Reading the Chunksters discussion

ahhh! So Gwen is engaged to Grandcourt after all! Why do you think she ultimately did it? For her own comfort, to aid her mother? Would she have agreed if the family had not lost its wealth? What did you make of the comments about Rex and Gwen no longer being an option - do you think Rex will resurface in some way later in the novel?

Personally, I was unclear about why exactly Grandcourt insisted on marrying Gwen. I felt bad for Lydia and her sad attempts to win him over even after it was clear that the love in their relationship had evaporated long ago - while she noted it was for the welfare of her children, she also agreed that she had no other friends besides him and so I think she was probably co-dependent. As for Grandcourt, he mentioned that he doesn't like women who just accommodate his whims and wanted to be the master of a woman who 'might have' mastered other men. Interesting - because it is clear that he believes he will be the master but certainly Gwen doesn't think that for a second at this point! The whole Gwen/Grandcourt relationship seems very odd - and I'm sure that Gwen's mother was crying not just because she would miss Gwen but also because she realized that this marriage was more of a sacrifice than anything else.

Meanwhile - Daniel - why does he reappear at this point in the story? It's clear it isn't to win Gwen over, although she seems fascinated by him.

Mirah - where do you see the story developing here? Will Daniel pursue her, and her faith as well?

I think she went ahead with the marriage with a high degree of reluctance, mostly because the other options didn't appeal to her at all, and partially to ease her mother's predicament. Up to this point Daniel has been quite peripheral, but I don't think it is much of a spoiler to say that this changes later (and helps to explain why the title isn't Gwendolen Harleth!)

I too think that GH would not have agreed to marry Grandcourt if she thought she had a good alternative (of course there were alternatives but not ones GH likes or would be good for her family/mother.)
Lots of pointers about how their marriage will be in this week's reading. She compares his voice to something irritating whereas she noticed Daniel's was nice. She is rather startled and fearful when kissed realizing maybe for the first time that she does not have sufficient or any attraction to have found the first kiss something to treasure.
I think the reason Grandcourt wants GH is because he likes to be dominant. Being dominant with an already submissive woman does nothing for him and I suspect he is excited by making a woman submit, much like being able to break a fine horse. It all just about breaks your heart knowing how cold and oppressive this marriage is going to be for GH.

I was amused by the Meyrick girls thinking they might just convert Mirah to Christianity, obviously having no understanding of what being Jewish means to those who are. It is more than religion, it is a national and cultural identity and Mirah expresses somewhat her own shock at being anything other than Jewish.

An interesting point I thought was Daniel going to the Synagogue and a man there wondering about his ancestry by asking who his mother is. Genealogy is very important in Jewish thought; just look at all those A begat B passages in the Old Testament.

I found the encounter between Grandcourt and Lydia Glasher fascinating. It's notable that his children don't like him, his daughters are even timid in his presence.

This scene feels like one that is likely to happen in the background of many Victorian novels but which doesn't make it to the page - a bold choice, then, by Eliot.

She makes very clear that though Grandcourt is 'fair' in the way he gives Lydia financial support, she's the one left suffering and outside society.

It does, also, make Grandcourt a more rounded character: he did once love a woman, was once capable of passion, wasn't always the cold figure who now takes pleasure in the prospect of breaking Gwen's spirit.

I am so tickled I am where I am supposed to be. I found Lydia very vindictive, but to the wrong person. Lydia and her family was wronged; I understand, but to torment Gwen is wrong. Gwen tried to do the honorable thing, but circumstances forced her marry. I guess I was just mad that LYdia manipulated poor Gwen's feelings and ruined her wedding night. Although, who is to say I wouldn't have done the same thing.

My favorite character, so far, is Mirah. I think there is some parallelism between the two heroines. Both wanting to do right by their mothers and their mothers' customs. Is it just me or did anyone get the feeling that Eliot was trying to acknowledge that being Jewish was not racial, but religious, which was pretty radical and unheard of in this day and time, wasn't it? I just admire Eliot's bravery more and more as I read.

Hope everyone continues to be sick free.

Tracey wrote: "I too think that GH would not have agreed to marry Grandcourt if she thought she had a good alternative (of course there were alternatives but not ones GH likes or would be good for her family/moth..."

That is a good way of saying it. Being Jewish is a national identity. I like your choice of words. I understood why Mirah was offended, but couldn't seem to put it in the correct words.

I thought Gwen married Grandcourt because it seemed like the least bad option of a lot of bad options (to her way of thinking). From the way Grandcourt treats Lydia, it is obvious that this can't have a good outcome.

Oh wow, so much happened in this section! I'm getting very invested in these characters now, including Mirah and Lydia who are both so interesting for the sociopolitical angles they bring to this story. Being jewish myself I'm loving Mirah's storyline in particular, and it's giving me a sense of how judaism was conceived of (and experienced) at the time in Western society.

I'm listening to Juliet Stevenson's reading (and occasionally dipping into the text) and am now completely immersed in the story. I'm not sure where Mirah's storyline is heading, other than it must be catalyst for Deronda's journey of self discovery? I'll keep going and catch up over the next few days.

I was so happy to finally get Deronda and Gwen back in the same room in this section. I am really interested to see how their relationship develops in the book. While I think that Gwen married GC due to her family's new circumstances, previous to knowing about Mrs Glasher and children she was considering marriage to GC. I think the change in circumstances changed her mind about the need to consider GC's already existing family rather than if she actually likes him as I think she does, though this is now much more conflicted for her. But the tones of doom keep occurring in relation to their marriage. I also think this is going to be a power struggle with both thinking they will be master.

Mirah and Deronda are interesting. Maybe he will discover Jewish heritage and so the barrier to him pursuing a relationship with Mirah would be resolved. It is really interesting to read the anti-Semitic views that were quite widely held at the time.

I posted up a new topic thread for chapters 33-36 to keep the discussion going until Dianne gets back. Hope this is ok.

I'm through this point now. There was definitely a lot going on! I'm hoping for good things, but I have a feeling things are going to get worse before they (hopefully) get better!

Gwendolyn’s thoughts about her marriage to Grandcourt…

She was thinking of him, whatever he might be, as a man over whom she was going to have indefinite power, and her loving him having never been a question with her, any agreeableness he had was so much gain (315).

Oh, good Lord. Gwendolyn may be a snake in many ways, but she’s clearly not as sharp as one. Grandcourt too, for that matter, is just as delusional about her love for him. That serving of humble pie for either one can’t come quick enough.

The gambling motif is threaded through these particular chapters rather heavily, Gwendolyn has asked Deronda his opinion on gambling as she’s about to take a great risk by marrying Grandcourt. Mostly, I saw the parallels between gambling to the relationships in this story and life as a matter of gains and losses. It’s really all one big power struggle throughout. I did wonder at this point if Gwendolyn would actually go through with the marriage considering all her apprehension and sleepless nights lying awake at night.