Retro Reads discussion

Hi Everyone, our group read of this title starts on the 15th.

This will be my first read of this title & I became interested in reading it because of the review of a GR friend of mine.

The read will be divided into 3 parts - first half of the book, second half of the book & a spoiler thread. If you want to post a spoiler in one of the other two threads please use spoiler tags - we don't want to spoil a first read for anyone!

Several of our Retro authors seem very taken by the idea of a Doppelgänger. A couple of years back I read a delightful tale of an American businessman down on his luck, who wakes up from drunken encounter in a hotel in Britain and discovers that he has been mistaken for an Earl. Henry de Vere Stacpoole plays the theme mostly for laughs and it's terrific--don't miss The Man Who Lost Himself free on Kindle and Project Gutenberg. Helen MacInnes spins another tale of switched identities with an espionage twist in Assignment in Brittany--also very good.

I'm interested in seeing how Daphne du Maurier weaves her story. So far (I confess I jumped the gun) I'm up to Chapter 3 and, not surprisingly, du Maurier's take is much darker, with a sinister psychological undercurrent.

I started last night but didn't get very far.

I'll look for the Henry de Vere one.

And of course there's Brat Farrar, with (view spoiler)[multiple lookalikes (hide spoiler)]!

Abigail wrote: "And of course there's Brat Farrar, with [spoilers removed]!"

& the homage to Brat Farrar The Ivy Tree.

Chapter 1 - Loved this, so evocative.
Chapter 2 - DuMaurier establishes a feeling of vague uneasiness so well. John (view spoiler)[ very passive heading towards his doom! (hide spoiler)]

Prisoner of Zenda and Man in the Iron Mask--two books that swashbuckled with the switched identity trope.
I've gotten into chapter 2 and not sure how much further I'll go on. It is a bit too dark for my mood at this time. The constant dreary weather we've been having certainly isn't helping matters, either...

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Prisoner of Zenda and Man in the Iron Mask--two books that swashbuckled with the switched identity trope.
I've gotten into chapter 2 and not sure how much further I'll go on. It is a bit too dark f..."

Oh I have to read The Prisoner of Zenda someday!

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Prisoner of Zenda and Man in the Iron Mask--two books that swashbuckled with the switched identity trope.
I've gotten into chapter 2 and not sure how much further I'll go on. It is a bit too dark f..."

Oh, no! I rushed through a mediocre library book so I could get into Scapegoat, but if this is the case I may just do the first chapter for now...I really don’t need a downer right now!

I'm up to Chapter 13 and am enjoying the story so far. I'm new to the group and not sure how to go about discussing the chapters without giving away too much, so I'll stick to some general statements about the writing until I've learned more.

I was immediately impressed with DuMaurier's scene descriptions. Right at the beginning, the main character stops in a brasserie and I loved how she captured the atmosphere, simply with descriptions of aromas:
...the good smell of food, soupy and pungent--of cheese upon sauce-tipped knives, spilt wine, the bitter dregs of coffee--and rank, too, with the wet cloth of coats heavily rained upon, now drying, the whole scene framed in a blue smoke cloud of Gauloise cigarettes.

The detail of it is wonderful. People just drinking wine in a restaurant probably wouldn't carry any particular smell, but "spilt wine" certainly does, and when I read that I could almost smell it myself!

Then, at the end of the first chapter, the station buffet is described almost entirely by its sounds.
Whistles blew, the deafening screech of an approaching express merged into the choking gasp of a local train, dogs on leashes yapped, a child wailed.

It certainly conveys a less inviting atmosphere than the brasserie, which seems fitting, given that the main character is just a few seconds away from receiving the shock of his life!

Kathryn wrote: "I'm up to Chapter 13 and am enjoying the story so far. I'm new to the group and not sure how to go about discussing the chapters without giving away too much, so I'll stick to some general statemen..."

Hi there Kathryn

There is a spoiler thread you can use if you are ever not sure. If you want to stay in this thread click on (some html is ok) above the comment box & that will tell you how to do spoiler tags.

Kathryn wrote: "...the good smell of food, soupy and pungent--of cheese upon sauce-tipped knives, spilt wine, the bitter dregs of coffee--and rank, too, with the wet cloth of coats heavily rained upon, now drying, the whole scene framed in a blue smoke cloud of Gauloise cigarettes...." I loved that!

Barb and Susan, it's not really a downer. It just has dark moments and complex and imperfect human characters.

Hi Kathryn! Welcome, you picked a doozy of a book to join the group!

I’m just starting chapter 9 - it’s really engrossing! The descriptions of the opening chapter, I agree, were impressive, but sitting on John’s shoulder, like a fly on the wall, is fascinating! (view spoiler)[The way he’s desperately trying to figure out who is who, I mean “which of these two women is my wife”, wow! I couldn’t help thinking of It's A Wonderful Life, when George sees what life would’ve been like without him. (hide spoiler)]Imagine being in such a situation. Mind blown!

Kathryn quoted: "...the good smell of food, soupy and pungent--of cheese upon sauce-tipped knives, spilt wine, the bitter dregs of coffee--and rank, too, with the wet cloth of coats heavily rained upon, now drying, the whole scene framed in a blue smoke cloud of Gauloise cigarettes."

All it needs is Maigret

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JRMg...

I'm up to Chapter 12 now. I'm finding it an engrossing read & DuMaurier is pulling it off well. But (view spoiler)[ You would think John or Jean would have a mole, or a birthmark or a scar. (hide spoiler)]

Rosina wrote: "Kathryn quoted: "...the good smell of food, soupy and pungent--of cheese upon sauce-tipped knives, spilt wine, the bitter dregs of coffee--and rank, too, with the wet cloth of coats heavily rained ..."

Yes! I've just discovered Maigret and am loving those books too!

Rosina wrote: "Kathryn quoted: "...the good smell of food, soupy and pungent--of cheese upon sauce-tipped knives, spilt wine, the bitter dregs of coffee--and rank, too, with the wet cloth of coats heavily rained ..."

Perfect!

Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "I'm up to Chapter 12 now. I'm finding it an engrossing read & DuMaurier is pulling it off well. But [spoilers removed]"

Oh, classic clue, good point! I guess the closest clue that John is an imposter is(view spoiler)[That the family dogs growl at him - I thought he was a goner! (hide spoiler)]

Kathryn wrote: "Rosina wrote: "Kathryn quoted: "...the good smell of food, soupy and pungent--of cheese upon sauce-tipped knives, spilt wine, the bitter dregs of coffee--and rank, too, with the wet cloth of coats ..."

I’ve only seen the TV version, and read one book, years ago - now I have to hunt Maigret down and read more! Has anyone read the Bruno, Chief of Police books? I’ve read a few, and really enjoyed them (setting is present-day rural France).Bruno, Chief of Police

Susan in NC wrote: "Has anyone read the Bruno, Chief of Police books?"

My husband (Mr. Mystery fan) Loves those! He's read them all and anxiously awaits each new one. I think he reads them primarily for the food and wine, with the actual crime coming in a distant third!

Back to our 'Scapegoat' read. I am heartened to read that the story becomes gripping as it progresses. I'm in the middle of another book, which I really want to finish, after which I shall dig into this one.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Has anyone read the Bruno, Chief of Police books?"

My husband (Mr. Mystery fan) Loves those! He's read them all and anxiously awaits each new one. I think he reads them primari..."

I’m glad he likes Bruno! I admit, the mysteries are well done, but the food and wine and scenery are a treat, as well!

Yes, I’m really enjoying this book, it’s very gripping and I can’t wait to see what happens!

The suspense really is fantastic and du Maurier builds it so cleverly! It's interesting that the ones who know something is different are Ch. 5 and 6 (view spoiler)[the dogs and Marie-Noel. She not only says that John has 'a different smell' but is observant enough to see that his nails 'are a different shape'. Strange, clever child. (hide spoiler)].

She really is, isn’t she? Definitely an “old soul”.

Marie-Noel really is an "old soul". She totally has the right instincts on the present-giving. Ch 7& 8(view spoiler)[the ghastly scene when the various family members open their 'presents' seems to be a catalyst, or a few pebbles that start an avalanche. Will it be for good or for ill? (hide spoiler)]

Hana wrote: "Marie-Noel really is an "old soul". She totally has the right instincts on the present-giving. Ch 7& 8[spoilers removed]"

I was really slow on what went wrong there! Brilliant writing!

Thinking of scent in historical novels....I wonder when film and/or digital virtual reality will catch up on this dimension. I'm not sure I'll be rushing out to experience those smells :D

In Connie Willis's superb time travel novel Doomsday Book, an historian is advised to have her scent glands cauterized before she ventures back into the Middle Ages!

Hana wrote: "Thinking of scent in historical novels....I wonder when film and/or digital virtual reality will catch up on this dimension. I'm not sure I'll be rushing out to experience those smells :D

In [aut..."

I’d think she’d want to hold her nose - bathing not being popular among the masses back in the day...

Hana wrote: "Marie-Noel really is an "old soul". She totally has the right instincts on the present-giving. Ch 7& 8[spoilers removed]"

Yes, that was a very powerful and awkward situation!

Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "Hana wrote: "Marie-Noel really is an "old soul". She totally has the right instincts on the present-giving. Ch 7& 8[spoilers removed]"

I was really slow on what went wrong there! Brilliant writing!"

I literally cringed when Renee opened her package...

So did I! But I was even more horrified when Paul's "present" (view spoiler)[ was opened and the innocent Marie-Noel read the label out loud. I lost all sympathy for the real Jean at that moment. A disgusting thing to do to anyone. (hide spoiler)]

Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "I'm up to Chapter 12 now. I'm finding it an engrossing read & DuMaurier is pulling it off well. But [spoilers removed]" I thought that too but the trickiest, most awkward early moment came in Ch. 5 (view spoiler)[ when John figures out which is his own room and which woman is actually his wife and then has to figure out whether to sleep with her! (hide spoiler)]

Hana wrote: "So did I! But I was even more horrified when Paul's "present" [spoilers removed]"

Yes, I thought, “what a swine!” And honestly, even if he gave that to Paul in private, wouldn’t that be (view spoiler)[pretty much fessing up to having an affair with Renee? How else would Jean know about problems in their sex life? (hide spoiler)]

Hana wrote: "Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "I'm up to Chapter 12 now. I'm finding it an engrossing read & DuMaurier is pulling it off well. But [spoilers removed]" I thought that too but the trickiest, most awkward early mom..."

Very true - that was fascinating, really hit me, all the complications in the situation- and duMaurier’s use of every complication to ratchet up the tension was masterful!

I have just finished Chapter 13 and I’m really enjoying every page. This is the best kind of retro read. It has that flavor of the era in which it was written, but all the sophistication of a timelessly good story. It isn’t every writer who can pull off narration and description and dialogue equally well, but the author is masterful.

I’m fascinated by the main character and at times I can’t decide whether I even like him, although he is more sympathetic than the man he is pretending to be. And honestly, wouldn’t someone —his own mother, for instance —notice that he was physically different in some small way? So far only the dogs have figured it out!

And yes, knowing something of De Guy’s personality, why on earth wouldn’t he have checked those gifts himself before handing them out?

That's an excellent point, Elinor. I suspect he was overwhelmed by fear that he would mix people up and get names wrong. Marie-Noel laying out the presents in the right spot had to be a relief for him (view spoiler)[ (at least until the horrific moment when the presents start being opened). (hide spoiler)]

Elinor wrote: "I have just finished Chapter 13 and I’m really enjoying every page. This is the best kind of retro read. It has that flavor of the era in which it was written, but all the sophistication of a timel..."

Exactly- dialogue, plot, characters- she really was masterful! I so enjoyed this, and I wasn’t sure I would even like it, because I couldn’t see how the premise could be so fully fleshed out.

Ooooo! I read this last year and loved it!

Enchantress debbicat ☮ wrote: "Ooooo! I read this last year and loved it!"

Me, too; I started it really without expectations, but was pulled right in!

Susan in NC wrote: "Enchantress debbicat ☮ wrote: "Ooooo! I read this last year and loved it!"

Me, too; I started it really without expectations, but was pulled right in!"

yes, I posted over in the spoiler thread too. This was a very good book. Gave me a lot to think about. I did order a du Maurier biography afterwards

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

my review. Did this read in 2017 as a buddy read with another GR group. We all enjoyed it.

I am reading this for the second time and am a great Daphne du Maurier fan. Having read this first a number of years ago and having forgotten a lot of details, I am enjoying this as much this time as the first. This may replace Rebecca as my favorite du Maurier novel, but it is definitely one of my favorites.

I could definitely see myself rereading th8s someday - glad I bought a used copy!