Reading the Chunksters discussion

What a delicious section! Rex is forlorn over Gwen's rejection and wants to flee to Canada, but the rest of the family is secretly thrilled that no relationship materialized. Mr. Mallinger Grandcourt is introduced, and we learn a bevy of women would like to marry him but that he has eyes for Gwen. Gwen initially seems to think that if she has to get married then it might as well be him as he seems the best option. Meanwhile, Gwen's relationships with Mrs. Gascoigne and Anna have soured over her treatment of Rex. We learn that Gwen doesn't have many friends, but she doesn't seem to care. She attends a ball and seems to enjoy refusing to dance certain dances and making Grandcourt wait for her. She toys with Grandcourt, and can't seem to decide if it would be a good idea to marry him or not. Grandcourt's employee Lush intervenes, meeting a woman and two of her children at the train station, who we learn are Grandcourt's lady and their children. The woman, Lydia Glasher, informs Gwen that she and Grandcourt have four children and that she deserves to marry him, and Gwen, while subdued, determines that she most decidedly will not marry him and takes the next train to Dover to escape.

In this section Gwen really seems to struggle with what her real options are in life and how she could best achieve happiness. She knows an unmarried woman would have little ability to move about and take action freely, and so she seems resigned to marry someone. She certainly doesn't seem taken with Grandcourt, but initially seems to think that he is the best of the options if she has to get married. Of course, once she meets Lydia she decides all men are evil and flees.

Why do you think Grandcourt is interested in Gwen given her lack of status and chafing manner? After he said, "Damn her!" I was wondering why he continued the chase. What does he have to gain?

If Gwen does in fact not marry, what is the best-case scenario for her given the time and place that she was in? Would she be able to live in relative freedom, even if it was without luxury?

How do you think Gwen's mom's experiences conditioned Gwen to view marriage and relationships?

I really enjoyed this section. I think Grandcourt is attracted to Gwen and wants her to be a ‘trophy wife’. He doesn’t seem to cherish her like Rex does and doesn’t seem to be interested in her inner feelings.

Without a husband she would depend further on her family & connections & would probably sink to a lower social status. I admire her confidence that she doesn’t need to cling on to a man to give her stability.

Her mother definitely gave her a disillusioned view of marriage. It is good to be realistic about marriage but being completely pessimistic would limit her life.

Was anyone else reminded of Pride & Prejudice in this section? The arrival of an eligible bachelor, excitement amongst mammas and daughters, the ball and other public social engagements? Of course, Eliot only brings up the reference to undercut it mercilessly: Grandcourt really *is* cold, aloof and uncaringly arrogant. The sunny side of Austen is erased, replaced by the harsh realities of the marriage market and the fate of abandoned women.

I agree that Gwen would be a token wife for Grandcourt - but also think he'd like to have her in his power precisely because she's defied him. Creepy, no?

Eliot herself, of course, had a career editing a journal before becoming a novelist: so it's *possible* but unusual and probably hard at the time. Gwen is intelligent but not intellectual in the way that Eliot was - her options seem limited outside of marriage, especially given the loss of family money.

I think the scene of Grandcourt with his dogs foreshadows how he treats all his possessions - wife, friends, mistress. He likes them for show, but do not aggravate him; he will dismiss you. In other words, I agree to Gwen being a trophy wife.

I thought all the pauses in Gwendolen and his conversations were humorous. He thinks carefully before he speaks so as not to be misunderstood. He clearly is not the impulsive sort as Gwendolen is.

I wish I could think of an alternative to marriage for Gwendolen. Her uncle is trying to guilt her into accepting a married life and I'm glad she was courageous enough to leave and become a traveling companion.

As I was reading, I wasn't thinking of how her mother influences her decisions, but of Elliot's asocial acceptance to the institution. Why would her heroine consent to such a life if she didn't?

My favorite line of this reading - "We are brought up like the flowers, to look as pretty as we can, and be dull without complaining."

Off the book, I'm enjoying this group so much. I'm thankful I found you.

Thanks Tammy and glad you are here!

I agree with you all that Gwen seems a trophy wife, although I suspect Grandcourt would prefer if she acted like the flower Tammy describes! Knowing now about his 'family', it really is appalling that he is showing up to Gwen's every day and no doubt driving Lydia to distraction. Gwen is in a tough spot - she wants to please her mother and her uncle, and knows her options are limited, but in her heart she is resistant to marriage and the gender roles women were expected to play at the time. I thought Gwen leaving town was a bit overdramatic - but perhaps she felt hamstrung with everyone's expectations of her looming. I wonder if Grandcourt is going to become irate that Gwen left or just forget about her altogether. Meanwhile, we have Catherine in the midst, perhaps she will end up with Grandcourt after all. It was noted in this section that Gwen had felt comfortable with Rex, so perhaps they will resume their connection, even if not as part of a romantic relationship.

As you say this section was very enjoyable, though perhaps the most conventional of the entire book - at this stage it still reads like a love story...

I actually felt pity for Gwen in this week's reading. She seemed almost like a little girl lost with no real support. Her family wants her to marry Grandcourt because of the financial benefit that would bring and are bringing to bear some pressure on her to accept him (note her uncle's words to her).

I believe Grandcourt thinks he deserves the best and since Gwen is the star among the women he knows then he thinks he should have her. The trophy wife as others have said.

I think Gwen leaves town to get away from the pressure of her family wanting to know why she is not accepting Grandcourt. I am not sure why she could not mention the 'other woman.' At this time period it may not have been so exceptional for a wealthy man to have a mistress so maybe there would have been no sympathy for her even if she had declared her reason. What else was there for a woman like herself other than marriage? Not a lot of options and even women with talent, like George Eliot, struggled much in life.

I am interested in Eliot's method of having a male and female protagonist in her novels. For example, in Middlemarch, the story is primarily about Dorothea Brooke and Doctor Lydgate. Here I expect it to be Gwen and Daniel. I feel this is Eliot's way of showing the differences in opportunity and freedom for men and women at the time.

One question; does anyone know how old Grandcourt is? I am wondering what the age difference is between Gwen and himself.

Grandcourt's age was mentioned somewhere - I think late 30s, so he is about twice her age when they first meet.

Tracey wrote: "At this time period it may not have been so exceptional for a wealthy man to have a mistress"

Absolutely, it was completely the norm for men to have sexual affairs and keep mistresses both before and after marriage - but the respectable surface had to be maintained. I think Gwen is shocked to be faced with the personal reality of Lydia, and also humiliated to have become unwittingly involved in this rather sordid affair. I love that Eliot is bold enough to go here.

Interesting point, Tracey, about Eliot's gendered protagonists and their different options and trajectories.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Was anyone else reminded of Pride & Prejudice in this section? The arrival of an eligible bachelor, excitement amongst mammas and daughters, the ball and other public social engagements? Of course, Eliot only brings up the reference to undercut it mercilessly:."

I noticed that too, and it is mentioned in the footnotes of my edition. Eliot definitely seemed to be mocking it.

I do not like Henleigh Mallinger Grandcourt. His behavior with the dogs rubbed me the wrong way, as did his treatment of his former mistress. Also, the name "Mallinger" has a bad connotation, which caused me to be suspicious of him right away.
I don't know yet if that word had the same meaning/significance at the time or if the name was just an accident. I guess I'll have to keep reading to find out.

Gwen seems to be a more complete character than the others. She has her positive traits (independence), but they have been overshadowed so far by her selfishness, indecision, and insensitivity.

Gwen started off the book a gambler, and my impression of her hasn't changed. She's taken a real gamble with her behavior toward Grandcourt (and marriage) as well. I suspect we are supposed to be drawing comparisons between both.

Hugh wrote: "As you say this section was very enjoyable, though perhaps the most conventional of the entire book - at this stage it still reads like a love story..."

have you finished already Hugh? Well if you have it sounds like there is more UNconventional content to come - looking forward to that!

Roman Clodia wrote: "Tracey wrote: "At this time period it may not have been so exceptional for a wealthy man to have a mistress"

Absolutely, it was completely the norm for men to have sexual affairs and keep mistress..."

If this was common, I wonder why Lydia thought she had a claim on Grandcourt. Wouldn't he have married her already if that was his intention?

Anne wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Was anyone else reminded of Pride & Prejudice in this section? The arrival of an eligible bachelor, excitement amongst mammas and daughters, the ball and other public social en..."

I think the name Mallinger was definitely intended to put a negative perception in the reader's mind - as the word 'malingering' is negative - the fabrication of symptoms of mental or physical disorders to effectuate fraud or avoid duty or work. So far I do not see any positive attributes in Grandcourt.

Lauren wrote: "Gwen started off the book a gambler, and my impression of her hasn't changed. She's taken a real gamble with her behavior toward Grandcourt (and marriage) as well. I suspect we are supposed to be d..."

It's a good point Lauren! Despite her notion that GC was her best option (if she had to take a husband), she rebuffs him and flees. Similarly, she squanders the finances she does have. Does she really have so much security that she can afford to take these risks?

I really enjoyed this weeks reading. I love people's points about the names. I thought the link of Mallinger to malingering is a very good point, especially in conjunction to Grandcourt. There was a small reference by Lush to GC having debts that need to be paid. So it seems Grandcourt has high pretensions about who he will be, he assumes he will inherit his uncle's title and yet seems a malingerer in that he does not seem to se the need to work or pay his debts as all will be sorted hen he inherits.

Lush, I don't trust, so are we to believe that this woman who he sends to speak with Gwen really is the mother of GC's children? Or is this a trick of Lush's?

I find it fascinating that a worldly man arrives and decides he must marry Gwen within knowing her so briefly and she, so resolutely set against marriage changes to wanting to marry so very quickly too.


Looking forward to reading what happens next!

Dianne wrote: "have you finished already Hugh..."
Yes, I can't really cope with having multiple fictions on the go at the same time, so once I'd started it I couldn't resist reading straight through.

Interesting point on names: Klezmer is the musical tradition of the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe

Hugh wrote: "Dianne wrote: "have you finished already Hugh..."
Yes, I can't really cope with having multiple fictions on the go at the same time, so once I'd started it I couldn't resist reading straight through."

Got it! Yes I used to be the same way but ended up adapting to multiple reads due to GR.

Tracey wrote: "Interesting point on names: Klezmer is the musical tradition of the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe"

Interesting - thanks Tracey! There really does seem to be a focus on jewish themes in the book - I am curious about where all of that is heading.

Tracey wrote: "Interesting point on names: Klezmer is the musical tradition of the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe"

How interesting! Thanks for sharing this fact.

Book 1 ends and Book 2 begins in this thread. I really enjoyed how Eliot continues to build on Gwendolyn’s story. In the previous thread, I mentioned how I didn’t understand from where Gwendolyn’s callousness was stemming, whether it was her inexperience with men, or her age? In these chapters it becomes clear that it’s the absence of any formidable male figure in her life for any extended period of time. She loathes the idea of marriage, but even worse holds the majority of men in contempt. What gave me pause was why she was taken by Grandcourt, who is unfriendly and arrogant…she likes this about him. I wasn’t sure what she was thinking here, but all I could think about was when people show you who they are…believe them! Yikes, for her…A snake and a lizard, it didn’t bode well for me. Yet, her hesitancy in marrying him brought me some solace, as it did when she felt remorse for killing her sister’s bird in Book 1. She’s not completely hopeless. Her Uncle Gascoigne’s pushing for the marriage was really disturbing, was it not?

I loved Eliot’s ability to draw from the world and put into perspective the chronology of history as it pertained to her stories in real time. The brief mention of the American Civil War in Chapter 11, how she draws upon the humanity of the mothers, wives, and sisters, of those who are fighting in the war in comparison to Gwendolyn’s problems was an eye opening moment for me. Eliot doesn’t condescend to Gwendolyn, but includes her in the bigger picture… of women in a man’s world, and the roles of women in society being just as important as that of men.

Grandcourt has a lover and she was the woman who Lush picked up at the train station…YES! I was quite taken by Lush at this point too…why was he working against his employer?

Can you imagine how tiring it must be to live in the midst of layers of hypocrisy and shades of truth. How difficult it would be to navigate through life when what is really happening is covered up and nothing is referred to as it really is? Maybe Gwendolen thinks this is how men are and Rex a weak almost female like man by being honest and forthright?

Tracey wrote: "Can you imagine how tiring it must be to live in the midst of layers of hypocrisy and shades of truth. How difficult it would be to navigate through life when what is really happening is covered up..."

I can. I find that in many ways we live like this now, unfortunately. Being told not to believe in what our eyes see and ears hear, it’s all still too prevalent.

Rex... sure. I was thinking Dreonda to be more of the androgynous character due to his aesthetically pleasing qualities and his motherly nature.