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Saturn Run
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Saturn Run by John Sandford & Ctein
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I was really surprised to see him writing in this genre. I've known him for years as the author of the Prey series, which I never could seem to get around to reading. I found this as an audiobook at the library, so thought I'd give it a shot & was very pleasantly surprised. I gave it a 4 star, spoiler-free review here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Jim wrote: "I was really surprised to see him writing in this genre. I've known him for years as the author of the Prey series, which I never could seem to get around to reading. I found this as an audiobook a..."
I haven't read anything by either of the co-authors. I assume Sandford provides the character dynamics, while Ctein (a professional photographer with a physics degree and fannish credentials) provides the hard-SF concepts.
I haven't read anything by either of the co-authors. I assume Sandford provides the character dynamics, while Ctein (a professional photographer with a physics degree and fannish credentials) provides the hard-SF concepts.
The opening seems very cinematic and familiar.
(First 10% or so:)
Chapter 1: up in space, a maintenance worker in an "egg," a small, one-man space maintenance vehicle, is repairing a space telescope. (The egg's homebase is a permanent space station, and apparently it uses a mass driver to send the egg into rendezvous orbits with other space-based objects, such as the aforementioned telescope.)
Chapter 2: Down on earth, a geek running diagnostics on the newly-repaired telescope discovers an anomaly! (Cue dramatic music.) Extra-solar object is decelerating. Current course and deceleration puts it in a orbit about Saturn. I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.
Chapter 3: The powerful, elite leaders (starting with the US president) and a few scientists get together to discuss what must be done. Apparently that includes secrecy (mustn't let the Chinese know; as we recently read Cixin Liu's Ball Lightning, we know Chinese SF writers think the same way about the US. :) We must get there first! A crash program is approved.
The Chinese have a head start because they've been prepping an expedition to Mars to establish a permanent outpost.
(Aside: I find it slightly depressing that the authors assume by2066 it will still be true that no human has walked on Mars.)
Chapter 4-8: Assemble the Team!
Capt Naomi Fang-Castro, of US Space Station 3, will command (because the Plan is to glue a big engine onto the space station and send the whole thing to Saturn.)
Crow, the scary security guy.
Sandy, the geek who first detected the object, partly because he's a multi-discipline renaissance man, partly because he's a good cinematograph (for a porn site!) and partly because he's ex-special forces.
Dr. Rebecca Johansson, because she is an expert on putting together really big engines.
Clover, an eccentric anthropologist who has apparently spent a lot of time thinking about what alien civilizations would look like.
Cassandra Fiorella, documentary presenter, whose broadcast media role would provide the cover story of going to Mars.
Aside: Cute choice of first name. Also, in 2066 there is apparently still live broadcast TV.
This is a really familiar structure for the start of this kind of story. Novels like 2001: A Space Odyssey, Rendezvous with Rama, and Contact (and the movies based on them), as well as movies such as Armageddon and Deep Impact, all follow this basic outline.
The authors have addressed this particular telling with a light touch of humor.
(First 10% or so:)
Chapter 1: up in space, a maintenance worker in an "egg," a small, one-man space maintenance vehicle, is repairing a space telescope. (The egg's homebase is a permanent space station, and apparently it uses a mass driver to send the egg into rendezvous orbits with other space-based objects, such as the aforementioned telescope.)
Chapter 2: Down on earth, a geek running diagnostics on the newly-repaired telescope discovers an anomaly! (Cue dramatic music.) Extra-solar object is decelerating. Current course and deceleration puts it in a orbit about Saturn. I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.
Chapter 3: The powerful, elite leaders (starting with the US president) and a few scientists get together to discuss what must be done. Apparently that includes secrecy (mustn't let the Chinese know; as we recently read Cixin Liu's Ball Lightning, we know Chinese SF writers think the same way about the US. :) We must get there first! A crash program is approved.
The Chinese have a head start because they've been prepping an expedition to Mars to establish a permanent outpost.
(Aside: I find it slightly depressing that the authors assume by2066 it will still be true that no human has walked on Mars.)
Chapter 4-8: Assemble the Team!
Capt Naomi Fang-Castro, of US Space Station 3, will command (because the Plan is to glue a big engine onto the space station and send the whole thing to Saturn.)
Crow, the scary security guy.
Sandy, the geek who first detected the object, partly because he's a multi-discipline renaissance man, partly because he's a good cinematograph (for a porn site!) and partly because he's ex-special forces.
Dr. Rebecca Johansson, because she is an expert on putting together really big engines.
Clover, an eccentric anthropologist who has apparently spent a lot of time thinking about what alien civilizations would look like.
Cassandra Fiorella, documentary presenter, whose broadcast media role would provide the cover story of going to Mars.
Aside: Cute choice of first name. Also, in 2066 there is apparently still live broadcast TV.
This is a really familiar structure for the start of this kind of story. Novels like 2001: A Space Odyssey, Rendezvous with Rama, and Contact (and the movies based on them), as well as movies such as Armageddon and Deep Impact, all follow this basic outline.
The authors have addressed this particular telling with a light touch of humor.
Just started this & am finding the opening chapters pretty readable, if a little heavy on the machismo.It seems plausible if not esp. likely that there would be three U.S. Space stations in 2066 (although it's early pages -- maybe the other 2 were prior rather than concurrently operating); I've just read that our focal Station 3 is to be renamed the Richard Nixon, which is amusing
Hillary wrote: "I've just read that our focal Station 3 is to be renamed the Richard Nixon, which is amusing ..."
Because only Nixon could go to China?
Because only Nixon could go to China?
G33z3r wrote: "while Ctein (a professional photographer with a physics degree and fannish credentials)"Ah, that explains all the time spent describing Sandy recording Cassandra and going into all the details of lighting and colours.
I'm still pretty early on, about 150 pages. I'm enjoying the humour the author weaves into it (like the 1.2 million research initiative to see if they crew needs prostitutes on such a long trip, and if so, what *ahem* attributes should said prostitutes have), turning what is otherwise (as G33z3r pointed out) similar to what we've read/watched before into something that is still entertaining.
I thought I wasn't really going to get into it but by page 50 I found I could keep reading beyond what I usually read in one sitting. It kept my interest and is an easy read.
I'm just not convinced that in a year, even in 2066, could one convert a space station into a spaceship that could travel fast enough to get the Saturn. After all, though we know the theory of it, we've yet to even bother making a rotating station that has artificial gravity, let alone create a massive liquid metal streaming radiator in a matter of months. But like in Robinson's Red Mars, I think the idea is not to focus too much on the feasibility of the tech (or at least the timeline of producing said tech) and enjoy the rest of the story.
I like the cat, reminds me of the one in The Wanderer. Apparently cats do well in low-g. Pretty sure my cat would be hanging off the ceiling in terror though...
I liked the humor, too. One that made me chuckle was Sandy reading a book by the Go master Nicholai Hel, the main character in Shibumi. There were quite a few other easter eggs like that. Subtle humor that can still occasionally make me laugh out loud. Sandford put a lot of that in his Prey series & even more in the spin-off Virgil Flowers series. I finally read both this year along with most of his standalones. This book turned me into a fan.
Andrea wrote: "Ah, that explains all the time spent describing Sandy recording Cassandra and going into all the details of lighting and colors...."
Yeah, I assume that's Ctein's contribution.
Andrea wrote: "I'm just not convinced that in a year, even in 2066, could one convert a space station into a spaceship that could travel fast enough to get the Saturn. After all, though we know the theory of it, we've yet to even bother making a rotating station that has artificial gravity, let alone create a massive liquid metal streaming radiator in a matter of months. But like in Robinson's Red Mars, I think the idea is not to focus too much on the feasibility of the tech..."
I enjoy the tech (without wondering how completely practical it is.) It's an old-school geek thing. :)
I suppose the advantage of using an existing space station is that it's already built and has the necessary components for sustaining human life in space: air pressure, circulation, refresh.
The VASIMR Is an actual theoretical concept for space propulsion (I can't really call it a "real thing", since a fully functional one doesn't exist, but there's actually a company working on it. As a practical matter, it requires more electricity than is currently practical But with a really powerful nuclear reactor, it's really inefficient with energy but really efficient with reaction mass. (VASIMR on Wikipedia if Becca's bowling balls versus bullets description isn't enough for you. :)
And I love the concept of that cooling system. It's... coo. :) Liquid metal extruded into space in ribbons to cool and harden through radiational cooling before being collected again for reuse.
I spent some time wondering why they bothered making the "solar parasol" deployable in route. Since the Nixon is under constant acceleration, the solar parasol is able to function under that acceleration, it would've been easier to just set it up before launch, instead of storing it furled and requiring the effort of deploying it in flight. (though jettisoning it to reduce mass after the solar flyby sounds like a great idea.)
Yeah, I assume that's Ctein's contribution.
Andrea wrote: "I'm just not convinced that in a year, even in 2066, could one convert a space station into a spaceship that could travel fast enough to get the Saturn. After all, though we know the theory of it, we've yet to even bother making a rotating station that has artificial gravity, let alone create a massive liquid metal streaming radiator in a matter of months. But like in Robinson's Red Mars, I think the idea is not to focus too much on the feasibility of the tech..."
I enjoy the tech (without wondering how completely practical it is.) It's an old-school geek thing. :)
I suppose the advantage of using an existing space station is that it's already built and has the necessary components for sustaining human life in space: air pressure, circulation, refresh.
The VASIMR Is an actual theoretical concept for space propulsion (I can't really call it a "real thing", since a fully functional one doesn't exist, but there's actually a company working on it. As a practical matter, it requires more electricity than is currently practical But with a really powerful nuclear reactor, it's really inefficient with energy but really efficient with reaction mass. (VASIMR on Wikipedia if Becca's bowling balls versus bullets description isn't enough for you. :)
And I love the concept of that cooling system. It's... coo. :) Liquid metal extruded into space in ribbons to cool and harden through radiational cooling before being collected again for reuse.
I spent some time wondering why they bothered making the "solar parasol" deployable in route. Since the Nixon is under constant acceleration, the solar parasol is able to function under that acceleration, it would've been easier to just set it up before launch, instead of storing it furled and requiring the effort of deploying it in flight. (though jettisoning it to reduce mass after the solar flyby sounds like a great idea.)
Andrea wrote: "I like the cat, reminds me of the one in The Wanderer. Apparently cats do well in low-g. Pretty sure my cat would be hanging off the ceiling in terror though......"
I noticed that Clover & Mr. Snuffles pretty much disappear from the story between launch and arrival. (I guess that's to be expected since he's not engineering or command or security.)
I noticed that Clover & Mr. Snuffles pretty much disappear from the story between launch and arrival. (I guess that's to be expected since he's not engineering or command or security.)
G33z3r wrote: "Andrea wrote: "I like the cat, reminds me of the one in The Wanderer. Apparently cats do well in low-g. Pretty sure my cat would be hanging off the ceiling in terror though......"I noticed that C..."
I haven't arrived yet (just made a near pass of the Sun) but Clover shows up a fair amount. He gives seminars and then he's in with Sandy and Cassandra about the betting pool about them getting into bed together. But no, he doesn't play a big role right now, he's just trying to keep busy. Be interesting if Snuffles plays a role in the alien first contact, otherwise I'm not expecting much from him, unlike the Mr. Snuggles from Midnight, Texas which is a whole other kind of cat :)
G33z3r wrote: "Chapter 34 — Chapter 11, where Martinez teaches Sandy how to pilot an egg while USSS3 is still in Earth orbit, authors go out of their way to assure us (thru Martinez) ..."
(view spoiler)
I'd never really put any thought into what would be required to get something in orbit around Saturn without getting pulverized by the rings, interesting and complicated.
And I now know what the ship had come to Saturn for. It was not what I expected, in fact I'm kind of loving the idea of it. I'll wait a little longer before describing it to avoid spoilers.
Andrea wrote: " Chapter 34: [Maybe liquid metal cooling systems weren't really..."
(view spoiler)
The eggs, BTW, being another example of a cinematically familiar element.
(view spoiler)
The eggs, BTW, being another example of a cinematically familiar element.
Andrea wrote: "I'd never really put any thought into what would be required to get something in orbit around Saturn without getting pulverized by the rings, interesting and complicated...."
Indeed, I liked the discussion of that problem. A little disappointed they didn't mumble more about it during the departure spiral-out. Has to be really tricky with such a low-thrust space vehicle.
The Cassini spacecraft mostly orbited outside the rings, occasionally sent thru to do a fly-by of a moon (which conveniently create the gaps :) In the final days NASA decided to send it straight thru a ring just to see what happened; it survived. (25% water, 20% CO+N2, 16% CH4, 35% misc organics) (NASA soon after sent it into Saturn itself.)
Indeed, I liked the discussion of that problem. A little disappointed they didn't mumble more about it during the departure spiral-out. Has to be really tricky with such a low-thrust space vehicle.
The Cassini spacecraft mostly orbited outside the rings, occasionally sent thru to do a fly-by of a moon (which conveniently create the gaps :) In the final days NASA decided to send it straight thru a ring just to see what happened; it survived. (25% water, 20% CO+N2, 16% CH4, 35% misc organics) (NASA soon after sent it into Saturn itself.)
Andrea wrote: "And I now know what the ship had come to Saturn for. It was not what I expected, in fact I'm kind of loving the idea of it. I'll wait a little longer before describing it to avoid spoilers.
Long enough.
SPOILERS
The idea of the alien trading depot, completely automated by multiple AIs (divided like bureaucratic departments) seemed a little... well, artificial.
I get that the authors want to play with the idea of interstellar trade without the aliens ever meeting or even exchanging species-specific information. Interesting notion that the elder races of the galaxy have discovered different alien species never seem to get along, so it's best to keep them from interacting directly.
On the other hand, the ease with which "Wurly" facilitates the transactions seemed a little contrived. It didn't really give Clover much to do: the alien AI handles all the compensation for human language, culture, biology, and even light/color conventions.
I was kind of hoping Clover would have more interpretation of alien meaning on his plate. Contrasted with Holsten in Children of Time, whose primary function was cultural translation between vastly different human cultures, which I thought was more interesting. (We discussed Children of Time earlier this year.) Or compare it to the detailed exploration in, say, Rendezvous with Rama.
It seemed to me like the time at the alien artifact was compressed, especially compared to the amount of time spent earlier in the book on setting up the mission and making the outbound trip. The authors seem in a hurry to use it just to set up their political thriller in the final third.
Long enough.
SPOILERS
The idea of the alien trading depot, completely automated by multiple AIs (divided like bureaucratic departments) seemed a little... well, artificial.
I get that the authors want to play with the idea of interstellar trade without the aliens ever meeting or even exchanging species-specific information. Interesting notion that the elder races of the galaxy have discovered different alien species never seem to get along, so it's best to keep them from interacting directly.
On the other hand, the ease with which "Wurly" facilitates the transactions seemed a little contrived. It didn't really give Clover much to do: the alien AI handles all the compensation for human language, culture, biology, and even light/color conventions.
I was kind of hoping Clover would have more interpretation of alien meaning on his plate. Contrasted with Holsten in Children of Time, whose primary function was cultural translation between vastly different human cultures, which I thought was more interesting. (We discussed Children of Time earlier this year.) Or compare it to the detailed exploration in, say, Rendezvous with Rama.
It seemed to me like the time at the alien artifact was compressed, especially compared to the amount of time spent earlier in the book on setting up the mission and making the outbound trip. The authors seem in a hurry to use it just to set up their political thriller in the final third.
G33z3r wrote: "On the other hand, the ease with which "Wurly" facilitates the transactions seemed a little contrived. It didn't really give Clover much to do: the alien AI handles all the compensation for human language, culture, biology, and even light/color conventions."Well, it is sitting in our solar system presumably spying on us for the past few thousand years, so it should probably know more about us than we know about ourselves
I also felt the story wasn't about the artifact but the political state back on Earth, especially with the Chinese "conveniently" making that huge mistake blowing up the anti-matter containment pod forcing them to have to share a trip back with the Americans. But perhaps they really did want to explore more how we would react if someone got hold of alien tech, than how we got that tech (although then why spend half the book just getting there if one wanted to focus on the fallout on the way back)
Andrea wrote: "Well, it is sitting in our solar system presumably spying on us for the past few thousand years, so it should probably know more about us than we know about ourselves..."
I was a little confused on that, too. The depot, per "Wurly", is 21,682 Earth years old (chapter 41), but has been in Sol system 1700 years. Which left open the question, which seemed obvious to me but not to Clover, what was it up to before it arrived at Saturn? A 21 millennia transit time seems unlikely. If it was previously at another system, why did it move?
I was a little confused on that, too. The depot, per "Wurly", is 21,682 Earth years old (chapter 41), but has been in Sol system 1700 years. Which left open the question, which seemed obvious to me but not to Clover, what was it up to before it arrived at Saturn? A 21 millennia transit time seems unlikely. If it was previously at another system, why did it move?
"Clover glanced at the other crew members, then asked, 'Is there a God?'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy joke?
Wurly: 'Concepts of God are extremely varied but the consensus of the varied species put the probability of the existence of God at forty-two percent."
G33z3r wrote: "I was a little confused on that, too. The depot, per "Wurly", is 21,682 Earth years old (chapter 41), but has been in Sol system 1700 years."I guess I need to double check that, I thought the 1700 was when the makers left, not when it arrived at Saturn. But still, 1700 years is enough to learn about us, after all it could really only do so after we started transmitting data so even 100 years of spying on all our transmissions should be enough to know us pretty well.
Andrea wrote: "I'm still pretty early on, about 150 pages. I'm enjoying the humour the author weaves into it (like the 1.2 million research initiative to see if they crew needs prostitutes on such a long trip, and if so, what *ahem* attributes should said prostitutes have), "For me this reminded the true story from WWI, when US troops arrived in France it was suggested by French to supply mobile bordellos, but Pershing was so enraged by the proposal that threatened to take back the troops
G33z3r wrote: "This is a really familiar structure for the start of this kind of story. Novels like 2001: A Space Odyssey, Rendezvous with Rama, and Contact (and the movies based on them),.."
I also thought about Rama as a source of influence - not only in the sense of strange astronomical object but the politicking that went on Earth.
Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy
Books mentioned in this topic
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (other topics)Rendezvous with Rama (other topics)
Children of Time (other topics)
2001: A Space Odyssey (other topics)
Rendezvous with Rama (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
John Sandford (other topics)Ctein (other topics)
John Camp (other topics)
(2015)
( John Sandford is a pseudonym for John Camp )