Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion

This is our discussion of the Contemporary novel...

Soon I Will Be Invincible by Austin Grossman
(2007)

I picked this book hoping it would be a little bit like one of my all-time fave superhero/villain spoofs Dr Horrible's Sing-a-along Blog (look it up on youtube if you haven't seen it).

It wasn't bad, but probably not quite as funny as I expected, that or the jokes went past me. There were certainly some things I quite enjoyed, like the exploration of what it means to be a cyborg. Fatale was probably my fave character simply because she seemed the most human.

This was wonderful as an audiobook. A comic book come to life. Instead of avoiding tropes, this book embraces them all, gives us the origins & motivations of each with a fairly twisty ending including a real shocker, but one that made sense. It was a lot of fun & well read by 2 narrators.

I started yesterday, and I'm just about 1/3 through.

Cat wrote: "It wasn't bad, but probably not quite as funny as I expected, that or the jokes went past me. ..."

I think I agree here, but having just read The Consuming Fire, I was probably expecting the constant Scalzi-style snappy dialog. The humor here is a bit lower-key and more situational than witty, though it has occasional flashes of that, too.

E.g., in the first paragraph I love the enumeration of the 1,686 enhanced persons on earth. "Localized" (trees!) It appears some supernatural critters of legend are counted, such as Elphin, so why not a tree? I love the casual way it mentions those who are "off-continuity", i.e. from different timelines. Then there are the "microscopic"; how does anyone know the "Infinitesimal Seven" even exist? What do they do, fight disease?

"I don’t know why it makes you evil. It’s just what you find at the extreme right edge of the bell curve..."

Jim wrote: "This was wonderful as an audiobook. A comic book come to life. Instead of avoiding tropes, this book embraces them all, gives us the origins & motivations of each with a fairly twisty ending includ..."

I picked up the ebook/audiobook package from Amazon/Audible. I've long felt that comedy was always funnier in audiobook form. (Also I still have 21 Audible credits to use between now and April 30. :) So far I've only done one chapter in audio, though.

I found the jumps back & forth between "origin" and "now" in the Doctor Impossible timeline a bit confusing.

"Things like this became normal, became the way we lived, waking curled up on the cool, hard gym floor, having slept the night away just inside the three-point arc."

OK, Major, Huge, Incredible, Impossible continuity error in this origin story flashback!

We know Doctor Impossible was already a super-villain by 1978 ("I built a quantum fusion reactor in 1978, and an orbital plasma gun in 1979") but the NBA didn't add the three-point shot until 1979. (Prior to that it had been the sole purview of the ABA, those sad pretenders of the red, white & blue basketballs.) No high school gym prior to then would have a three-point line.

This giant major error renders the entire origin story unreadable for this True Believer! Please send me my No-Prize!

G33z3r wrote: "OK, Major, Huge, Incredible, Imp..."

LOL! I thought the 3 point line was the same as the foul line. It's not just another name for the same thing? (I know nothing about basketball, though. I've never watched more than a minute or 2 of a game.)

I enjoyed it, particularly the chapters from Dr. Impossible's POV since he himself kind of makes fun of villains, like why do all geniuses become villains rather than heroes, and why do they all end up in jail in the end? Mind you, I never did really figure out why he wanted to take over the world, I mean yes, revenge on all the people that were mean to him, but somehow I never felt his passion to achieve his goal. It's almost more like it was something he *had* to do as part of his role, like wearing a mask/cape, and making cheezy speeches with an evil cackle at the end. He seemed to know he was playing a role in a story and he had to follow it's rules and expectations.

I liked Fatale's POV too but it wasn't so much on the funny side as it was on the dysfunctional side, finding out in all the ways the different heroes were actually broken people. It was more informative than fun. They never really did explain why these characters became heroes instead of villains considering how mostly miserable their lives were (Dr. Impossible wondered that too, why one goes one way and someone else the other, and of course we have some heroes that did do both)

I liked how he poked fun at the different hero/villain types too. He's got a "Batman" (all gadgets, no powers), a "Thor" (aliens and or mythological beings), a cyborg, an animal mutant, a "Dr. Strange" (magic) and pretty much everything else in between. I saw some reviews where people complained that he just story character ideas from Marvel/DC but I kind of felt that was the point, it was intentional that he didn't come up with something truly "new".

Was debating if this went on my SF or F shelf, my general rule is that fantasy can contain SF (after all physics still works in a magical world, otherwise everyone would float off the Earth with gravity) but not the other way around since SF cannot have magic...

Jim wrote: "This was wonderful as an audiobook. A comic book come to life. Instead of avoiding tropes, this book embraces them all, gives us the origins & motivations of each with a fairly twisty ending includ..."

Yeh, I can see how this would be better as an audio book. Especially if it had good narrators.

G33z3r wrote: ""OK, Major, Huge, Incredible, Impossible continuity error in this origin story flashback! ..."

Ah, but they have time travel. Maybe it's an alternate universe where it was earlier??? I mean we don't have superheros in capes running around in our real world... so... the history of basketball could be different?!

Andrea wrote: "I saw some reviews where people complained that he just story character ideas from Marvel/DC but I kind of felt that was the point, it was intentional that he didn't come up with something truly "new"..."

Really? They did? Oh dear. It is a satire, a spoof, a joke... to make fun of something you have to include things but point out the ridiculousness. I never went in thinking it was meant to be something new! And some of the ridiculousness was pointed out... but sometimes I felt like the author began taking things a bit seriously and missed opportunities.

I enjoyed Dr Impossible's chapters except for 1 teeny tiny thing repeated 1000x times.... 'I'm so smart'. Yes. I. GET. IT. The repetition started to really really annoy me by the end. I'm not really sure he had a motive either but then I'm never convinced that any villain does.

I think Fatale's would have been harder to make funny, but I liked the heroes-are-dysfunctional perspective. You know who's perspective I would have liked? Lily's. And that was even before we got to the ending.

Andrea wrote: "I saw some reviews where people complained that he just story character ideas from Marvel/DC but I kind of felt that was the point, it was intentional that he didn't come up with something truly "new"...."

Like comics weren't (aren't? I haven't kept up.) continually swiping each others characters! Sheesh. While they sued each other over it occasionally, given the similarities, it was pretty rare. Still, I'm sure the similarities were in this book just to make the digs deeper.

Andrea wrote: "Mind you, I never did really figure out why he wanted to take over the world,..."

It's just what you do at the extreme right edge of the bell curve?

Ruling the world seems like way too much work for me. I'm more into slacker evil. A few dozen billion in loot and I retire to my lair on Skullcrusher Mountain.

On the other hand, being a hero seems like a lot of work, too. Also very dangerous.

I liked Doctor Impossible's rationale for hating Corefire:

He could fly, which was reason enough to resent him. He didn’t even have the decency to work for it, to flap a pair of wings or at least glow a little. He seemed to do it purely out of a sense of entitlement— something about it suggested that the rest of us had simply knuckled under to gravity.

I like the way you think, G33z3r. Good quote, too. It made me chuckle again.

G33z3r wrote: "Ruling the world seems like way too much work for me. I'm more into slacker evil. A few dozen billion in loot and I retire to my lair on Skullcrusher Mountain..."

Haha, fair enough - a bit more like the evil Pharaoh then. (view spoiler)[ I must say I did like that the super strong invincible villain, the only one who could take on CoreFire, was the Pharaoh. He was 'slacker' evil, he could probably have taken over the world if he'd actually wanted but he was happy just chilling and making bad jokes. And no one ever realised that he was a match for CoreFire. Until that fateful day... I actually felt sorry for Pharaoh then, he hadn't actually done much to deserve that whereas CoreFire seemed annoying... (hide spoiler)]

Being a hero doesn't seem like that much fun, especially not if you're as dysfunctional as this lot!

Cat wrote: "Being a hero doesn't seem like that much fun, especially not if you're as dysfunctional as this lot"

It seems like no matter what, if you've got superpowers you're going to be a little dysfunctional, I mean if you look like a tiger you can't just walk into a store without everyone staring, that's gotta have an effect on your psyche.

At least if you are a supervillain you can flaunt your powers and actually go around saying "I'm better than you", instead of the hero that has be to humble and not scare us normal peeps.

I guess that's why Dr. Impossible mused how heroes have their secret identities but the villains kind of didn't, they just hid out in their lairs. The heroes try to be "normal" while the villains don't even bother, probably resulting in a more balanced psyche (although they are still evil, but at least happily so, instead of unhappily good)

I should have looked in the Appendices earlier.

For most of the book I was wondering when the story was taking place, using clues like the afore quoted Doc' "I built a quantum fusion reactor in 1978." Turns out it's set just about when it was published, 2006. Also, the list of heroes & villains is amusing (One of Doctor Impossible's aliases: "Smarticus" :)

Jim wrote: "This was wonderful as an audiobook...."

I used my Kindle to narrate the ebook text for the last few chapters and noticed some minor differences. I assume there were some corrections to the current ebook text after the audiobook was recorded. (E.g., in chapter 19 "But Before I Kill You", (view spoiler)[in the audiobook Doctor Impossible refers to CoreFire by his civilian name Jason throughout, while in the ebook he uses CoreFire throughout until he gets to the end when he uses it and reveals he knows CoreFire's secret identity.(view spoiler)[) (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Andrea wrote: "The heroes try to be "normal" while the villains don't even bother, probably resulting in a more balanced psyche (although they are still evil, but at least happily so, instead of unhappily good.)."

I don't know about that. A secret identity lets you go out in public, have friends, go to a bar, restaurant, movie, concert, store or scifi convention. Always being in your villain guise pretty much means staying in your lair/lab with the minions all the time. That's why I keep my secret identity, anyway.

"There’s a fine line between a superpower and a chronic medical condition." - Doctor Impossible

"Name's Reflux. Medical condition or super power, you decide."
- Incredibles 2

I wonder if Brad Bird read this book?

I listened to the Audible version of this book years ago. I think it may actually have been the first non-graphic superhero(villian) book I ever read. I really enjoyed the author's satirical take on the genre.

Finished listening to the book on Audible. I had a hard time with it, particularly the villains point of view. Maybe I just don't relate to villains well?

Like others in this thread, I too couldn't understand why he was trying to rule the world. Maybe it's something that only those with 300+ IQs can understand.

I found some of the Champion characters intriguing. In particular, I think that a book about Elphin's past could make for an interesting read.

Jaelle wrote: "Finished listening to the book on Audible. I had a hard time with it, particularly the villains point of view. Maybe I just don't relate to villains well?..."

I don't think Doctor Impossible is meant ot be understood. He's a caricature of comic book villains – megalomania, but no real motivation beyond that.

G33z3r wrote: "I don't think Doctor Impossible is meant ot be understood. He's a caricature of comic book villains – megalomania, but no real motivation beyond that. "

Kind of like when he wonders why all the geniuses end up in prison...I guess because when reading a superhero book the villains can't win :)

Jaelle wrote: "Finished listening to the book on Audible. I had a hard time with it, particularly the villains point of view. Maybe I just don't relate to villains well?

Like others in this thread, I too couldn..."

I did spend my time idly wondering how someone with a supposedly 300+ IQ could be so thick. Also, just googled it. Doesn't exist. Apparently the highest score ever (according to Guinness book of records) was by a 10 year old child who scored 228, which apparently is equivalent to an IQ of 185 for an adult.

I also thought that the champions were more interesting in someways. I felt like they had more depth because they were more flawed and dysfunctional. Certainly more that Dr "Look at me I'm so smart" Impossible. But again, he was a caricature, he wasn't meant to have depth...

Like those Bond villains, who could just shoot the guy and be done with it but no, have to have a long speech, where you expose all your plans and secrets, then set up some fancy machine with a bunch of knives and maybe a shark tank to kill him and leave the room so he can escape :)

Maybe there's a villain handbook that sets out the rules that must be followed, otherwise you can't be part of the villain club...or maybe it's like a law of physics or psychology, anyone drawn to villainy will also be prone to all these other silly things. Like it's encoded in the same gene or something.

I finally got around to reading this book and I ended up DNF'ing it. it seemed a lot like a cliff notes version of a bunch of heroes and villains, and there are tons.... There's also a lot of telling me what happened and not a lot of showing what's going on. And the final thing that bugged me was all the foreshadowing of Corefire, he's a super popular super hero and both Fatale and Dr Impossible think about him often, but just enough to tease you and try to raise interest about him. It was an overused ploy to raise the interest in him and ultimately drove me away from the book.

I finished it and thought it was OK. I rated it 3 stars which is probably a little bit generous. The narrative felt very detached, occurring mostly in the internal monologue of Dr. Impossible and Fatale, with not enough action or dialogue to move the story along quickly enough to hold the reader's attention for long.

RJ wrote: "The narrative felt very detached, occurring mostly in the internal monologue of Dr. Impossible and Fatale, with not enough action or dialogue to move the story along quickly enough to hold the reader's attention for long...."

I thought the issue was it wasn't funny enough. The title suggests it's meant to be humorous, and in some ways it is, but the internal dialog is dry, almost dull. I can imagine this written with the witty dialog of the Bobiverse series, a Scalzi novel or Joss Whedon TV script as much more entertaining.

G33z3r wrote: "I thought the issue was it wasn't funny enough...."

Good point and I agree wholeheartedly.

RJ wrote: "G33z3r wrote: "I thought the issue was it wasn't funny enough...."

Good point and I agree wholeheartedly."

Yes, absolutely. It had some vaguely amusing moments, but not any actual laugh out loud moments.