The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

A thread to talk about miscellaneous subjects (including book-related ones) that don't fit in other forum topics.

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I've provisionally named this, after a few minutes research into pubs and similar meeting places in literature popular with forum members (and at a little risk, not having read Roberto Bolaño's work yet myself, just rather a lot of reviews and articles). Café Quito is the hangout of the writers and critics in Bolaño'sThe Savage Detectives.
The names of Joycean pubs seemed less inviting, Les Deux Magots sounds a bit, well, ugly, and I thought we could do with something non-English.. besides which cafés suit more people at more times of day than pubs... Suggest other names if you like.

Acknowledgements to the Reading the 20th Century group for inspiring the title format via their own thread named after a pub in a book.

I like it!

I’ll start by asking if anyone wants to expand on the rereading discussion?
We know that we always get something new upon reading a book a 2nd, 3rd or more times, so are their favorite books that anyone rereads every few years or so?
For me it’s All the Names, simply because I adore this story and the character of Jose.
I read Frankenstein every few years in October.
One Hundred Years of Solitude, Midnight's Children, and The Good Earth call to me often.
Of course Jane Eyre deserves to be read more than once. And I know before too long I will be reading The Gallows Pole again.
There are others too, but there are my favorite books to revisit.

I know we all have more books than time, but a few evenings with a beloved book is never time wasted.

Thanks for opening the door!

Glad it gets the official seal of approval!

Who were all the authors listed in the logo of the old forum BTW? Bolaño was one of them, I'm 90% sure. Krasznahorkai?...?

I hardly ever re-read whole books, but I do like looking back at favourite paragraphs or chapters. I wanted to have a custom of re-reading The Dark Is Rising every Midwinter, and I did at least once over the last 10 years. but it turned into looking at bits of it most years.

WndyJW wrote: "I like it!

I’ll start by asking if anyone wants to expand on the rereading discussion?"

By coincidence, last month I re-read The Good Earth (for the second time). I don't re-read books very often, but Maugham's The Razor's Edge, Faulkner's Absalom, Absalom!, Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle, Bronte's Wuthering Heights, and Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment are all books I have read at least twice and expect to read again.

Last year I read Samanta Schweblin's Fever Dream and Ottessa Moshfegh's McGlue. Both were great, but not always easy to figure out what is going on. Both are novellas, so with each one I re-read it a month after the first reading.

Many years ago I read Leonard Cohen's Beautiful Losers. It is wonderfully written, but was a bit baffling. As I finished the last page, I decided to turn to the beginning and re-read a few pages to see if I would get something more from it. I ended up doing a complete re-read. That's the only time I ever did a re-read where I started over the same day I finished the first read.

David, I often go back and read the first several pages of a book as ever near the end to remind myself where we started in the story. I have never reread a book that quickly though!

I rarely re-read, but the one book I go back to every decade or so is Durrell's 'The Alexandria Quartet', which I am past due to tackle once again (for, I believe, the 4th time). I have a shelf of 'books to re-read' with 7 volumes on it currently, but I never seem to get around to them, with so many new volumes arriving in my TBR list. I wanted to reread both Powell's 'A Dance to the Music of Time' and Seth's 'A Suitable Boy' this year, as two favorite LONG works that I think warrant another glance. I may get around to the Powell, but I want to read the Seth just prior to the sequel... and that, alas, gets getting delayed ... and delayed... and... :-(

Anto, the authors back then were Walser, Bolaño, Chejfec, Lind, Fuentes, Marías, Jouet, Zweig, Sebald, Krzhizhanovsky, Aira, Nescio, Krúdy, and Krasznahorkai. It would be different in some respects today!

Two books I reread on a near yearly basis are The God of Small Things and Watchmen but I do want to reread some more books, especially Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow and the more experimental books on my shelves.

Thanks for creating this Anto - it works very well in the 20th Century group so I hope it thrives.

I don’t have specific books I re-read again and again, but I have discovered the joy of re-reading.

Robert, I re-read Gravity’s Rainbow recently and it was more amazing than first time. I took copious notes which probably helped. I re-read DeLillo’s Underworld and several other DeLillo books. His output in the 1980s from The Names to Underworld is incredible (not quite so enthused by stuff before and after although there are several others I plan to re-read at some point).

The big re-read project I have planned is Richard Powers. All of them. Not consecutively, so it will take some time, but I hope to start soon.

Neil wrote: "I don’t have specific books I re-read again and again, but I have discovered the joy of re-reading.

Robert, I re-read Gravity’s Rainbow recently and it was more amazing than first time. I took cop..."

You've whetted my appetite - most probably I'll pick it up during the christmas break

It is worth taking notes. Even Pynchon says he doesn’t understand it (or something like that)!

Neil wrote: "It is worth taking notes. Even Pynchon says he doesn’t understand it (or something like that)!"

I'm guessing the implication is (on the more serious level) that he's forgotten things, or was he using researchers that early in his career?

There would be a lot to remember!

This is from The Guardian: ’Pynchon reportedly admitted to a friend that "I was so f***ed up while I was writing it... that now I go back over some of those sequences and I can't figure out what I could have meant.”’

Neil wrote: "This is from The Guardian: ’Pynchon reportedly admitted to a friend that "I was so f***ed up while I was writing it... that now I go back over some of those sequences and I can't figure out what I ..."
Thanks Neil - that doesn't surprise me either!

Of course, the drugs!

Neil wrote: "It is worth taking notes. Even Pynchon says he doesn’t understand it (or something like that)!"

Oh yes. In fact ever since The Overstory, I've been taking notes while reading and it has helped so much.

I feel I should take more notes while reading, but often just finding a pen and something to write on (or the phone if it is charging) disrupts the flow too much. I can't bring myself to write on the book itself. This is why there are rarely enough quotes in my reviews!

I started Gravity's Rainbow for the first time a month ago. I didn't enjoy it at all and it reminded me a lot of Infinite Jest in tone and style, a book I started twice and DNF both times (although I stuck it out for 200 pages the second time, longer than an entire novel for many writers!) I didn't give up entirely on Pynchon because I switched to read The Crying of Lot 49. I read it through to the end but it was no better than "meh" for me. I doubt I will return to Pynchon again. It is even less encouraging to try Gravity's Rainbow knowing that not only are readers puzzled by it but that the author can't make sense of it. It sounds a bit like an emperor's new clothes situation.

If you enjoy classic or historical fiction, you would have been better trying Mason & Dixon. It certainly makes sense, and if a lot of the language is familiar from older books it will be even more satisfying.

The problem I have with M&D is that I can't believe any other Pynchon will be as good in the same way. (Although Against the Day might get somewhere near.)

M&D and ATD are my two favourite Pynchon novels!

I liked it much more than Infinite Jest, but apart from the complexity and the breadth of references, they really don't have much in common. There is much more narrative continuity in Gravity's Rainbow but some parts are very surreal.

Pynchon and re-reading novels - two things I keep thinking I ought to try one day, but there are always other things that come ahead in the reading pile.

I think for me Pynchon may forever remain one of those authors that I am glad other authors have read so I don't have to (e.g. Krasznahorkai cites him as an influence).

I think you would hate Pynchon. And your reviews are so thorough that you can re-read them instead of the books!

David - i think that V is the best place to start. Although Pynchon has written better, V is a primer of sorts. Against the day is fantastic!!! I haven't read Mason.. or Vineland. As for infinite jest - i got to page 350 but i will try it again. Broom of the system is one of my fave books

V is really quite different from his later stuff though. I didn't much like the bit of it I read, and I've seen a few posts from other people on GR who love later Pynchon like M&D but couldn't click with V. If you read a writer's works in chronological order you risk starting with weaker stuff and if you are put off by that, not reading better, later works. (Not true of all authors obvs)

Antonomasia wrote: "V is really quite different from his later stuff though. I didn't much like the bit of it I read, and I've seen a few posts from other people on GR who love later Pynchon like M&D but couldn't clic..."

Hmm I disagree. I say that V is accessible (in the sense that it's readability is on the level of a Goldsmiths nominee) and it quite representative of themes found in later Pynchon ( notice how the letter V is so important in those later book)

Maybe my enjoyment is that I know exactly what he's talking about, mainly Valletta and more specifically, The Gut aka Strait Street aka Sailor hangout for a long time.

Yeah, that has to help; knowing places in books pretty much always does.

Something like Mason & Dixon has both gravitas and heart in the way that earlier stuff doesn't so much: that's about larking around. One GR friend has a shelf named something like 'big books for grad student boys' which I think suits that sort of thing very well. (I guess what I'm implying here is that M&D might be a better fit for some people who'd first consider reading Pynchon in middle age, and who'd have less patience with the escapades and devices in the earlier books.)

Antonomasia wrote: "Yeah, that has to help; knowing places in books pretty much always does.

Something like Mason & Dixon has both gravitas and heart in the way that earlier stuff doesn't so much: that's about larki..."

Interesting!

Doug wrote: "Seth's 'A Suitable Boy' this year, as two favorite LONG works that I think warrant another glance. I may get around to the Powell, but I want to read the Seth just prior to the sequel... and that, alas, gets getting delayed ... and delayed... and... :-( ."

I had no idea about the Seth - what a great surprise - for me anyway! It's not the kind of book you think of as first in a series. I wonder if "A Suitable Girl" is a working or finalized title. Goodreads calls this the "Suitable Series", which I hope wasn't Seth's idea ;)

I could, but it would be rather intermittent. Much as I love Mr Powers’ books, I would not want to read all of them back to back and there is no saying what kind of gap there would be between them. I think it is likely I will read them in chronological order, which might not be the best way for a Powers newbie to do it. If there was genuine interest in a rather random group, I could re-order the books and see who hangs on for the longest with me!

Nadine wrote: "I had no idea about the Seth - what a great surprise - for me anyway! It's not the kind of book you think of as first in a series. I wonder if "A Suitable Girl" is a working or finalized title. Goodreads calls this the "Suitable Series", which I hope wasn't Seth's idea ;)"

'A Suitable Girl' is the final title and it's been promised since 2013, but Seth got an extreme case of writer's block following the demise of his long term romantic partnership. Since 'Boy' ended in 1952, and 'Girl' is set in the present, he calls it a 'jump sequel', since he jumps a generation and pick up with the grandchildren of the protagonists from the earlier book. The latest revised publication date has it coming out on 25 Aug 2020. It's purportedly approximately 800 pages, so not quite as daunting as the earlier work.

Hugh wrote: "I feel I should take more notes while reading, but often just finding a pen and something to write on (or the phone if it is charging) disrupts the flow too much. I can't bring myself to write on t..."

My father’s family all say our memory of him is with a book in his lap, a pen in one hand and notecard in the other. (I have a photo of him in college with a book, pen and notecard and another of him, 60 yrs later, in the last months of his life with a book, pen and notecard.) I inherited his treasured books with the notecards recording his reflections and favorite lines.

Notecards are nice because you don’t mark your books and if you reread you can recall your reactions to your books each time you read it.

I am not a great user of Kindle, but it does of course make highlighting passages, adding annotations and copying out quotes the work of a few seconds.

When reading a paper book, my normal technique these days is to take a photo of pages that I want to return to or of passages I intend to use in my review, and have some post it /sticky notes as a back up.

Taking photos of a book can get you some odd looks on a train, and even more do when you are reading while walking.

And then for my notebook to revised my thoughts I use this Website I have discovered called Goodreads - having for years before that written all my notes to Word.

Gumble's Yard wrote: "Taking photos of a book can get you some odd looks on a train"

Agreed, although I find it is the taking photos on a train (particularly the tube given how crowded it is) that causes the odd looks, rather than the subject being a book.

I walk and read, something that no one notices in my office building anymore, but I found myself walking really fast and reading out loud yesterday while reading Old Rendering Plant. I tried to be aware of other people so as not to get caught breathlessly reading under my breath while speed walking into walls. Anyone who has read this book will understand, it’s an exceptional book.

Waterstones are buying up Foyles :(
https://www.theguardian.com/business/...

I do not usually walk and read because most of my walking is not on smooth pavements and I would end up tripping over tree roots, entangling myself in brambles and losing the dog. The only time I have done so recently is on the walk back from the library after collecting a book, so is due more to impatience than habit. I do always have a book or kindle with me to read when I stop for a break on the longer countryside walks or return home by public transport.

This walking along outdoors while reading books - not phones - is for me one of those mysterious things only heard about in the media and online, and never observed 'in the wild'. I imagine it happening in leafy areas of outer London (plus Hampstead) that are also blessed with well-kept pavements. I haven't had suitable co-ordination for it since my mid teens, in any case.
Do people really walk for streets and streets while reading, rather than just finishing a page or two after getting off a bus?

This is really a continuation of a discussion we had in the Milkman thread, but yes, I do sometimes read while walking. It is more often a newspaper or the phone than a book, but I will often finish a page or chapter after getting off a bus or train. I agree with Val that it is easier to do on quiet city streets than on country paths, but there is definitely an art to knowing how often to look up to avoid collisions.

I also finish pages, sections or chapters when I get off the train. On the way to work I have a long escalator ride before I get to the street, but even that is not always enough. I am not the only one who does this. But nowadays it is acceptable to be reading a handheld device in public. Milkman was describing a time in the 1970s when reading a book while walking would have seemed very contrived, especially in the Ardoyne where social compliance was expected on many levels. I remember Belfast as somewhere that, if you tried to have a serious discussion you'd be told that was an issue for the pub, and if you tried it in the pub you'd be told to lighten up - we're here to have fun.

Reading in a nice restaurant is another favourite of mine, although only when dining alone. I have found it’s considered bad form to do it in company

So is staring at one's phone Gumble, but plenty of people do it.

During my break I pace around the library reading. Other than that I read:

On the bus. if I'm at the end of a chapter, I will read and walk, however once on vacation in London I fell off the stairs of a double decker, so I don't recommend reading and going down bus stairs.

On my own in a restaurant. One of my fave memories is finishing Michael Cunningham's The Hours on Christmas eve, while in an Indian restaurant. Sometimes my girlfriend and I have reading dates, where we go to a restaurant and read our respective novels until our meal arrives, chat and eat and then resume reading.

Bank queues.

Antonomasia wrote: "Waterstones are buying up Foyles :(
https://www.theguardian.com/business/..."

Oh no! That makes me sad (but better than closing). It would be nice if they keep the name?

Ang wrote: "Oh no! That makes me sad (but better than closing). It would be nice if they keep the name? ."

Hatchards still has its own name, so they probably will. But I don't know how Waterstones might change the buying - if Foyles will just end up like another big Waterstones. (Not that those aren't nice to browse too.) I only went into Hatchards once or twice, and it must have been about 10 years ago, so I can't comment on what it's like there.

Yes, I have read in long bank queues. They are quiet enough
(unlike most shops), movement is very slow and there are no tripping hazards.

The quote from Mr Foyle definitely suggests that the name will be maintained in the short term.

I read while I walk every day. I used to walk around for miles in Newark and New York City with my book out, and I still do it in the less stressed streets of Utah. I did have strange people take a picture a time or two, but I have never had an injury!