as they decide what to do next. But we also see clearly that they are not equals, and Taskin won't treat him as though they are. Yet he also doesn't treat him badly--he's just hard on everyone, apparently.

Unlike some of his men, who try to embarrass or haze him or whatever.

We also get to see more of Mykkael's background and the wider world of sorcery that's been alluded to already. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3:

(view spoiler)[Again, Taskin is harsh but not unfair. In fact, though he's rather abrupt and not inclined to explain himself, he takes care of Mykkael physically by summoning Jussoud to care for his leg. How did you understand that scene, by the way? I felt a bit unclear about the dynamics here. On the one hand, Taskin appears to be caring for Mykkael, getting him this treatment. But he's provoked to rage by Taskin's order to strip. This is in preparation for the treatment, though Taskin doesn't deign to explain what's coming. Does Mykkael understand this as a type of hazing or humiliation? Why doesn't Taskin explain himself or have more care for his discomfort? Or is Mykkael extra sensitive to this exposure, either because of a cultural difference or because it will expose the scars on his back from lashings?

All in all, Taskin seems to be well-informed about Mykkael's background and reveals what he knows in an apparent effort to make it clear to his men that Mykkael isn't someone they should distrust.

Just an interesting aside to note that as much as Mykkael has already been shown to be in many ways more worldly than at least the average soldier in this insular kingdom, with broader knowledge about sorcerors and languages and such, he's ignorant enough to use the camel liniment on the word of the person who sold it to him.

And we see Mykkael's wild talent manifest, giving him a glimpse into the princess's current location and condition. (hide spoiler)]

One tiny detail that I liked -- the way that none of the locals could pronounce Mykkael's name correctly, but instead kept calling him Mysh-kael.

Joseph wrote: "One tiny detail that I liked -- the way that none of the locals could pronounce Mykkael's name correctly, but instead kept calling him Mysh-kael."

I liked that too. Though to me it seemed a bit more like they didn't want to pronounce it properly but kept to their own way of pronunciation.

I did myself come across a lot of different ways to pronounce a name from the time I settled in India. Part of it was due to the inability of pronouncing harsher consonants of Latin languages but most of it was due to the fact that "their way of telling was RIGHT."
For instance, the names of historical personalities that my kid is learning about in school - I used to get so wild in the beginning because he kept coming back from school and telling me: "your way of pronouncing it is bad mama! It's like this. The teacher said so. You have to pronounce it this way not your way!"
By now I've gotten sort of used to it and letting it all go because, well, what's the use? The only thing I'll manage to accomplish by sticking to my way is making my kid's teacher think I'm trying to prove I'm smarter and make her look bad. And that was just one example.

So there you go - a cultural conundrum that I still can't solve. :)

@John - first of all, all the best for selling your house. I hope it will work out.
And I don't envy you the shifting. I really hate doing that. You do have a lot of work in store for you.

Chapters 2 and 3

(view spoiler)[Mykkael and Taskin sort of remind me of 2 fight-bread pitbulls with hackles raised assessing each other and then deciding they'd better fight together against the bigger threat.

Taskin set himself above Mykkael expecting to be obeyed and Mykkael grudgingly bows to it because he knows there's no other way to work together. After all, the King didn't order Mykkael to obey Taskin. He just asked for Mykkael's vow to find the princess and keep her safe. That in itself is another sign that Mykkael may break the self-set leash to Taskin if the need arises.

To me, they are both equals. But when 2 alphas work together one has to bow down to the other, if not the fight will surely start. So Mykkael bows down, knowing he is the outsider and has no other choice. But he isn't cowed. We can easily see that from the way he assesses Taskin's order to strip. He agrees with the order because it will give the rest of the people the opportunity to see he has no tattoos that may mark him as a shaman. (which seems to scare the shit out of everybody there).

That stripping scene, I again saw as a need to prove who's in charge. Taskin could have easily waited for Jussoud to come and only then ordered Mykkael to strip, ior let Jussoud ask for it; but he made it a public show. I also believe he meant well as Mykkael obviously needed the treatment but Taskin needed to prove he's in charge as well as to show the rest of his men that the desert-bred is not a threat or an enemy. After all, what shaman or enemy will strip and stay at their mercy like Mykkael did.

Don't know if I got it right, but this is how it all felt to me.

The king - he either has an illness that takes him out at times and lets him be coherent at others, or it is all a sham to make people believe he's a doddering fool while he's quietly observing and judging. I remember thinking this during my first read.

And I was wondering about that camel liniment also. Why in the world would he use it? Either he didn't know (which does make him pretty ignorant) or he knows but cannot get his hands on anything else to help with the pain.

One more little detail that stood out for me was Mykkael's meeting Bertarra.
The first thing she asked was: 'That's why you bought this one? To sweep our sewers for two-legged rats? What did you promise for his compensation? A well-set marriage to raise his mean standing?" And that whyle Mykkael was standing right next to them. If this isn't a slap right on the face, I don't know what is.
And I loved Mykkael's reply ending with 'That should require an endowment of land as incentive to shoulder the bother.' That effectively shut her up. And I thought to myself - you deserve it lady! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 4

The name - Even Taskin keeps telling Mysh-kael. And Taskin respects Mykkael. So that makes me wonder: Is that the locals can not pronounce Mykkael's name correctly, or they just assume that's the right way of pronounciantion and use it because Mykkael doesn't bother to correct them?

I don't know how Mykkael could remain so calm an collected when (view spoiler)[he found the delegation of Devall's apparent heir trampling all over his room. I would have gotten so angry!!!!
And I loved the way he made it clear to them that he was the High-King's man and no other's. (hide spoiler)]

Is it just me seeing it or is there a certain amount of distrust between Taskin and Mykkael. Mykkael (view spoiler)[ didn't mention the horses in his vision and he is separately trying to find the princess with the help of the trapper. (hide spoiler)]

I like the little game between the 2 sides: Mykkael's men and Taskin's men, each trying to outfox the other.


btw. Are we supposed to move on the other thread now?

I was just thinking that we should probably move to the other thread! I'll leave my comment for Chapter 4 here and then we can go to the "spoilers" thread (though, to my mind, the fact that we're putting up chapter headings makes it pretty clear how far one should read to avoid any "spoilers").

Regarding your reading of chapter 2 & 3, that sounds basically plausible, though I didn't get a vibe from Taskin that he needs to "prove" his authority to anyone. He's been bred to it, and while as a commander he is obliged to take a hard line with any challenges to his authority. Whether he was entirely serious or not, Mykkael acknowledges this when he says that any mercenary commander would have given him five lashes rather than one. But anyway, I do like your take on the scene.

As for the pronunciation, I'm thinking that Sessalie is so insular and his name is so foreign that they almost can't even perceive the correct pronunciation if they ever heard it, and most of them just hear each other pronouncing it.

Chapter 4:

(view spoiler)[I don't necessarily see it as distrust between the two, it's more that they each have their spheres and do what needs to be done within them. That is, I don't think Taskin would disapprove of him bringing a huntsman into it, he just wouldn't necessarily think of it himself and he's delegating the specifics to Mykkael. The key to me is that when the whole "omg this woman was killed with sorcery!" thing comes up, and the men go right back to suspecting Mykkael, this doesn't seem to open up any suspicions in Taskin, and actively works to quash them among the men: "No man mentions sorcery unless we have proof. The same rule applies to the matter of Myshkael's integrity."

I appreciated the characterization of Taskin mid-chapter, starting with "The adrenaline prickle of raised hair at the nape was not a sensation Captain Taskin experienced often..." down to "Taskin preferred the controlled clarity of sharp wits, applied with objective reason." We've had the indication that he's a master swordsman, that he is physically very capable, but as the commander, he's more of a chess player than a chess piece. Which is as it should be. Mykkael, by way of contrast is kind of the opposite. While Taskin is personally capable but leans toward commanding, Mykkael seems like a capable commander who leans toward acting himself (hence ditching his escort and going off to rouse the huntsman, rather than sending someone out there, say).

This chapter was another full of parallels and contrasts, as we see each of them working in their own way, but each encounters a murder of a woman for which Mykkael is someone's idea of a likely suspect. (hide spoiler)]

Can you add spoiler tags, in case anyone skims something they haven’t read yet? Thanks.

Done Helen. Sorry about that. :(

No worries :)