History Buffs United discussion

Unthinkable, but true! 75 years have passed since the capitulation in Stalingrad. The casualties and atrocities will never be forgotten. However, it seems as if humanity has not learned its lesson, yet.

We are much closer to the next conflagration than we want to believe. The Middle East is near to explode in a huge conflict between Sunnites (supported by the USA) and Shiites (aided by Russia).

The events in Aleppo made clear that, despite all the years and the technological advances, there is no such thing as humane dying in war. It always ends in archaic fighting for property and ground area. Dying is just as horrible for those who are injured, abused or tortured in Aleppo, as it was 75 years ago in the ruins of Stalingrad.

War is not only destroying the body, but it also irreparably damages the human soul. In wartimes, it only takes a few weeks for an average man to develop sadistic pleasure in killing others. So why are we surprised when people, traumatized by war, commit atrocious crimes, even in times of peace.

And what are we doing? The majority of human mankind finds pleasure in spending billions of dollars for war games. Nonetheless, gaming consoles will not help us to solve real life problems. So, are we just blind or are we already practicing for the worst case? Christoph Fromm Stalingrad: The Loneliest Death

I just read your comment Christoph. You are right to say that what happened in Stalingrad should not be forgotten. I think it is remembered with horror and fear in the west much as Nanking and Cambodia is in the east. I also agree with you about the controlling divisions within Islam growing. War games are however not a problem nor are war films. After all before gaming consoles did not children play with wooden swords, plastic guns and bow's. The real problem, as always, is ignorance. Many have not learned the lessons of the past despite their importance.

In the Islamic world it is unlikely that will change soon despite the fact that the majority of the people are very thoughtful and considered in their thoughts and actions as most regimes in the middle east try to keep their citizens ignorant of the world outside the small domain they occupy. It is a shame.

First, homo sapiens and cro-magnon men and women before them have been killing each other for ions. We, by our very nature are competitive whether we are individuals, companies, tribes or nations. It is who we are because it is all about survival. War is just another manifestation of this competitive drive.

Having said that, the problems in Iraq, Syria and Iran are tribal, religious and cultural. For centuries, life in the Middle East was run by tribal leaders and families had loyalties to their tribe. Along came the West in the early 1920s with some ill conceived notions about where national borders should be drawn and voila, you have conflict.

Second, democratic traditions are not borne and created overnight. It often takes generations before they take root. What holds most of the countries in the Third World back is corruption. Their leaders rob from their own people to enrich themselves while their countries wallow in poverty.

Third, the war in Syria is a tribal feud between the Aalawites who are in power and those who want to change the way the government runs and make it more democratic. The Russians are involved because they want to make trouble for the west. Their involvement costs little.

The Iranians are involved because it gives them a base from which to attack Israel. For the record, Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world and what drives them is not political goals, but religious ones and that makes them very, very dangerous.

I agree with Marc except perhaps for the causes behind wars. It is worth reading "Sapiens" by Yuval Noah Harari with regard to that.

Cro Magnon man was little more than a territorial ape and so can be forgiven his behaviour but you would think that we would know better by now. Other than those little things (and they could easily be argued over) Marc shows wisdom.