ManBookering discussion

This thread is for discussion of Everything Under by Daisy Johnson.

Please be considerate of spoilers when posting your thoughts. Either use the spoiler tag or make it clear at the top of your comment that you will be posting specific details of the story.

Happy reading & discussing!

Just finished it - now this is the kind of book I want to discover on a Booker list! This text is the reworking of a Greek tragedy (which one? (view spoiler)[ Oedipus Rex (hide spoiler)]), a horror/ghost story, and a hall of mirrors - Daisy Johnson knows how to write exciting experimental fiction! As the novel progresses, the mythological source becomes clear, but she twists and turns the story and introduces a whole cabinet of doppelgängers, mirror images, and shape-shifting ghosts. Recurring topics are the nature of fear and the question whether there is something like destiny - and have I mentioned that the way she employs the natural surroundings of a river to illustrate and strengthen her story is simply fantastic?

Here's my review.

Started this last night and so far I am impressed.

Me, too. Started last night and it was a very welcome change after finishing Snap a few hours earlier. Looking forward to more today. Got mine from NetGalley and, for once, the “send to Kindle” seems to have worked so I don’t need to read on my iPad.

Loving this so far. A book of the liminal, legend and lexicography.

I am reading this very slowly. It is worth taking time over.

Loved this! Top of my ranking after seven books.

I finished this yesterday too and was very impressed. I just put together a list of reviews (all of them 5-star) for a Tweet, so I thought I'd share it here:
Meike
Neil
Gumble's Yard
Jonathan
Hugh

Thanks, Hugh!!

The writing is beautiful (despite some silly statements like "Old people are a species of their own" that are scattered throughout the book), and atmospheric. But unfortunately, the story didnt work for me at all. (view spoiler)[Admittedly, it was a page turning read, mainly due to the suspense novel-structure with time jumps, shifting perspectives and many (many!) cliffhangers ("and then she told me"), after which - in old fashioned Patterson-style - the reader has to wait at least another two chapters until the clue is finally revealed.
But the book never quite made up its mind what it wanted to be or which story it wanted to tell and so it ended up telling too many which left most of them half-empty. The retelling of the Oedipus-myth would have been quite enough to fill the book, and maybe if this story had been given a little more thought and had been developped properly, the often hilarious literal transformation to the present could have been avoided. Imagine: you're a 16 year old teenager in the late 1990ies and your neighbour-friend who is a bit off but whom you like tells you after a birthday party that "you will kill your father and have sex with your mother". Of course you will have no doubts as to the truthfulness of this statement and so you pack your bags and leave the next day. Really? And then you just happen to stumble across your real father while wandering about the countryside... Again: really? (Greek mythology might get away with coincidences like this but a contemporary novelist doesn't.)
The cluttering of the book with references to Grimm's Hänsel & Gretel plus the many half-developped sideplots - from finding a stray dog and child neglect to lexicography and how to deal with Alzheimer's - didnt help making the story more believable. Neither did the fact that Oedipus was a young girl dressing up as a boy. Some readers might call this 'layererd' storytelling but for me it was just muddled.
And finally, in what felt like an attempt to clean up the mess, two of our main characters (Markus/Margot and Sarah) are simply killed off. And no, thats neither part of the Oedipus-story (the father is dead already) nor does it make much sense; but the book had to end somehow, right, and with only one main character alive (Gretel) the ending was swift and neat. And as for Gretel: she just goes back to her life. Of course. What else would you do after an adventure like this. (hide spoiler)]
2*

Britta, I think Johnson never intended to write a realistic book in the first place, just like the Greek myth and the fairy tales she is working with are not meant to be read as realistic stories - they use other aesthetic means to discuss their topics. And why shouldn't contemporary novelists be allowed to do that as well? In experimental fiction, I expect the writer to suprise me with innovative, edgy decisions to tell her story.

Still, I see that when you are not into that kind of storytelling, you woulndn't like this book.

Britta, I completely understand that you (and others) do not like this book. That's fine. But I don't understand

"Greek mythology might get away with coincidences like this but a contemporary novelist doesn't."

Why can't novelists today do that? It seems to me that we want novelists to do everything possible to tell us a good story and I wouldn't want to rule anything out.

Neil wrote: "Britta, I completely understand that you (and others) do not like this book. That's fine. But I don't understand

"Greek mythology might get away with coincidences like this but a contemporary nove..."

Yes, any novelist can do whatever they like, but for me, a string of unlikely coincidences just isn't good story. Sorry!

Meike wrote: "Britta, I think Johnson never intended to write a realistic book in the first place, just like the Greek myth and the fairy tales she is working with are not meant to be read as realistic stories -..."

That's precisely why I think the book is flawed: if you want to tell a fairy tale, tell a fairy tale, but the mix of mythology and realism just didn't work for me. Mainly because I think the magical part was too flimsy, and should have been emphasized much more.

It is interesting the way we all see books differently. I think the mix of mythology and realism is what captivated some of us. And once you allow mythology into the mix, you can have as many coincidences as you like!

I'm with Neil on this: I don't think there should be rules or boundaries regarding how to tell a story, and the aim of experimental fiction is to break down any limitations. Of course it's possible to not enjoy this though.

@neil: Yes, indeed, viewing books very differently makes the discussion all the more interesting. And: I'm happy for those of you who loved the book!

I can see where you are coming from Britta, but I never expected this book to be believable - indeed I think it is largely about where the power of such myths comes from, and in the end I allowed myself to go along with it. It will be very interesting to see what Johnson does next...

Hugh wrote: "I can see where you are coming from Britta, but I never expected this book to be believable - indeed I think it is largely about where the power of such myths comes from, and in the end I allowed m..."

Oh, I'm definetely interested in what Johnson does next as well!

Meike wrote: "I'm with Neil on this: I don't think there should be rules or boundaries regarding how to tell a story, and the aim of experimental fiction is to break down any limitations. Of course it's possible..."

Oh, I'm all for experimental fiction! (I didn't think this book was all that experimental, though). I guess the difference between us is that for me, the retelling of a myth does have to 'make sense' in the setting that is chosen, i.e it should make sense to the reader even if he/she has never heard of the myth that is used as the premise.

On the subject of coincidence, I am with Marvel.

“It was a coincidence, but he was not a man who scoffed at coincidence.”

Gabriel, this book has hardly any political topicality, so don't worry! (I generally wish the list would be more political, but well...)

I hope you'll like it! :-)

I am with Meike; on a longlist chosen largely to reflect "a world in the brink" (the judges words) this is one of the few books on the list which is more timeless.

Oddly one of the others is Snap but please don't take that as a recommendation to read it!

Here's my review:

https://deucekindred.wordpress.com/20...

Sunita wrote: "I just finished a couple of days ago and still have to write a proper review, but I'm definitely in the minority on this one. The prose is lovely at times, but the book suffers from debut novel fla..."

Sunita, I am right there with you. Only 14 pages in and already I feel similarly. Will keep an open mind and allow room for pleasant surprises but already this feels unpolished; fresh but immature, experimental but rather sloppy.

David wrote: "Sunita wrote: "I just finished a couple of days ago and still have to write a proper review, but I'm definitely in the minority on this one. The prose is lovely at times, but the book suffers from ..."

And me as well! :-)

I’m with Sunita on this. Once the myth was figured out it was just repetitive and frankly boring. There wasn’t a character who felt believable enough to invoke empathy. I was looking forward to this one. Hugely disappointing.

This book wasn't for me at all, I did like the writing and infact thought it was beautiful however I found this book a bit tedious and boring and skimmed a lot of it....that being said I know it's just down to my reading taste....I wouldn't mind if this made the shortlist x

The writing is good. I felt like it needed an editor to take it in hand and pare back the many plot threads that suddenly needed to be resolved in 20 pages.