Literally Leander discussion

Hello everyone! Our first book of the year, for January 2019, was The Astonishing Color of After, a debut novel for Emily X.R. Pan. We're sure you all know the drill by now, but for our newbies (welcome!), this is a reminder that there will be spoilers for the book in this thread.

This month, our discussion questions are borrowed from Hatchette Book Group. And, as always, don't feel like you have to answer them! They're just prompts to get our discussion going. Otherwise, please leave us any observations or questions that came to you while reading.

1. The novel opens, “My mother is a bird.” What role does the bird play throughout the story and how does it change as the story progresses?

2. The story has a nonlinear narrative where it’s told in the present and through flashbacks. Why do you think it was told through this narrative structure? Did you find it effective?

3. Throughout the book, Leigh struggles with her identity as someone who is half white and half Taiwanese. How do you think she ends up finding her identity?

4. Communication is an ongoing issue in the book, whether it is Leigh with her grandparents or with her best friend, Axel. Does communication ever get easier for Leigh? Have you ever experienced something similar to her?

5. What significance do food and tea bring to the book? How did they affect your understanding of the characters?

6. When Leigh meets Feng, she is jealous of Feng’s connection with her grandparents. How does Feng serve as a foil to Leigh’s character?

7. The book has a realistic setting with elements of magic. Why did the author choose to incorporate magic? What impact did magic have on the novel?

8. Why do you think Leigh’s mother kept her sister a secret from her daughter? If Leigh had known this secret earlier, how would it have changed the way she viewed her family?

9. Grief is at the core of this novel as Leigh tries to find closure after her mom’s death by suicide. How does her family treat mental health? Why do you think there’s still a stigma on mental health issues?

10. How does Leigh use color to convey her emotions? What color do you think represents the novel?

We're looking forward to your discussion!

This book didn't hit me as hard as I was expecting it to. In fact, I didn't really connect much to Leigh or any of the other characters so it was hard to be emotionally invested in this book despite the subject matter and themes it was exploring.

Did any one find the Leigh and Axel romantic subplot believable? The chapters devoted to developing their relationship were probs my least favorite part of the book - and I love romantic subplots! But these two didn't have any chemistry to me, so it just felt tacked onto an already lengthy book.


9. Grief is at the core of this novel as Leigh tries to find closure after her mom’s death by suicide. How does her family treat mental health? Why do you think there’s still a stigma on mental health issues?
Both the dad and Leigh treat the mom's mental health deterioration as a secret. The dad tries to keep Leigh from finding out about her mom's condition/treatments; Leigh doesn't want her friends to find out - though I think she ends up telling Axel about it at some point.

Science has come a long way to show evidence that mental health issues are as legitimate a health concern as diabetes or high blood pressure. But even with science and experts in the mental health field shedding light into these issues, there is still a stigma that people who are mentally ill are not "normal", will be a danger not just to themselves but to others, or are just whining about being sad or anxious because they can't handle the stresses of the world as every one else does.... I don't know why these stigmas still persist. I wonder if it's because we grow up being told and believing that we 100% control our emotions and behaviors, and to not do so is not a sign of illness but of weakness? But we're learning that we are not as in control of ourselves as we thought (and that's a pretty hard thought to wrap your head around when you yourself are healthy.)

Elvia wrote: "Did any one find the Leigh and Axel romantic subplot believable? The chapters devoted to developing their relationship were probs my least favorite part of the book - and I love romantic subplots! But these two didn't have any chemistry to me, so it just felt tacked onto an already lengthy book."

I totally agree with you! I personally didn't feel connected to any of the characters at all. Unfortunately that included Leigh, who was really bland, and Axel, who was even blander. Honestly I felt like there were a handful of different plots going on--Leigh's determination to find the bird, the incense that showed her mother's past/the story of her aunt, and the flashbacks about Leigh and Axel. I think, in some way, that all of these things were supposed to be tied together by Leigh's grief: she grieves her mother's passing, she's upset that she never knew her mom's history or more of her Taiwanese heritage, and she feels as though her relationship with Axel is on the rocks.

I, too, felt like it was tacked on to the end, but I don't think it was meant to feel like that, you know? Like I think the author went in knowing that Leigh and Axel's romance was going to be an important part of the story. But due to the lack of character development, they didn't have much chemistry. Their relationship felt mediocre to the story overall.

Overall, I can't say that I was particularly impressed with The Astonishing Color of After. I gave it two stars for the story, but added on an extra star for the message on mental health (I thought it was really important and that the author handled it pretty well, showing how stigmatized it is and how devastating it is in one breath.)

2. The story has a nonlinear narrative where it’s told in the present and through flashbacks. Why do you think it was told through this narrative structure? Did you find it effective?
I actually wasn't really a fan of the present/flashbacks thing. I think it was meant to show Leigh the story of her family's past, and so it included all of the incense-induced flashbacks as a straightforward way to show Leigh her mother's world.

But I, personally, just wasn't a really big fan of it. Obviously a present/flashback narrative is nonlinear, but like, this was way more than nonlinear, if that makes sense? Like even the flashbacks were all over the place? And I personally didn't feel like Leigh spent enough time in the present anyhow.

3. Throughout the book, Leigh struggles with her identity as someone who is half white and half Taiwanese. How do you think she ends up finding her identity?
I marked a lot of quotes about Leigh's struggle with her heritage and ethnic identity. One was this:

I wish I felt more Taiwanese. I wish I knew these traditions, knew what to do. I don't belong here. I should just walk away.

Now, I can't say that I'm one hundred percent sure what Leigh's feeling; my family history is very European, so I've never experienced something like this personally. But I tend to notice that there's a theme in books featuring mixed race protagonists: that they don't feel like they fit in with either group, because it doesn't seem like they are enough for either one. A lot of the time, this feeling tends to be self-imposed, though there are plenty of stories were offhanded comments are read as "but you're _____, so you don't really know." That might've been the case for Leigh; her father wanted her to know her Taiwanese past, but her mother wanted her to be very "American," which unfortunately meant ignoring that family heritage. I'm not sure that by the end of the story Leigh actually finds her identity. I think she's still working on it.

9. Grief is at the core of this novel as Leigh tries to find closure after her mom’s death by suicide. How does her family treat mental health? Why do you think there’s still a stigma on mental health issues?
Oh, there definitely is. I mean, in our current day and age there's commercials and ads meant to stop the stigma, but who knows how far that message actually reaches.

I have a degree in psychology, and so I've learned a fair amount about mental illness (more so than the average person, I suppose.) Like Elvia said, mental illness is just as serious as a physical health condition. In fact, they're often tied together (people with anxiety tend to have issues with muscle pain, depression messes with sleep patterns, etc.)

The author's note in the back of the book conveys that the author felt inspired to write this story after seeing the stigma of mental health in her own family. According to her, it's something that her culture as a whole tends to see as negative (as do many other cultures, including that of America, just maybe not as badly?)

Personally, I believe that part of the stigma comes from the fact that our idea of "normal" is always changing. Our idea of how to handle issues and cope with our emotions is always changing. Mental health issues are solidly abnormal to the great majority of the population, therefore they're seen as something wrong. The same is said for health issues: when you're sick, people say, "Oh, what's wrong with you?" The word "wrong" itself has a negative connotation, therefore mental illness is seen as a negative thing that, depending on the person, might be enough to be feared/avoided.

10. How does Leigh use color to convey her emotions? What color do you think represents the novel?
I thought the way Leigh used colors to explain her emotions was interesting. At the same time, it felt like a way to pound the idea that she was "artsy" into the reader. But for the most part, I saw it as creative and expressive in a way that we don't usually see.

And now finding myself so directly named--hunxie, mixed blood--like a label printed out and affixed to my forehead… it makes something twist in my guts in a dark and blue-violet way.

Realistically, colorology isn't scientific fact. Colors mean different things in different cultures, and the idea that colors can influence mood is not anything statistically supported by evidence. But most of us get what Leigh means when she says she feels blue-violent, or ugly green, etc.

I did not really like The Astonishing Color of After, but I'm proud of myself for reading it anyway! This is the first book club book I have finished in a couple months. Maybe listening to audiobooks on 1.25x speed will be my new trick for getting through difficult books.

2. The story has a nonlinear narrative where it’s told in the present and through flashbacks. Why do you think it was told through this narrative structure? Did you find it effective?
One reason I think this narrative structure was used was to allow for a sort-of omniscient narrator to explain things that Leigh was not aware of, while still using a first-person narrative. It's a creative way to tell a story from multiple perspectives. However, I struggled with the narrative structure. I struggled to keep the timeline straight. I recently read a book called Ghost Boys that was sort of similar in structure in that it included both flashback and present day events, switching between them every chapter or so. However, the events were told pretty much chronological. I understand that that structure wouldn't quite work for this book because there were so many different perspectives of the flashbacks, but I do wish this book followed more of a linear structure.

3. Throughout the book, Leigh struggles with her identity as someone who is half white and half Taiwanese. How do you think she ends up finding her identity?
I do not think Leigh ends up fully finding her identity. I think this is a process that she will continue to work through. I do believe that going to Taiwan helped her get more in touch with her Taiwanese side as she met her maternal grandparents and was inundated with Taiwanese culture.

6. When Leigh meets Feng, she is jealous of Feng’s connection with her grandparents. How does Feng serve as a foil to Leigh’s character?
Feng is everything that Leigh is not. She speaks perfect English, Mandarin, and Taiwanese. She is close to Waipo and Waigong. She even looks like them. One way Feng serves as a foil is to highlight Leigh's struggle to find her identity as half Taiwanese and half white since Feng is supposedly the perfect Taiwanese woman. "If I joined [Feng and Waipo], I would only make it look odd. This strange American girl, who doesn't really speak the language of her ancestors. Her hair not dark enough, and hands gripping the incense uncomfortably. Her faith uncertain. I wish I felt more Taiwanese."

9. Grief is at the core of this novel as Leigh tries to find closure after her mom’s death by suicide. How does her family treat mental health? Why do you think there’s still a stigma on mental health issues?
Leigh’s family treats mental illness like it’s a secret and something to feel shameful about. When Leigh’s mother needed to undergo shock treatment, her father sent her to camp. I thought it was interesting that he tells Leigh he didn’t want to upset her by telling her about the treatment and that there’s a lot of stigma surrounding it, but then he is stigmatizing mental illness. As Emily X.R. Pan states in her author’s note: "My family let the stigma surrounding [depression] become one of the darkest, sickest traps. That stigma can and does kill. That stigma is perpetuated by not talking."

I also have a degree in Psychology and have a lot of feelings about the stigmatization of mental health. I totally agree with what Kristen and Elvia said about why mental health is stigmatized. I think the stigmatization of mental health is caused by a lot of interrelated factors. Not to be controversial, but I think that religiosity can also play a role in the stigmatization of mental health. Some religious traditions view mental illness as a symptom of a spiritual problem. I recently had a conversation with someone who was told to “pray away” her mental health issues. I know that all religious traditions are like this, but the ones that are do little to help our already rampant societal problem of stigmatizing mental health issues.

I'm currently reading Darius the Great Is Not Okay, 2019 Morris Award and Asian Pacific Award winner. Maybe because I just read The Astonishing Color of After, but I am seeing strong similarities between the two books. Like Leigh, Darius is half-Asian (Iranian, in Darius' case) who travels to Asia to meet his maternal grandparents for the first time. Both novels were written in 2018, are the debut novel for both authors, and frankly discuss depression. So my question is: What book have you read that you would compare to The Astonishing Color of After?

Christine said: "6. When Leigh meets Feng, she is jealous of Feng’s connection with her grandparents. How does Feng serve as a foil to Leigh’s character?
Feng is everything that Leigh is not. She speaks perfect English, Mandarin, and Taiwanese. She is close to Waipo and Waigong. She even looks like them. One way Feng serves as a foil is to highlight Leigh's struggle to find her identity as half Taiwanese and half white since Feng is supposedly the perfect Taiwanese woman."

I like this answer a lot; I think you're spot-on. I couldn't find a way to gather my thoughts on their relationship, but I think you phrased it perfectly. Leigh's trouble with her cultural identity is partially to blame for her immediate dislike of Feng. But I also think that maybe Leigh felt like Feng was in her place? Like if her mother had been more forthcoming with her past, and allowed Leigh to meet her grandparents, perhaps she'd be the one who fluently spoke three languages, who was confident being seen in public with her family, etc.

And to answer your question about similar books: I found it hard to find books that look at cultural stigmatization, and I think you might've already read them. But I'll go ahead and write them down anyway. ;)

I feel that this book shares some with our previous book club book, Eliza and Her Monsters, as I felt both of them took a little time to talk about mental health and how some families struggle with understanding it.

Starfish might be a little more like the novel; both protagonists are half-Asian (in Starfish, she's half-Japanese), both struggle with mental health issues, and both have strained relationships with their mothers.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any others that align themselves with The Astonishing Color of After. Maybe they're out there and I haven't read them yet. Or maybe we just really need more books like this one.

What book have you read that you would compare to The Astonishing Color of After?

I came across another book today that reminds me of The Astonishing Color of After. I haven't read it yet though since it doesn't release until June. The book is The Confusion of Laurel Graham. After her grandmother becomes comatose, Laurel searches for a mystery bird in hopes of saving her grandmother.

I just found out that The Astonishing Color of After was selected as a Young Adult Honor book in the
2019 Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature! While I did not like the style of the book, I appreciate how it promoted Asian/Pacific American culture and heritage. The young adult winner was Darius the Great Is Not Okay, which I have recommended already on this post.

Here's another question: Have you read any young adult books published in 2018 that you think would be good nominations for the Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature? While I am pleased with this year's winner and Honor book, I would like to nominate American Panda as another possible contender for the award.

@Kristen: I haven't read Starfish, but it's been on my TBR list for a while. I checked it out from the library yesterday upon your recommendation. Thank you! I hadn't considered the similarities between The Astonishing Color of After and Eliza and Her Monsters, but you bring up a great point about how both books have family members that fail to understand mental health. (Also kudos for mentioning another book club book.)

Christine wrote: "@Kristen: I haven't read Starfish, but it's been on my TBR list for a while. I checked it out from the library yesterday upon your recommendation. Thank you!"

I'm glad! I remember liking the book well enough. I also plan to read the author's more recent Summer Bird Blue, and I believe she already has a few more books in the works. It seems like she's becoming pretty prolific, so hopefully we'll see more Asian/Pacific American novels.

For your question about other books deserving of awards, I have to admit that I don't really pay a lot of attention to book awards (which seems practically sacrilegious, I know.) I think it's because I always like to take my own view of the book without being heavily influenced by the opinions of others, so I've never been really interested in it. But I think I have a few books that I read and enjoyed, so here we go:

A Thousand Beginnings and Endings is an anthology of short stories by Asian/Pacific American authors, retelling the stories of their cultures. Like all short stories, this one was a mixed bag; I liked some really well and some not that much. But it was nice to see such a culturally appreciative anthology!

And I've probably already told you to try Flame in the Mist, a fantasy based on feudal Japan. It's sequel, Smoke in the Sun, came out in 2018. I loved both of them!

This last one was published in 2017, so it doesn't really count, but I really liked The Epic Crush of Genie Lo. It was a hilarious urban fantasy based on Chinese mythology.

Christine wrote: "I just found out that The Astonishing Color of After was selected as a Young Adult Honor book in the
2019 Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature! While I did not like the styl..."

I loved American Panda!! I have Darius the Great Is Not Okay and have heard so many wonderful reviews for it. Anxious to read it soon.

Kristen wrote: "Christine wrote: "@Kristen: I haven't read Starfish, but it's been on my TBR list for a while. I checked it out from the library yesterday upon your recommendation. Thank you!"

I'm..."

I enjoyed The Epic Crush of Genie Lo as well. It was entertaining, yet taught me a lot about Chinese folklore which I wasn’t very familiar with.