Women's Classic Literature Enthusiasts discussion

Hello amazing members!

Some of us are new at being moderators and wanted to give you a thread to make suggestions for the group. :)

All suggestions will be considered, thank you guys.
Also if you have a suggestion you don't want to make public you can message me and I'll pass it on to the other mods.

As we attempt to reconstitute and recreate this group, I'd be really interested in knowing what you most liked about the original group. What drew you to it (or to this group)? What would you most like to see from this group? What's been done wonderfully in the past and what could use some improvement? What hopes, dreams, goals do you have for our future? Any and all input is welcome!

One of our thoughts as mods has been to have alternating months dedicated to specific themes. An example is that October & December will be themed, but not November.
We will ask for suggested themes for next year from later in September.

Alexa wrote: "As we attempt to reconstitute and recreate this group, I'd be really interested in knowing what you most liked about the original group. What drew you to it (or to this group)? What would you mos..."

I got into the classics this year and joined several classics groups. But they were broad and were reading a lot of stuff I either wasn't interested in or had never heard of (that's not bad, it's just not what I need right now). Since I hadn't read most of the commonly known classics they weren't for me.

When I saw this group it seemed to be covering common classics written by women. Big fan of women writers! That's what drew me to this group :)

What I liked most about this group were the really detailed thoughtful discussions!

What I like is having found a group of readers who don't think that those "bulk fiction" pot-boilers on the best-seller lists are "literature". (Although this week, the current Pulitzer Prize winning novel is on the list among all the 'latest' books churned out by the keyboard jockeys. I refer to All the Light We Cannot See, by Anthony Doerr.

I have enjoyed the outings I've gone on with this group, but I have one small quibble . . . all those wonderful women writers whose mother tongue was (or is) English have contributed a wealth of good reading to the world. But . . . .
We've done only an occasional excursion outside English/Canadian/Australian/New Zealand/Indian writers, all of whose literary language was English. Yes, I remember about reading Madame Bovary, Anna Karenina, and The Waiting Years, but I submit, friends, that only one of those three classics was actually written by a woman, Fumiko Enchi. I am hoping that we can go farther afield in 2017, and read womens' literary works that have been translated into English. There have been and are some top-notch translators at work in the world. Also, in some cases, native authors in the "post-Colonial" era, particularly in Africa and parts of Asia, used English, French, and Spanish as their literary language. An example of this would be Buchi Emechata, of whose books I have read with interest The Joys of Motherhood, and Double Yoke. A third group of marvelous books by female writers is a sub-genre of books about the "immigrant" experience, such as Anya Yezierska's book, The Bread Givers, or Fifth Chinese Daughter, by Jade Snow Wong.

I'm pretty sure that we did not read Madame Bovary or Anna Karenina in this group since they were not written by women. However, we did read The Waiting Years when we had a special themed month for Asian writers. One of the issues I found was that many of the Asian female writers were written less than 50 years ago. I believe we lowered that to 25 years during that month. We also read July's People when we had a special theme of African writers. Although several "native" authors were nominated, the group selected a white author.

Are the immigrant novelists contemporary writers? (Never mind, these are old enough to be considered classics!)

We will certainly consider taking nominations in these categories in the future.

Mizzou wrote: "I have enjoyed the outings I've gone on with this group, but I have one small quibble . . . all those wonderful women writers whose mother tongue was (or is) English have contributed a wealth of go..."

Would possibly having a topic in the general category for foreign writers (easiest way to describe it but may not be the best)? As long as there is a country of origin associated with the book and/ or author, it would make it easier for members to have a starting point to look for those types of books. Also when we have specific theme months it would help.

Yezierska's book was published in 1922, and Wong's came out in 1945.

If we do have a Canadian-themed choice any month this year, and I am only allowed to nominate two books, it's gonna be a difficult winnowing down process for me!

I guess you will have to decide which are the best. You can also wait to see what others are nominating. Maybe someone else will nominate your choices.

In this community, we've read quite a few books about women who had what we used to call "gumption" back in my native state, Missouri. After getting acquainted with Mildred, the heroine of Barbara Pym's Excellent Women, I got to thinking of some of the others who've had to deal with problematical men, in fiction. And I decided to warn anyone who hasn't already read The Bread Givers, by Anzia Yezierska, not to do so. If you disliked the men, especially Rocky and Julian and Everard, in Excellent Women, you might get really irritated by the father in The Bread Givers!

Mizzou wrote: "In this community, we've read quite a few books about women who had what we used to call "gumption" back in my native state, Missouri. After getting acquainted with Mildred, the heroine of Barbara ..."

I can't decide whether this is a red flag for a bull (me) or a siren calling me to read it! Thanks, mizzou! I'm one that enjoys going in forewarned and then am challenged to deal with what's there.

Then, "with the clear understanding that this kind of thing could happen", let me provide a bit more info about Bread Givers. It was rescued from the world of "out-of-print" books in 1975 and bears the ISBN 0-8076-0779-7. That 1975 edition has a 'new' introduction by Alice Kessler Harris. A bit of AKH's intro: "In her life and in this book, Yesierska questioned the limited roles offered to women by traditional families. She rejected the constraints that community pressure imposed on her freedom. She presented the possibility of men and women who could acknowledge each other's legitimate needs. Bread Givers makes no judgments of people who choose other paths. But freedom is at the pivot of this book as it was the driving force of Yezierska's life. Half a century after she wrote, the power and intensity of her message remain intact." Yezierska published six books between 1920 and 1932. Bread Givers was originally published by Doubleday in 1925. Mazel tov, Carol.

Our May selection, Death Comes for the Archbishop, was such a pleasurable experience that I determined to read more books like it----about gentle, good people living lives of helpfulness, sympathy, good will, and neighborliness to those around them. I figured such books, like Cather's tale of Fathers LaTour and Vaillant, would be a good antidote to the coarseness and hostility and self-centeredness that abound these days. I'm now reading and relishing The Country of the Pointed Firs, by Sarah Orne Jewett. I'd very much like to hear recommendations, from any of you who have feelings similar to mine, of titles of more such volumes.

Mizzou wrote: "Our May selection, Death Comes for the Archbishop, was such a pleasurable experience that I determined to read more books like it----about gentle, good people living lives of helpfulness, sympathy,..."

This is a tall order since good will and neighborliness don't abound in most stories. The only books that come immediately to mind are So Big and Crossing to Safety. They aren't on par with the good deeds of Fathers Latour and Vaillant, but they are not filled with bad people either and are well written. Of course, if you don't mind contemporary books, you can try the Mitford series by Jan Karon if you haven't already.

Flipping through what I have read, the only book that may come close to what you are looking for would be Jimmy Stewart: Bomber Pilot. When I read it, it was more like the army buddies remember Jimmy than an actual biography. But it did show how selfless and dedicated to those, Jimmy Stewart was.

When I read the news from the Middle East, at present, I sometimes recall with a pang a book I read some years back, set in that part of the world. It was about a village in what is now western Turkey and the dwellers therein who shared a peaceful community life despite variances of religious faith, ethnicity, language, national origin and customs. That book was Birds Without Wings, by Louis de Bernieres, and I recommend it to anyone who wishes to believe that toleration of differences is still possible.

Mizzou, thank you for the recommendation. It would be nice to read occasionally about people getting along or overcoming their differences.

Would it be possible for us to set up a thread for those who are interested in Buddy Reads? I enjoy the freedom I have in certain other groups to suggest a read in a thread and if at least one other person is interested, we can set up a discussion thread at the agreed time regardless of other group discussions. It could lead to greater participation and visibility for our group, too, which sometimes falls off of even my radar if there hasn't been a comment in several days.

I'm interested in reading The Enchanted April by Elizabeth von Arnim some time in the next several months, if anyone wants to join me. I'm more likely to follow through and would enjoy reading it as a buddy read with 1 or more readers in this group.

Carol wrote: "Would it be possible for us to set up a thread for those who are interested in Buddy Reads? I enjoy the freedom I have in certain other groups to suggest a read in a thread and if at least one othe..."

I sent a message to the other moderators to make sure it is alright.

I like the idea of this new thread, and I've been wanting to read The Enchanted April too. I'd be interested in a buddy read--sounds like a good one to chat about.

Kathleen wrote: "I like the idea of this new thread, and I've been wanting to read The Enchanted April too. I'd be interested in a buddy read--sounds like a good one to chat about."

Wonderful.

I can set up a discussion thread for Buddy Reads. Please let one of the moderators know when you will want to read the book, so we can set up the book thread.

I'm brand new so please forgive me if these have been done but I thought I'd list some suggestions for future themes:

- romance
- 1930's
- Indian author
- Japanese author
- Set in Ireland
- Set in Scotland
- coming-of-age
- African American
- LGBT
- education
- 19th century
- set in New England
- 1910's
- lesser-known book by a famous author
- witchcraft/supernatural/paranormal
- set in the Caribbean
- banned books
- poetry
- gothic
- 18th century
- feminism
- nonfiction
- set in Italy
- fantasy/sci-fi
- American authors

Thanks. We have used many of these. However, some themes, such as LGBT and paranormal were not themes in 50 or more years ago.

☯Emily wrote: "Thanks. We have used many of these. However, some themes, such as LGBT and paranormal were not themes in 50 or more years ago."

I'm sorry but that's incorrect. I know of a couple books about LGBT relationships written by women more than 50 years ago. Not to mention, some of the authors were LGBT themselves.

A number of pulp novels with lgbt characters were popular throughout the 50s, 60s, and 70s. You also have authors such as Virginia Woolf, Radclyffe Hall, Patricia Highsmith, E.M Forester... just to name a few. Here are a few links with more information on the topic: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-a...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/trebor...

and a google search on the topic of classic LGBT literature will yield even more results. But LGBT themes most certainly were present 50 years ago and even long prior to 50 years ago.

Jamie wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Thanks. We have used many of these. However, some themes, such as LGBT and paranormal were not themes in 50 or more years ago."

I'm sorry but that's incorrect. I know of a couple bo..."

Would you mind posting the titles please? All the ones I'm aware of were written by men so I find that intriguing. :)

The Well of Loneliness
Orlando
The Price of Salt
Rubyfruit Jungle (although, this one didn't come out until 1973 so just misses the 50+ year mark)
Mrs. Dalloway
Odd Girl Out (there's actually a number of books by Ann Bannon. She was well known for her pulp books that were published in the 50s and 60s and frequently had lesbian characters)
These are just a few examples. When it comes down to it though, LGBTQA+ is not a new thing. LGBTQA+ people have been around since mankind has existed and if you look you'll find that, as such, those themes aren't new in literature either. They might be a bit harder to find because far too many people still turn their noses up to us and like to try and bury works by and about us to try and make it seem like our existence is a recent thing.
If I think of any more I'd be more than happy to share them :)

Caitlin wrote: "The Well of Loneliness
Orlando
The Price of Salt
Rubyfruit Jungle (although, this one didn't come out until 1973 so just misses the 50+ year ma..."

Thanks for the list!

Just a suggestion: I think the key is in how we frame the theme. If we include as one theme: (a) books that have an LGBTQ theme, or (b) known LGBTQ authors, and, (c) permit nonfiction, we could have a strong slew of choices as well as good participation.

I'm going to add to our theme proposals, books that take place in the Dutch East Indies, Indonesia, or the Netherlands.

One of the things I've been thinking is that we could increase engagement with both the nominations and our monthly reads by combining and expanding the scope of some of these themes to incorporate multiple angles on a theme, area of the world, or culture.

Even "set in New England" could be combined with, "set in the Maritime provinces of Canada" and we'd have a broader and deeper well to examine.

Note that Mrs. Dalloway was read in this group in November 2017. This is the link to the discussion if anyone wants to further discuss the book: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Carol wrote: "Just a suggestion: I think the key is in how we frame the theme. If we include as one theme: (a) books that have an LGBTQ theme, or (b) known LGBTQ authors, and, (c) permit nonfiction, we could hav..."

I like this idea, thanks Carol!

Anastasia wrote: "Carol wrote: "Just a suggestion: I think the key is in how we frame the theme. If we include as one theme: (a) books that have an LGBTQ theme, or (b) known LGBTQ authors, and, (c) permit nonfiction..."

You're very welcome.

btw, for anyone interested in another classic LGBT novel not mentioned in this thread, Thérèse et Isabelle by Violette Leduc is on sale today only (ebook) for $1.99.

Here's its story, excerpted from a friend's GR review:

In the mid-1950s, Violette Leduc wrote a novel called Ravages. The first hundred and fifty pages comprised a semi-autobiographical depiction of two schoolgirls in a torrid lesbian relationship, which Leduc said she hoped would be ‘no more shocking than Mme Bloom’. Yes they said Yes it is more shocking yes. Her publishers refused to print it, and the novel appeared without its opening section in 1955 (and did very well). Ten years later, a different publisher agreed to print the excised material as a stand-alone novella, although they still insisted on certain cuts for legality: this was the original 1966 form of Thérèse et Isabelle, the fully uncensored version of which did not appear in French until the year 2000, nearly thirty years after its author had died.

and a review by the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

Francis has forwarded some information about a talk on Elizabeth Gaskell. We have read several of her books over the years.

https://elizabethgaskellhouse.co.uk/e...

https://earlybirdbooks.com/barbara-py...

An article on Barbara Pym

Hi,

I very much enjoyed the short story reads & thought they & the Pride & Prejudice discussion really revitalised this group.

I'd like to suggest this (the short story reads) becomes an annual thing!

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Hi,

I very much enjoyed the short story reads & thought they & the Pride & Prejudice discussion really revitalised this group.

I'd like to suggest this becomes an annual thing!"

Short Story is easy enough to have as annual month.

I am apprehensive about doing Pride & Prejudice every year just because I don't want people to feel like we are always discussing the same thing every time. Would something like Revisit Jane Austen be alright? That way all Jane Austen books would be options for voting on.

Should Revisit an author be expanded to more? It looks like this group always has lively discussion for Barbara Pym, Elizabeth Taylor and Rummer Godden.

Charlene wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Hi,

I very much enjoyed the short story reads & thought they & the Pride & Prejudice discussion really revitalised this group.

I'd like to suggest this becomes an a..."

Oh sorry if I wasn't clear. I just meant the P&P discussion also revitalised the group - I didn't mean to read it every year.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Charlene wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Hi,

I very much enjoyed the short story reads & thought they & the Pride & Prejudice discussion really revitalised this group.

I'd like to suggest ..."

Ok. So, something more like we revisit a favorite classic author.

Charlene wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Charlene wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Hi,

I very much enjoyed the short story reads & thought they & the Pride & Prejudice discussion really revitalised th..."

Yes, I do have an author in mind.

& sometime (maybe next year) I would like to read Persuasion with this group. I have friends who have it as their favourite Austen. I would like to try again & see what I am missing.

I am going to be having a discussion on Persuasion in December on Austen's 250th birthday at the school where I teach. It is my favorite Austen book.

I love Persuasion.

where is your school?

☯Emily wrote: "I am going to be having a discussion on Persuasion in December on Austen's 250th birthday at the school where I teach. It is my favorite Austen book."

Count me in!

I teach at Bergen Community College in Paramus, NJ.

☯Emily wrote: "I teach at Bergen Community College in Paramus, NJ."

Oh sorry! I thought you meant here.