The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

XII. THE DAGUERREOTYPIST
XIII. ALICE PYNCHEON
XIV. PHOEBE'S GOOD-BYE
XV. THE SCOWL AND SMILE
XVI. CLIFFORD'S CHAMBER

This section opens with further details of Holgrave, as he espouses a philosophy of complete rejection of the old ways and laws, of refusing to follow history and of rejecting the rules or habits of our ancestors. Phoebe (and we) wonder why he would continue to live in such an old and musty house if he truly felt this way. Hawthorne continues to increase the drama and suspense with the tale of Alice Pyncheon and the ongoing and deepening intertwining of the tragic lives of the Maule's and the Pyncheons. The tension and drama are brought to a head with the threats of Judge Pyncheon and his subsequent death (of some sort of hereditary aneurysm or GI bleed brought on by anger or other strong emotion) which clearly reproduces the death of his ancestor. Hepzibah and Clifford, in their fear and horror, leave the house for the first time in months.

Well, Hawthorne sure changed his tone regarding Holgrave in Chapter 12 and rather abruptly, I might add? I have progressed from thinking Holgrave was likable with something very important to share, to really find him an endearing man -He carries a gift that is going to be game changing for the rest of the characters!

As those who have grown up in the house continue to live in its past (this is obviously now a recurring theme), we have Holgrave here, who knows much about the past, but believes in living in the present ridding oneself completely of any affiliated negative history. He wants a better life for Hepzibah and Clifford, but their transformations are slow in surfacing. Although, Hepzibah and Clifford continue to make strides in their livelihood, the changes made are not enough to free them of their legacy. Hawthorne said it best in reference to Holgrave, His error lay in supposing that this age, more than any past or future one, is destined to see the tattered garments of Antiquity exchanged for a new suit, instead of gradually renewing themselves of patchwork... I thought this was brilliant!!

What a great chapter (12) filled with easter eggs. I'm not sure if this was a double entendre on the word "judges" here, A dead man sits on all our judgement seats; and living judges do but search out and repeat his decisions, or just further confirmation about Judge Pyncheon's activities?

Holgrave's diatribe further discussing a generation affected by its legacy, who choose to build its own houses and liberate themselves from the past, ...would imply every reform which society is now suffering for, evokes a response from Phoebe I was not prepared to read. She essentially says he hates everything old and the idea of a changing world makes her dizzy. I was not expecting her to feel this way, but I guess her naiveté is slowly disappearing as she transitions into womanhood-she's becoming better settled in the house and within her own skin. I wonder if she's turning into another Hepzibah?

Your name, I think, is Maule- Matthew or Thomas Maule-a son or grandson of the builder of the house? 'Matthew Maule,' replied the carpenter, 'son of him who built the house, grandson of the rightful proprietor of the soil.' (Chapter 13, Alyce Pyncheon)

I'm not sure why, but while I was reading the above statement, it played out like the "My name is Maximus..." scene between Maximus and Commodus in the gladiator arena...For those of you who are not familiar with Russell Crowe's character in "The Gladiator" as Maximus Decimus Meridium, it was by far the best part of the movie!

Ami wrote: "Well, Hawthorne sure changed is tone regarding Holgrave in Chapter 12 and rather abruptly, I might add? ..."

I especially like the subtle analysis of Holgrave's character: "he considered himself a thinker, and was certainly of a thoughtful turn, but... had hardly yet reached the point where an educated man begins to think."
Holgrave turns out to be younger than I expected - 22 - yet is as bound up with the past as the older people in the house.

Emma wrote: "Ami wrote: "Well, Hawthorne sure changed is tone regarding Holgrave in Chapter 12 and rather abruptly, I might add? ..."

I especially like the subtle analysis of Holgrave's character: "he conside..."

Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but I find Holgrave to be more "affiliated" than being "bound" to the past. If he were "bound" to it, then would we not observe him to be exhibiting some of the same negative personality traits, due to the dreary house, Hepzipah and Clifford readily display? Holgrave is progressive in thought, he understands how being a prisoner of the past impedes betterment. A prime example of this is when Holgrave tells Phoebe the story of young Matthew Maule and Gervaise Pyncheon...We learn from Holgrave's bewitching story, he too possesses a power similar to that of young Matthew Maule; but instead of allowing Phoebe to become completely entranced by him, Holgrave stops himself- young Matthew Maule did not.

I too would have thought he would be a little older than 22? I remember thinking, how Holgrave has already lived a multi faceted lifetime in such a short period.

I just finished the chapter on Alice Pyncheon, and read a little of the next chapter, up to where Holgrave stops himself from completely entrancing Phoebe. The story of how Maule "takes over" Alice is like something out of Twilight Zone. Father makes bargain with no idea what it will really cost him, and wouldn't have believed it if told.

Definitely a gothic flavor in Holgrave's story. Given the fact that while he is reading it, he has that some power over Phoebe tells me at least that he's a descendent of the original Matthew Maule. But, unlike his ancestors, I don't think that he's seeking revenge, or he would have done the same to Phoebe as the Matthew Maule in the story did to Alice. I think - and I could be wrong - that he's trying to understand his history.

The other part that interested me was the Judge. The Judge is obviously corrupt, and yet, he is seen in a positive light throughout society. As Hepbizah realizes, people would never question his version of Clifford.

It annoyed me because what Hawthorne is saying 150+ years ago is sadly still true today. I'd like to go off on a rant against today's corporate leaders and politicians here, but I won't. :-)

Since the beginning of the book - and even more so in these passages - I have thought how "New England" this book is (I'm a native New Englander - Connecticut). It's hard to put into words, but gothic tales belong here. (It's no surprise that Stephen King is a New Englander (Maine)!

Later in the book, in the part discussed in the final thread, Hawthorne comments at more length about the public perception of the Judge, and how public perceptions can change after a man's death.