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Let's Play Two: The Life and Times of Ernie Banks
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Lance (sportsbookguy) | 15732 comments Mod
Share your thoughts on "Let's Play Two" here


message 2: by Harold (last edited Feb 08, 2019 12:38PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments If your work colleague showed up every day with a happy greeting, saying what a beautiful day it was to work, regardless of the weather or work conditions, what would you think of that colleague? Is it an act or is it genuine? Doug Wilson's biography of Ernie Banks will provide you with the facts, the interviews, and the life of Banks so that the reader can make its own judgment.I was fortunate enough to have seen Ernie Banks play in person and on television for many years, and to have seen interviews with him as he grew older. So, when I saw that Doug Wilson, a prolific writer of baseball biographies, had written one on Mr. Cub, I was anxious to read it. This is not a mere rehash of games played and statistics. Sure, Banks and Honus Wagner were the best shortstops in history until the 80's. Most of us know of his powerful wrists and the damage he could do with them despite having absurdly "narrow shoulders" for a power hitter. He was the first man to go from the Negro leagues to a major league team, and to be enshrined into the Hall of Fame without having had any minor league experience.
But what makes this book so fascinating and compelling is the mystery of the man behind the image that Banks created for so many years. As Wilson says, "Ernie Banks was a paradox: at once absurdly simple and impossibly complex." For decades the holy trinity of most beloved players has been Musial, Banks, and Brooks Robinson.Wilson explores Banks' dreadfully poor and humble upbringing in a segregated southern town and his eleven siblings. The guidance of his father and mother largely shaped the child who would become a man who was always "satisfied" with and grateful for his life. While other players took activist stands about JIm Crowism, Banks accepted the way things were-sometimes to the consternation of people like Hank Aaron. He avoided controversy and throughout his career he avoided answering any question that could turn controversial by adroitly turning the question around to suit his needs. He was intensely loyal to his owner and to his team.
Wilson had access to many of Ernie's teammates, Chicago writers, and others so we get a comprehensive examination of the man behind the image. Wilson raises all of the important issues.Was Banks the real deal or was it an image he created? He was nothing but sunshine and smiles on the outside, but was he a prisoner of the image he cultivated? As Wilson readily admits, no one can say definitively, but he offers evidence from the words of teammates or even opponents like John Roseboro to decide whether the happy smiles and optimistic expressions were merely annoying shtick or genuine heartfelt emotion. Just what motivated this man to bring optimism to the game every day year after year notwithstanding he never played a postseason game? Was it true joy or was it shtick to perpetuate an image? If the latter, Wilson shows that Banks didn't exploit that financially in his after baseball years. Quite the contrary, as you will read, Banks' last years were plagued with financial woes. The last couple of chapters will sadden you because Banks wasn't perfect. He was a paradox. At ease and content to be alone, but longing to make everyone he met happy. He was, as he aspired to be, a peacemaker. Case in point- the Leo Durocher reign and the controversy over Leo's treatment of Banks. Was Durocher's treatment motivated by jealousy of Mr. Cub himself, a degrading of Banks' skills, a managerial decision to rebuild or what? And through it all, despite the hurt, Banks still pleaded with Durocher not to quit the team that Durocher realized he had lost. I choose to remember Ernie Banks as a great player, a wonderful man, a man of complexity, and someone worthy of The Presidential Medal of Freedom. This is a wonderful exploration of his life- a satisfied life.


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 15732 comments Mod
Wow - what a great review! Will be reading it either over the weekend or early next week, so it sounds just as good as I thought it would be.


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
Did not write review yet. I’ll do that on Sunday. After reading this I was ready to strangle Leo Durocher. Too bad he’s already dead. My dad has told me countless stories about 1969 but he’s never delved into intricacies. That Durocher never played the bench or used emergency starters under a hotter than usual summer sun was dooming his team from day 1. I also thought that Mr Cub was untouchable whereas management shipped off Jenkins, Santo, and Williams. Ah, not so. Durocher wanted to get rid of Mr Cub from day one on the job and then had the chutzpah to under utilize him. If only the management then had the brains of today’s maybe Ernie Banks would have played in the post season. One thing my dad does remember is that Ernie nearly moved to his neighborhood because he couldn’t afford much else and that he regularly spoke at Boy Scout banquets. Think Kris Bryant going to a local troop today, it just doesn’t happen. Mr Cub faced his share of hardships but for the most part overcame them. I will add more of that in the full review. Once again, our friend Doug Wilson has written a stellar biography and as a bonus let me enjoy stories that I grew up only hearing about second hand. I hope that this gets good publicity in the baseball book world.


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments I'll post my review here and on Amazon on the 14th


message 6: by Mike (new)

Mike Reuther | 124 comments Good review Harold. In the Leo Durocher book, "Nice Guys Finish Last," Durocher talks about what a drag he felt Banks was on the team, how he was too old and way past his prime.


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments Yes I read his book last year. Yet when he did let Ernie play, he did very well.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

Harold wrote: "If your work colleague showed up every day with a happy greeting, saying what a beautiful day it was to work, regardless of the weather or work conditions, what would you think of that colleague? I..."

Nice summary Harold. I'm glad you mentioned the personality because I think that is what sets Ernie apart from most every other Hall of Fame caliber player--and not the cliche optimistic, Mr. Cub personality, which I felt had been over-emphasized in recent years when people talked about him. That one-dimensional view of him was simplistic, condescending and even insulting to who he really was.

I honestly think that he was a basically good guy who, as you said, had a very intense desire for people to like him. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but in another time and place, he could have been like Brooks Robinson (not to be trite, but I looked and could not find any evidence that Brooks was anything other than the second best person ever to walk the planet).

The thing that was interesting and unique was Ernie's baggage of experiences (little of which was his own doing), set up on top of this basic good-guy personality.

I was thinking of the guys I've researched: if you asked Mark Fidrych a very pointed question about a controversial and potentially negative topic, he would have laughed, said the first thing that popped into his head and asked you to buy him a beer.

If you gave that same question to Brooks, he would have paused, sat down with you and given you a very serious, well-thought-out answer, then walked you to the door with his arm around your shoulder and probably would have sent you a card on your birthday.

If you gave that question to Carlton Fisk, he would have looked you straight in the eye, told you to go f*** yourself and walked away.

If you gave that question to Ernie, he would have smiled broadly, said what a great day it was and how lucky everyone was to be at the beautiful friendly confines, then asked about yourself, commented on a familiar topic about your home town and ten minutes later you would walk away feeling lucky to have met him, not having realized that you spent nine of the minutes talking.

And looking at those, I think Ernie was really doing the same thing as Fisk, but coming off looking like a nice guy while doing it.


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments Well put Doug. Doug remember my baseball teacher last winter Al Goldis the old White Sox Director of player management? He posted a picture of him, his wife, and Ernie banks in 2015 at the Hll of fame induction ceremonies. Ernie looks frail. Check out his facebook page.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Ernie was very frail at that one, which was his last. I have a friend who took 2 pictures of Ernie leaving a signing event--it looks like the back parking lot of a B & B I stayed at once (right across from Mickey's Place). But, anyway, Ernie was sort of hunched over, but still waved and smiled. I thought it was interesting that his lounge singer friend was in the corner of one of the pictures--she accompanied him everywhere the last few years.

Sad how age eventually gets all of us.


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
Here you go, Doug and others. If there is a way to cut/paste this to Amazon, let me know and I’d be glad to do it.
My review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments Hey Brina, you gave so much info that people may not feel the need to read it. LOL!


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
Did I? I thought I only briefly touched on episodes ;). Ernie did almost move to my dad’s neighborhood but the kids mobbed him. He felt more in his comfort zone on the south side. He also spoke at my dad’s Boy Scout banquet numerous times, signed countless scorecards and baseballs for the kids, and was a favorite of so many. It really is a shame that the the Wrigleys and the Tribune didn’t let him manage or utilize him more in the organization. And yet I remember him coming to Cubs convention and to games. I guess that was later on when the Tribune felt pressured to give him a greater role in promoting good will. See I didn’t write that? I just reviewed two books involving the Cubs. It is tough to keep it at a minimum when I have countless personal stories to add to an already stellar book.


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments Just kidding. PS I tried to post it on Amazon but the site said it cannot be reviewed until its publishing date


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

Harold wrote: "Hey Brina, you gave so much info that people may not feel the need to read it. LOL!"

Thanks Brina. I didn't know the part about your grandmother.

Although a lot of people thought Ernie should have had a shot at managing the Cubs, it probably would have hurt his legacy because the team was so bad in the mid '70s noone could have won with that team; failure would have been inevitable.


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
Oh it gets better. My grandparents were products of the depression. They didn’t understand what it meant to leave things over and to counter that they wanted kids to eat in abundance. My bubbe would bring a shopping bag full of food to the games- sandwiches, pretzels, fruit, cookies. It was enough for the whole row and she would pass it out to all the kids sitting around her. My grandfather was a cabbie and could not afford much and told her to stop unless she started charging for the salami sandwiches. She did this well into the 80s when I was old enough to remember her doing it.


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

Brina wrote: "Oh it gets better. My grandparents were products of the depression. They didn’t understand what it meant to leave things over and to counter that they wanted kids to eat in abundance. My bubbe woul..."

Nice story.


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
Only nice if you’re telling it. If you were with her you wanted to die of embarrassment.


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 15732 comments Mod
Wouldn't be embarrassed if one was one of the kids getting the food! Nice story and review. I will finish it sometime tomorrow or the next day. Didn't want to risk damaging or losing the paperback on the train or at the hockey arena, so I read an ebook on my phone. Anyway, my review will be up in a day or two. I am at the point where Leo is hired. So far I loved the comedy known as the College of Coaches for the best illustration of Cubs mediocrity


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
She gave away my chocolate chip cookies!!! I should get my dad on this discussion. He lived through all of this. Including Ernie and the 8 dwarfs in the 50s with guys like Moose Moryn and Dee Fondy. A true comedy of errors indeed.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

Brina wrote: "She gave away my chocolate chip cookies!!! I should get my dad on this discussion. He lived through all of this. Including Ernie and the 8 dwarfs in the 50s with guys like Moose Moryn and Dee Fondy..."

But in their defense, Moose Moryn and Dee Fondy were probably good people and not terrible players, but just not nearly good enough. The pitching staff, on the other hand, were almost uniformly terrible players (although they might have still been good people). Cub management from those years seemed to have no idea how to develop a pitcher--they would get good arms frequently and proceed to ruin them within a few years.


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
I didn’t it’s that they weren’t nearly good enough although Moose saved a no hitter once. The clip of Brickhouse’s call is on YouTube. The Cubs still can’t develop pitchers so not much has changed. In fact management called themselves out on it this offseason. Their best pitcher Holtzman signed out of high school and then was traded to the As as we all know. Other than that, Fergie and Pappas were imported. Not sure about Hands but judging by Cubs ability to draft pitchers he probably was too.


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
I grew up thinking that 1969 team was cursed by the black cat. The alternate theory was that if Ken Hubbs didn’t die in a plane crash, then the Cubs would have been stronger at 2nd. That is nixed because Beckert was solid up the middle. It was all Leo’s inability to use the bench and the Wrigleys being too cheap to put in lights. I still wonder- would I have lived through 2016 if the Cubs had won in 1969.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

Brina wrote: "I didn’t it’s that they weren’t nearly good enough although Moose saved a no hitter once. The clip of Brickhouse’s call is on YouTube. The Cubs still can’t develop pitchers so not much has changed...."

Hands came from the Giants in the Hundley deal (a good trade for the Cubs).
Dick Ellsworth was signed by the Cubs in the '50s and had a good career (W-L record reflects the quality of the team some years) and may have been their best home-grown guy of that era. They signed a boat-load of high school pitching aces to big bonuses, but none panned out. The bonus rule of the era killed off many, but they all seemed to get arm injuries. Some, like Moe Drabowsky, Jim Brosnan and Fred Norman, went on to good years elsewhere. A patient approach and some good coaching may have saved many of these.


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments Doug, who did you enjoy talking to the most, who was most friendly, open and honest from the players you interviewed?


message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

Great question Harold. The best part of researching a book is talking to former players and finding out what kind of guys these previously impersonal-faces-on-baseball-cards are.

Don Kessinger was certainly a gentleman who had a very casual, friendly manner and was very helpful. He laughed when I told him one of my earliest memories of him was an appearance he made on a Billy Graham crusade (at the time I thought getting up in a packed stadium and talking about Jesus was much more scary than batting in the ninth inning of a tie game--actually still do).

Lindy McDaniel was also very friendly and open. He also shared a lot of non-Ernie Banks stories from his long career, talking about different teammates, managers and opponents.

Rich Nye was very interesting and I enjoyed listening to his stories of his post-baseball career as an exotic bird vet.

Jim Marshall had some good stories and opinions both from playing with Ernie in the late '50s and then managing the miserable Cubs with Ernie coaching in the early '70s. He also talked at length about his playing days in Japan in the '60s and particularly his friendship with legendary slugger Sadaharu Oh.

Dick Ellsworth may have been the best as far as thoughtful, insightful perspective. He seemed to be very intelligent and observant and did not seem to hold anything back.

The late Jerry Kindall was one of the nicest guys I've ever interviewed.

One of the most fun was a guy I had never heard of. He was an 80+ year old guy who pitched for the Cubs in 1953 and 1954 named Jim Willis. He was still actively farming on the family land in rural Louisiana when we spoke. He spoke very openly about race relations of the time and his impressions of Ernie and Gene Baker when they joined the team. He talked so long that I started to feel bad, taking up so much of his time. But when I tried to close the call, he said, "Wait a minute, I've got another story. Remember, you called me, so you don't get to hang up until I say so."


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

Another good one was Lee Thomas, who Leo brought in to try to replace Ernie in 1966. He added a few good stories about his executive Phillies days and talked of his friendship with Jim Fregosi, which started in the early Angels days and led to him hiring Fregosi to manage the Phils.


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments Doug wrote: "Great question Harold. The best part of researching a book is talking to former players and finding out what kind of guys these previously impersonal-faces-on-baseball-cards are.

Don Kessinger was..."
Fabulous and I do remember Jim Willis!
I was impressed with Lindy McDaniel as a man too in reading your book.


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

Harold wrote: "Doug wrote: "Great question Harold. The best part of researching a book is talking to former players and finding out what kind of guys these previously impersonal-faces-on-baseball-cards are.

Don ..."


McDaniel was about as straightlaced a man who has ever played the game. He said his first major league roommate was Jim Brosnan. Brosnan, who was a confirmed atheist, used to ridicule McDaniel's religious beliefs--McDaniel said he was disappointed Brosnan didn't want to debate, he just wanted to ridicule him.

Every night McDaniel would be in bed like a good boy by 10 or 11 and Brosnan would come in at 3 AM drunk and pass out on the floor. Finally McDaniel asked to change roommates.

I always wonder if sometimes the manager or traveling secretary or whoever it is that makes rooming assignments liked to do things like that just for fun.


message 30: by Harold (last edited Feb 11, 2019 02:56PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments Doug wrote: "Harold wrote: "Doug wrote: "Great question Harold. The best part of researching a book is talking to former players and finding out what kind of guys these previously impersonal-faces-on-baseball-c..." Great story and yet Brosnam was called "The Professor because he was reading all the time. I guess he could both.


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 15732 comments Mod
Just posted my review - as always, an excellent book by Doug. I especially enjoyed his insight into the racism faced by Banks and other black players at that time. It doesn't matter how many times I read about that and which player is highlighted, I am always amazed and saddened by these stories. In Ernie's case, it is even more amazing with his personality. It was interesting to then read about those who felt he didn't do enough to promote civil rights.

https://sportsbookguy.blogspot.com/20...


message 32: by [deleted user] (last edited Feb 13, 2019 06:17AM) (new)

Thanks Lance. That was a point I spent alot of time researching; talking to Ernie's teammates, on the Cubs and Monarchs, old friends and trying to read between the lines on all of Ernie's interviews over the years. It was also helpful to recall my conversations with Brooks Robinson's friends from Little Rock about how things were there and their views now. I also talked to my best friend from college--an African American from a small town in South Carolina. I was best man at his wedding and me and another buddy and our wives were the only white people there. There were some things we had never talked about 30 years ago and I'm not sure why.

It is always a delicate subject where one wrong or misread word can cause hurt feelings or bring even swift, indignant condemnation.

Ernie's response was unique among players. I had heard of some complaints about Ernie, and Willie Mays as well, in the late '60s by more militants civil rights people but I didn't know the issue until I was deep in research. Nate Oliver, whose dad played in the Negro Leagues and who grew up in St. Petersburg (his dad coached a young Ed Charles along with his other kids, and he says the memorable appearance of the kid in the movie 42 might or might not have been accurate) was extremely helpful with insight on the difference between the reaction of Northern blacks vs. Southern blacks to racism. He, and Ernie's childhood friends as well, described how the southern black community back then prepared the kids for what was coming and how to deal with it.

Gives me a better perspective on where people are coming from in some current issues. Not sure I agree with everything, but at least I know where they are coming from.


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

One other topic: I didn't go into complete detail on the '69 season (there have been at least 4 or 5 books completely devoted to that season, several are very good), but chose to tell it mainly from Ernie's perspective, but I always like to play the devil's advocate. Everyone seems to blame Leo for burning out the guys, but what if . . .
Seaver, Koosman, Gentry and McGraw hadn't all four started doing their best Koufax imitations at the same time in mid-season. What if Shamsky, Garrett, Weiss, Clendenon, Harrelson, Jones, Agee and Swaboda hadn't all suddenly come up with career years (several were never even close before or after)?

If the Mets don't get burning hot and play unbelievable ball the last 3 months, no one else would have challenged the Cubbies. They would have cruised into September with a commanding lead, Leo might have rested the starters the last few weeks, they probably would have routed an underwhelming Braves team in the playoffs and set up a great World Series with Baltimore.

Leo would have been universally acclaimed as the second coming, the euphoria may have carried over for the next two years.

Who knows? Maybe it was just the Cubs bad luck to be on the wrong side of destiny with the Mets.


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
Mets weren’t cursed. Only plausible explanation.


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 15732 comments Mod
There's always the black cat...


Brina | 10278 comments Mod
I have a black cat. I take offense. And Cubs were already wilting when that incident happened. Of course if 2016 didn’t happen I’d be discussing this with pure venom.


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 15732 comments Mod
Don't have one now,but I have had three black cats and loved them all. Just was thinking of that 1969 story as well


message 38: by [deleted user] (new)

One of the things that makes this whole thing great is when a former player makes a nice, unsolicited gesture.

After the Brooks Robinson book I got a 2-page, hand-written note from reliever Eddie Watt saying how much he enjoyed reliving his Oriole years with the book.

I just got a message on facebook from Darrel Chaney. I sent him a copy because he contributed a great story. He wrote me a note and thanked me for the book and said how much he liked it so far.

Now I can finish the rest of my day with a smile (and I feel bad about all those things my father used to say about him--he never appreciated the value of utility infielders).


Harold Kasselman | 19200 comments That's great to hear.


message 40: by Tony (new)

Tony Castro (tonycastro) What struck me most about Doug Wilson's handling of the Ernie Banks story was how he put into context Ernie growing up in the Jim Crowe era of Texas in mid-20th century America. I happen to be of the same age, growing up in Texas at the same time. Perhaps anyone of color who has had a similar experience and had some success in life looks upon the hardships of surviving that time as incomparable preparation for handling the challenges in a non-color environment.


message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

Thanks for the comment Tony. I thought Ernie's developmental years were extremely important in understanding his personality and appreciating his achievements. Everyone reacts to that environment differently and I don't think anyone of our time can really pretend to fully understand it. That's why I really needed the voices of the guys who grew up with him and I tried to use their quotes to allow them to say things that would have seemed fake or empty if I had tried to say the same things.


message 42: by [deleted user] (new)

Also, I had some conversations with a long-time personal friend of Ernie's who shed some light on his multiple marriages that I couldn't really put in print because there are still some legal battles over his will and possessions.

But basically, he said that Ernie ended up in situations where the women looked at him as their cash cow. They all took advantage of him to the extent that they bled him dry. He always had a good lifestyle, but ended up with little cash at the end. His last wife and the lounge-lizard both spent lavishly on an opulent living, and sometimes contributed to his tax problems because of some of their moves.

Each time he divorced, he basically walked away with nothing--he was content just to be free to start over.

But he never showed a negative side publicly.

He was definitely a complicated guy.


message 43: by Tony (new)

Tony Castro (tonycastro) Doug wrote: "Thanks for the comment Tony. I thought Ernie's developmental years were extremely important in understanding his personality and appreciating his achievements. Everyone reacts to that environment d..."

Good points, Doug.


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