Literally Leander discussion

The featured book for March 2019 was a favorite of one of our staff members: The Cruel Prince by Holly Black. As always, please be aware that there are spoilers in this thread for the novel.

This month, our discussion questions were written by a staff member, but remember that you're not required to answer these. They're only prompts! For those of you that don't need them, we'd be happy to hear anything you have to say about this book, whether they be opinions, observations, or questions of your own.

1. The book starts off with a prologue, in which a young Jude sees her parents killed. The man who murders them announces that he will now take the children with him and raise them as his own. What kind of tone do you think this sets for the novel?

2. What are your feelings on Jude’s relationship with Madoc, her parents’ murder and her adoptive father?

3. The Faerie kingdom appears to be split into three circles: the grackles, who seek merriment; the larks, who value art; and the falcons, who live for battle. Which of these three circles interests you the most?

4. Jude wants to be part of the Faerie Court by becoming a knight, while her twin sister Taryn hopes that she’ll fall in love and marry one of the fae. If you were in their predicament, which way would you prefer to make your mark? Or, like Vivi, would you rather try to return to the human world?

5. How would you describe Jude? What kind of heroine do you think she is?

6. What are your opinions on the suggested romance between Jude and Cardan?

7. Did you foresee the ending? Where do you think the series will go from here?

8. After finishing this book, are you planning on continuing on with the series?

We're looking forward to your discussion!

The Cruel Prince is by far one of my favorite books ever. Holly Black is an author who's been around for some time, but I've only read a handful of her books. And, I have to admit, faeries aren't usually my thing. I mean, they're above aliens (I'm sorry?) but below dragons. It's a delicate system.



Anywho, I think the reason I adored this book was that it took the tales of faeries seriously in their history. They aren't all sparkles and butterflies and Tinkerbell-magic, but they're bloody, dangerous, and frighteningly inhuman. And Jude, who is just a human girl, manages to be just as conniving and clever as the faeries around her, determined to better them when she's always been told that she is less. What's not to like?

Plus, I'm a sucker for enemies-to-lovers romances, and I have a feeling that this is where the book will go (Jude x Cardan, please). Also, if it doesn't, I will be mildly annoyed. (I still can't get over the betrayal I felt watching Avatar: The Last Airbender. It's been years but my feelings will not be swayed.)

1. The book starts off with a prologue, in which a young Jude sees her parents killed. The man who murders them announces that he will now take the children with him and raise them as his own. What kind of tone do you think this sets for the novel?
I actually really liked how twisted the beginning of this book was. It certainly sets a tone for the novel: throw out your ideas of sparkles and unicorns, because this will be a bloody affair. If a book is going to be based on mythological creatures/monsters of folklore, I want it to be the scary, dangerous kind.

And, honestly, I think it begins to set a precedence for the world of faerie in general. Madoc says:

“I may be cruel, a monster, and a murderer, but I do not shirk my responsibilities.”

To me, this clearly states that the book is going to be dark, and that Madoc taking the kids in is by no goodwill of his own, but due to a system of rules and responsibilities that even the fae consider law.

2. What are your feelings on Jude’s relationship with Madoc, her parents’ murder and her adoptive father?

Many nights I drifted off to sleep to his rumbling voice reading from a book of battle strategy. And despite myself, despite what he'd done and what he was, I came to love him. I do love him.
It's just not a comfortable kind of love.

The dynamic of their relationship was another major plus for me. We have this terrifying faerie general, a redcap who takes ritual in dipping his hat in the blood of the enemies he has slain, raising and protecting a mere human child as if she is his own. The world of fae is very clear in their outlook of mortals, yet Madoc has raised Jude and Taryn as his own children, lent them his crest as protection, and bought them clothes and money. They are not treated as unwanted children hidden away under staircases; they have their own bedrooms filled with things that they like.

And yet, he killed their parents for what most would undoubtedly call petty revenge. He brought them into a world where they would be shunned and teased by those more powerful than they, a world where they can only truly raise their rank by becoming mortal consorts. He has wronged them, and he has loved them. Jude, in turn, both hates Madoc but loves him return. He caused her great strife, but he could've been worse.

4. Jude wants to be part of the Faerie Court by becoming a knight, while her twin sister Taryn hopes that she’ll fall in love and marry one of the fae. If you were in their predicament, which way would you prefer to make your mark? Or, like Vivi, would you rather try to return to the human world?
This is one of those questions where I feel the answer would be obvious: I would totally want to be some amazing heroine in a world full of fae. But in reality, I think I might actually try to return to the human world. There's a comfort in being with people like you, and both Jude and Taryn are never relaxed. They're always on guard, knowing that deep down, they don't belong in this world.

But I think I understand why Taryn and Jude have decided to attempt to stay in faerie, albeit using very different methods. They know little of the human world. They have spent most of their lives in the world of the fae, and what's scarier than the unknown? To the human world, Jude and Taryn don't exist. At least they know what to expect in the fae world, how to conduct themselves and survive. I think that there's a feeling of complacency regarding the girls and their willingness to stay instead of trying to return to the lives they could've had.

5. How would you describe Jude? What kind of heroine do you think she is?
I'm historically a little iffy about antiheroes. I imagine that I like them as much as the next person, but I haven't really been able to put a book/character to the word. But now I have one. I feel that Jude very much embodies the definition of an antihero; she has plenty of flaws (selfishness, stubbornness, greediness, and impulsiveness, to name a few) but she also has some really good qualities. She's compassionate with her family, caring to some degree, hardworking, and determined. Her methods aren't always the best choice, her mind is a little twisted, but I understand why she chose that method, and I can't help but find myself in her corner.

“I thought I was supposed to be good and follow the rules,” I say. “But I am done with being weak. I am done with being good. I think I am going to be something else.”

Jude has a certain strength to her that's required out of heroes and heroines. She has taken her fear and made it into her strength. Her despised humanness she uses in unorthodox ways to become a spy, her ability to lie masterminding a coup d'etat.

Yes, they frighten me, but I have always been scared, since the day I got here. I was raised by the man who murdered my parents, reared in a land of monsters. I live with that fear, let it settle into my bones, and ignore it.

I mean, how could you not love her?

6. What are your opinions on the suggested romance between Jude and Cardan?
As I mentioned before, enemies-to-lovers is by far one of my favorite tropes in romances. I don't know why, really, other than the fact that I adore couples that bicker on the surface but love deeply. I mean, just take this quote about Cardan for example:

I hate him more than all the others. I hate him so much that sometimes when I look at him, I can hardly breathe.

Like, sign me up for that, please.

7. Did you foresee the ending? Where do you think the series will go from here?
I read the book a second time for book club, and so I obviously knew what to expect this time around. But the first time I read it, I believe I was pretty shocked. Madoc's underhanded methods (impressive, given his inability to lie and deceive), Jude's call to arms, and the reveal of Oak as the illegitimate child of an heir were surprising. Even now, when I understand Jude's reasoning behind putting Cardan on the throne instead of Oak, I am impressed and astonished by her daring plan to control the faerie kingdom in the shadows, like a puppet master tugging on strings. Of course, I don't think that it'll work out easily, but I'm all the more intrigued.

8. After finishing this book, are you planning on continuing on with the series?
Of course! I actually bought a copy of The Wicked King because I like to own books that I know I'll be going back to reread!

What lifted my rating from a three star review to a four star was how I am now totally invested in how this political game of intrigue is going to end. At this point in my life, that's no easy feat since I'm attracted to stand-alone novels than serial books. So, well done, Ms. Black, well done.

The story was pretty well fleshed out and I found every character's motivations for their actions believable, which I think is a pretty hard thing to accomplish with such a wide set of characters. The tone was delightfully dark and nefarious throughout, and I'm not convinced that there will be an HEA (happily ever after) for Jude and Cardan, which instead of being off putting is actually pretty exciting to see how those two get on in the sequel. Bwahaha!

1. The book starts off with a prologue, in which a young Jude sees her parents killed. The man who murders them announces that he will now take the children with him and raise them as his own. What kind of tone do you think this sets for the novel?

Uhm, it pretty freaking states this ain't your sweet little Disney sanctioned fairy tale. there will be blood! there will be dubious intentions! there will be emotional trauma!!
And I was like ayyyee, cool, sign me up.

2. What are your feelings on Jude’s relationship with Madoc, her parents’ murder and her adoptive father?
A very twisted relationship to be sure, but I found it easy to believe that a child could love, in their own way with their own conditions, a parent that is pretty much a monster. It happens all the time in the real world, can't see why it wouldn't translate into the fae world too.

3. The Faerie kingdom appears to be split into three circles: the grackles, who seek merriment; the larks, who value art; and the falcons, who live for battle. Which of these three circles interests you the most?

If those are my own choices, I guess art.

4. Jude wants to be part of the Faerie Court by becoming a knight, while her twin sister Taryn hopes that she’ll fall in love and marry one of the fae. If you were in their predicament, which way would you prefer to make your mark? Or, like Vivi, would you rather try to return to the human world?

Nah, I'd hitch a ride with Vivi and make plans with her to go to Target.


7. Did you foresee the ending? Where do you think the series will go from here? I actually did kinda forsee the ending but only because I thought, after the family was slaughtered, how much more intriguing would it be if Cardan was somehow crowned king. Then Cardan give his promise to Jude to do what she says for a year and a day, and I knew my little wish was going to come true. I was like "Ooooooooh, this is happening!!" *flaily hands*

8. After finishing this book, are you planning on continuing on with the series?

Yep!

@Elvia, If you run away with Vivi and go to Target, aren't you pretty much selling your soul anyway?

Lol, it's only a piece of my soul. Not the entire thing. :p

It took me two months but I finally finished The Cruel Prince. I know objectively this is a good book, but I really struggle with reading high fantasy novels. I did enjoy The Cruel Prince more than I thought I would though and am proud of myself for pushing through until the end.

3. The Faerie kingdom appears to be split into three circles: the grackles, who seek merriment; the larks, who value art; and the falcons, who live for battle. Which of these three circles interests you the most?
I would definitely be in the Circle of Larks. I would choose this circle by default because the other circles are not appealing to me at all. I also would choose the Circle of Larks because, at least initially, I thought Elowyn would make a good ruler. After all, Elowyn did save Jude when she was eleven.

4. Jude wants to be part of the Faerie Court by becoming a knight, while her twin sister Taryn hopes that she’ll fall in love and marry one of the fae. If you were in their predicament, which way would you prefer to make your mark? Or, like Vivi, would you rather try to return to the human world?
I would definitely return to the human world. I would hate to live as an outsider in the faerie world where I was humiliated all the time and had to watch my back to avoid being glamoured or fed faerie fruit. Also, I personally am not interested in pursuing either of the choices Jude and Taryn made, whether in the faerie or human world. I do not enjoy fighting so would not want to become a knight of the Faerie Court like Jude. I also don't want to get married so don't hope to fall in love and marry one of the fae like Taryn.

5. How would you describe Jude? What kind of heroine do you think she is?
Jude was morally ambiguous to the point of almost lacking morals completely. She solved her problems through violence, murder, and deception. I would describe her as an anti-heroine. Even when she made morally good choices, they are made for bad reasons, such as for her to gain power.

6. What are your opinions on the suggested romance between Jude and Cardan?
It felt unrealistic to me. Unlike Kristen, I do not like the enemies-to-lovers romance trope. I prefer slow-to-burn romances. I am a sucker for happily ever after, or at least happy-for-now romantic endings, and am not certain that this is in the cards for Jude and Cardan.

7. Did you foresee the ending? Where do you think the series will go from here?
I did not anticipate the ending. I was particularly surprised when Cardan was crowned king. I want to know more about Oak's life growing up in the human world. Maybe he will decide that he prefers shopping at Target to living among the faeries and refuses to become king.

8. After finishing this book, are you planning on continuing on with the series?
I might give The Wicked King a try. I think I might enjoy it more because there will probably be less world-building as most of it was done in the first book. I am also curious to know more about what is going to happen with Cardan on the throne and Jude controlling his actions.