Time Travel discussion

The Fall of Hyperion

In the stunning continuation of the epic adventure begun in Hyperion, Simmons returns us to a far future resplendent with drama and invention. On the world of Hyperion, the mysterious Time Tombs are opening. And the secrets they contain mean that nothing--nothing anywhere in the universe--will ever be the same.

Anyone is welcome to read along. This is book two of the Hyperion Cantos. Book 1, Hyperion discussion is posted here For anyone who wants to read and catch up.

Since everyone will be reading at a different pace, please remember to use spoiler tags.

I'm only at about 4% in. I accidentally got dragged into another book by reading the first paragraph. Oops!

Amy wrote: "I'm only at about 4% in. I accidentally got dragged into another book by reading the first paragraph. Oops!"

Bwahahahaha

I have Summer of Night sitting here. That’s next on my list. So after that I will get to this one.

Wow, you really are binging (or bingeing?) on Dan Simmons!

I am probably only about 5% in at the moment. The problem with the CD's is that I have no real idea of where I am, especially as the chapters don't appear to be displaying properly on the AV screen in the car.

It’s just one of those things. I didn’t plan it! Group reads are too tempting sometimes.

I liked this one as much as the first one. The construction of the book was different - not so much like the Canterbury Tales - and I thought the conflict between the different factions was interesting - and does anyone else want gates to other worlds, with a river running through them? Fascinating!

I think i'm about 20% of the way through, and i'll be honest, i'm not enjoying this so far like I did the first book. However, this could be as much to do with the fact that i'm listening to it rather than reading it, and that 'audio-books' may not be for me as I find I get constantly distracted and drop out of the story.

Dean wrote: "I think i'm about 20% of the way through, and i'll be honest, i'm not enjoying this so far like I did the first book. However, this could be as much to do with the fact that i'm listening to it rat..."
Yes, I find that too - I started to listen to the books while in the car, but when I'm at home, I'm too easily distracted, and at night, I admit, some voices just put me straight to sleep, lol. The narrator has to be very good to keep me on track! :-)

When I went to checkout Hyperion it was already checked out and now the same thing with The Fall of Hyperion. I was hoping to start this tomorrow. 😞

The physical and been returned to the library and I am still n hold for the ebook. I will see if I can pick it up. Hopefully it will be on the shelf when go there later. It just says “recently returned” so it might not be on the shelf yet.

I got a copy from the library today.

Hope you enjoy it Nancy. I'm about 50% through I believe, as I just started disc 2 of 2, but unfortunately I can't say its gripped me like the first one.

I didn’t get very far last night. Only page 36 or 37, I think.

It’s a brand new copy. I think I’m the first to check it out. But it’s a paperback and the print is small, LOL.

I haven’t gotten very far. Kids went back to school last week and the early mornings are killing me. By the time I can sit down to read at night, I am tired.

I have to say... I read the whole thing and loved it. Can't wait for discussion!

I felt really connected to the characters in Hyperion (even the poet, though the connection I wanted to make with him was via a fist), but in this don't feel the same way, and don't really feel like I care about their fate. As for the new characters, I am finding them all a bit bland and those sections of the book are the worst for me.

I have about 40% left so will plough on to see what happens.

This book is killing my will to read at bedtime. I think it's mainly because it's being drawn out so long and there is no feeling of personal connection to the characters like Dean mentioned.

I am not so sure I enjoy reading about the war part and M. Severn and his dreams. I want to know what happens at the time tombs. I hope the two come together in some spectacular manner to make it worth slogging through the parts I am not as interested in,

Exactly, Nancy.

I am up to ch 28.

I thought Saul's story from Hyperion was one of the saddest tales ever. Have to admit I was quite choked up over it and it stayed with me for days. How they resolve that in Fall of Hyperion was interesting to me (view spoiler)[ but I do have to say it was very awkward as a dad. I kept thinking about how Saul listened to the other stories, and then he finds out that the Warrior's bangin' babe was his daughter... I was thinking, oh, that's not great. (hide spoiler)]

I do love the resolution of all the plot lines, and there were more than a few surprises. However, I think to call this a dualogy is a misnomer, as there are still several items left untouched. The next two books, Endymion and The Rise of Endymion wrap everything up. Not saying it wasn't worth it, just that I wasn't prepared for 4 books from the outset.

Wait. There's no resolution at the end of this book? Agh!

There is for about 90% of everything, but you will definitely have questions. I guarantee it. Do have to say I loved Endymion and Endymion Rising. In many respects more than the Fall of Hyperion.

Was anyone else heartbroken over Saul? "See ya later, alligator!" Sad face!

I can't see me reading the next 2 books after this. I'll see this through to the end, but whatever issues aren't resolved will stay unresolved for me (or I guess I will just read some reviews to find out!)

W. wrote: "I thought Saul's story from Hyperion was one of the saddest tales ever. Have to admit I was quite choked up over it and it stayed with me for days. How they resolve that in Fall of Hyperion was int..."

I haven’t finished so I haven’t read your spoiler but I do think it is heart breaking.

The time tombs are opening!

Nancy wrote: "The time tombs are opening!"

Okay. As long as that happens by the end, I'm going to keep on reading. I can deal with a few unresolved threads, but if the time tombs remained closed through the end of the book, I'd be a little ticked off.

Well, now we are back to Severn and Gladstone...

I am on page 249 out of 517.

Amy, you will definitely want to keep reading. :)

Nancy, it has been a few months but I am relatively sure that you already finished Saul's story. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't all the main characters tell their tale in Hyperion? It's in Fall of Hyperion where they all get woven together.

Hyperion spoiler (view spoiler)[ I was referring to the fact that his daughter ages backward. And every day she loses her memories that she had from her life. Remember how he used to say "See ya later alligator" and she used to respond with "after awhile crocodile"? And then one day he puts her in her bed as a little child and and he says it, but instead of responding, she just cocks her head and says, "What?"

I cried. I will admit it. It broke my heart as a father to think about all the joyous little memories we place in our children being stripped away one painful day at a time. (hide spoiler)]

W. wrote: "Amy, you will definitely want to keep reading. :)

Nancy, it has been a few months but I am relatively sure that you already finished Saul's story. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't all the main..."

I wasn’t sure if your spoiler delved into The Fall of Hyperion and what happens to Saul and Rachel as she approaches the minute she was born. (view spoiler)[I got to that part after I posted. Saul hands Rachel over to the Shrike and the time tombs were opening and then we are back with Gladstone and Severn. (hide spoiler)]

So now I am wondering about the AI and (view spoiler)[the AI they encounter inthe future created by humans. So I am wondering if this is Ouster technology that leads to humans existing in the singularity (since we learned the Ouster’s have used genetics to modify themsleves for space versus the hegemony that is still human). What does Gladstone know? She says she is trying to destroy humans to save them? Does the AI know her motivation and is manipulating her to destroy all humans, Ouster’s included? (hide spoiler)]

I also have theories about Rachel. (view spoiler)[ Since Hyperion, I thought Moneta and Rachel were the same person. In The Fall, Moneta said she is aging backwards as well. She even asked Kassad what name he knows her by so Moneta isn’t he real name. For what purpose Rachel had to age backward to an infant and be given to be Shrike, I haven’t figured out. (hide spoiler)]

Nancy, regarding your theory about Rachel; that hadn't occurred to me but now I think of it, it certainly seems to make sense.

I'm on Chapter 35, whatever page that is.

I left off n the middle of ch 37 last night. It was getting late and I couldn’t read to the end of the chapter

The second half has picked up and has my attention more so than the first half.

I finished! I feel like this was a complete story (a two book series) and you don’t need to read anything after this to have all your questions answered.

I liked the ending and it did make it worth slogging through first half with Gladstone and Severn and everything came together at the end.

With answers to things I forgot about such as what happened on the boat with the Templar (the blood in his room). That was a surprise.

I was expecting Brawne’s baby (view spoiler)[to be “the one” not the The One Who Teaches. So I guess I do have one question and who is it. A new character or one we already have been introduced to? (hide spoiler)].

If I read the other books, it won’t be until sometime next year. We shall see.

Nancy
(view spoiler)[ It is a new character, and the focus of the next pair of books. I will say that they do revisit some (but not all of) the original surviving characters.

They also get into all of the unanswered questions that left me feeling slighted. What happened to Earth? What is up with the AI? Who is the One? Hint, it isn't Neo from the Matrix. What happened to all the planets after the Fall? What is truly up with the Ousters? That was a big one for me as they don't delve into that very deeply at all in the Hyperion books.

Endymion and Endymion Rising wrap it all up with a bow. And I have to say, as much as I enjoyed the Hyperion books for their originality, poetry, and cleverness, Endymion has a very personal feel to it that stayed with me for some time. (hide spoiler)]

W, I had a feeling that was the case with the next two books. (view spoiler)[The focus being on all new characters. (hide spoiler)] That’s why I figured I can wait until next year to read the next two.

I thought they did kind of explain what happened to (view spoiler)[Earth. I am not sure I quite understand it but the AI moved it and lied to everyone about the planet was doomed and every one needed to leave. Why? I am still not sure why but if it was Ummon doing the explaining then I probably went “huh?” Because half of that conversation was bizarre.

Yes, we really don’t learn a lot about the Ouster’s motivation except they wanted to destroy the TechnoCore. They believe that humans can travel and populate the galaxy with out terraforming planets. They did say in Hyperion that the Ouster’s split off when humans first left earth. So I get the impression they didn’t agree with terraforming and the use of the TechnoCore. But how do they know so much about Hyperion and the time tombs? I am guessing the people of the future are descended from the Ouster’s and they either time travel or somehow sent message to the Ouster’s through time. (hide spoiler)] Sometime you have to deduce this stuff from what info they do present in the book.

Nancy (view spoiler)[ the story of Earth-that-was is far from over.... (hide spoiler)]

W. wrote: "Nancy [spoilers removed]"

Ooooooohhhhhh....we get more info on all that. Cool beans. Good because I don’t know how you can move (view spoiler)[ an entire planet (hide spoiler)]. So now I want to know what, when, why, how. 😁

I did add the next two books to my to read shelf. I also checked the library and they have both as ebooks. I cannot read a 709 page mass market paperback.

I finally finished this yesterday and feel I should celebrate that it is finally over. I found it it a bit of a slog, and that's putting it mildly.

I think my level of interest fell over the course of the book, and the other two books won't be on my To Read shelf. Personally, I wish I had left it after Hyperion and just accepted that I had a lot of unanswered questions. By the time this was over, I had the answers but didn't really care. To be fair, there is a chance the listening to this as an audio book in the car didn't work for me, and that had I read it, I may have got more out of it. I'm going to give audio-books a miss for Sci-fi and Fantasy in the future.

That’s too bad, Dean. I thought the beginnng was slow but the second half finally picked up. Audio books seem to be hit or miss from what other people’s reactions are to various books.

Dean, what about the book didn't connect for you?

I don't know where to start really. I was looking forward to picking up where we left off and continuing with the story of the pilgrims, but then only about a third of the book seemed to be about them - and much of that was wasted with not much going on.

Instead we spend most of the time with the CEO of the Hegemony and a reincarnated poet (at the risk of sounding shallow, too much poetry in a book bores me), who saw everything through his dreams (including things that you wouldn't get through a dream, like how people were feeling). I found the Cybrid Severn / Keats one of the most boring and uninspired characters I ever encountered in a book. That whole part of the story just left me cold.

I also found the plot incomprehensible at times (though listening on audio maybe didn't help here). I followed the gist of it, but all the details were lost to me and as it went on, I stopped caring.

Towards the end of listening to this. I started reading The Hunger Games, and it was such a stark contrast that it was totally refreshing. Very readable and fast paced, as opposed to bogging down in inane detail and getting nowhere fast.

The Fall of Hyperions high score indicates i'm in the minority here, but that's life I guess, each to their own!

Severn grew on me, as did the Keats poetry slant. I have to admit I enjoy and appreciate poetry more as the years go by. Sorry to read that you didn't enjoy it though!

Dean wrote: "I don't know where to start really. I was looking forward to picking up where we left off and continuing with the story of the pilgrims, but then only about a third of the book seemed to be about t..."

One part that was so impressive to me about the first book was how deliberate all the parts were. Every story was very succinct and self-contained, but they all contributed to the whole. The author is a writing teacher, and he has an essay about how important it is to write in such a way that every part is integral to the whole book. In a story, you make sure every sentence matters or you trim it. In a book, you make sure every paragraph matters or you trim it. But that's not how he wrote this book. I've skimmed through most of the parts that aren't with our heroes on Hyperion.

I'm nearly 60% through now, so I've only gotten to some of the big reveals I'm sure. At some point, I did start to really wonder how our new Keats incarnation was able to dream what was happening on Hyperion to our heroes. The answer couldn't be a mere psychic connection because we're not in a fantasy world. It became clear just a few chapters after I started to suspect the truth. But I would have loved for Simmons to have structured our new Keat's dreams like he did the storytelling aspects of the first book in the series. Unfortunately, far too much of the first half of the book was politics and our heroes just kind of standing around waiting for something to happen.

I would place the first Hyperion book among my all time favorites. And I've seen it compared on various lists with other books that are my favorites: Cloud Atlas, The Sparrow, etc. And I think that the 2nd book of the series COULD have been a continuation of that feeling for me, but it needs paring and restructuring to make it as great as the first book.

I love the big idea of the AI (view spoiler)[ god that has infiltrated time and can manipulate it because it knows all. I'm really interested to see where this plot idea goes. Is this god just manipulating time because it can? Is it just playing a big game of what-if? This AI god seems to be playing with real lives in the way that it is because real lives are inconsequential to it. (hide spoiler)]

Anyhow, I have 40ish% left to go. I've been lately punctuating my reads of this with reading a comfort-read author who keeps me turning pages, so I'm not sure how soon I'll get through to the end so that I can read all of your spoilers without spoiling things.

Amy wrote: " The author is a writing teacher, and he has an essay about how important it is to write in such a way that every part is integral to the whole book. In a story, you make sure every sentence matters or you trim it. ..."


That’s interesting. Simmons definitely has the “do as I say, not as I do thing going.” I felt the same way about The Terror.

Although, I didn’t care as much for the non-pilgrim aspects of the book. Eventually those pieces fit into the whole story. He probably could have trimmed those parts down a bit.

What struck me as the most interesting is how different stylistically the books are. Hyperion, Fall of Hyperion, and the Endymion books all have a unique structure that -for me- kept it fresh.

Endymion and Endymion Rising have a writing structure that contributed to the plot, which was really clever. I would say the same thing for these two.

I just read another book last week that basically stole the format of Hyperion. It had FIVE people who were brought together to investigate an alien space craft. Each person told a story from their past while traveling to this alien space craft. They had portals to other worlds and portal homes (just like the farcaster homes). The only thing different was inbetween the stories, it jumped to the future to probably what will come later in the series. The stories weren’t even as intersting as Hyperion.

Nancy wrote: "I just read another book last week that basically stole the format of Hyperion. It had FIVE people who were brought together to investigate an alien space craft. Each person told a story from their..."

I know a writer who would purposefully copy formats and story outlines of successful books because it was guaranteed income. And it worked. People would buy the book, like it, and give it good-ish reviews. Then somebody who was more well read would come along and point out that it was just like (insert book name here).

I think I am that person that pointed out it was like another book n my review. LOL

I didn’t name the book but I did say it was written similar to another book and it was difficult to get the other book out of my mind while reading. Which it did. That ruined the book for me especially when Hyperions character were each unique and had intersting stories. These stories were all similar and I couldn’t tell the characters apart from one another.