Flights of Fantasy discussion

The June 2019 Death Magic book of the month is the Fantasy Scythe by Neal Shusterman.

This book has been in print since November 2016 so there should be many different editions available. Please check your local library and/or favorite book retailer.

This book is the first entry in a trilogy that has not completed.

Please remember to use spoiler tags < spoiler > < /spoiler > when discussing.

How about:
Those Who Walk in Darkness

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "How about:
Those Who Walk in Darkness"

The nomination and vote already took place and this is the thread for the winning book - Scythe

Oops.... sorry.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Oops.... sorry."

No problem. Just letting you know. :)

I put in for this one at the library and it has 13 holds ahead of mine. Probably not going to happen but I remain optimistic.

I need to get started on this...but I doubt I'll finish it as I'm a wuss and it is a bit grim.

Just requested from the library. :)

I have a copy from the library, but I need to finish at least 3 books ahead of it because of due dates.

On hold at the library but some inconsiderate person has it out overdue since April 14. Grrr.

Marc wrote: "On hold at the library but some inconsiderate person has it out overdue since April 14. Grrr."

UGH... I hate that. >_<

Well it just came through at the library so I’m guessing system error. Win for Felina.

Unless I read it as 12 holds but really it was 12 copies available.

Felina wrote: "Well it just came through at the library so I’m guessing system error. Win for Felina."

Woot! for getting it early, though.

I started today, audiobook.

Liking it through two chapters.

I picked it up from the library yesterday and I'll be starting as soon as I finish Shrill.

Becky wrote: "I picked it up from the library yesterday and I'll be starting as soon as I finish Shrill."

Ok, So I see you're doing the "One Word Title Beginning With S" challenge.

LOL Pretty much!

OK I'm starting this now. :D

So I started this last night, and I didn't make it far at all (12 pages), but already I'm getting the impression that there's no actual magic associated with the death in this book.

There seems to be magic, or technology, or something regarding the Scythes themselves (essentially immortality?) but their kill methods have nothing to do with it. The first kill (or "glean") we know of used a regular knife.

Soo... OK.

Also, not sure if I really like the style of the writing so far. It seems weirdly formal/archaic at times, but maybe I'll get used to it, or it will smooth out. I'm literally one chapter in. LOL

Anyone making progress on this or is it just me so far?
I'm up to chapter 13 around page 125.

I picked it up on ebook and I plan to start in the next day or two. The premise sounds promising.

Hi! I’m new to this group and I’m up to chapter 18. The writing style also snagged my attention, although I interpreted its starkness as juvenile (probably because of the age of the characters), rather than archaic. There’s definitely something there to talk about.

*shame face*

I havne't started yet...

Don’t get me wrong though, I am still finding plenty of stuff to enjoy. You may even like the style!

Welcome Ruby! Glad to have you. :)

MrsJoseph wrote: "*shame face*

I havne't started yet..."


I still probably won't get to it for another week or two. *shrugs*

I'll be long done by then... it's a quick read. I knocked out almost 50% yesterday.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "*shame face*

I havne't started yet..."


I still probably won't get to it for another week or two. *shrugs*"


Makes me feel MUCH better, lol.

Slackers. :P

I'll be honest. I completely spaced and didn't realize it was time for a new monthly read.

I'll get to this tonight or tomorrow.

I've been taking a lot of notes as I went along on my phone... So here are some of my thoughts... All spoiler-marked and paged (from the 435 page hardcover from my library.)

Page 124: (view spoiler)[ By this point, we've learned that this society has "conquered death" and that nobody has to die unless a Scythe "gleans" them. If you die accidentally, or even intentionally, you'll go to a revival center, and are revived, good as new. If you get old, you can "turn the corner" and be regenerated to a younger body again, apparently at the cellular level. You can do either of these things as many times as you can afford/choose to. Also, there are nanites in our bodies that ease pain, alter our metabolism, etc to keep us all at peak performance.

In one of the journal entries, the Scythe talks about population growth still being astronomical and the death rate of 5 million/year isn't enough to keep up, so more Scythes will be needed to match.

So, my thought is... WHY? Why go to such lengths to ensure longevity to the point of immortality, only to deputize a portion of society to be state-sanctioned murderers?

There is a definite issue of resource limitation, so society can't go on living and breeding with nobody dying... but why not use the nanites to gently end things after a certain point - say 200 years, or 4 corner turns, or whatever? Or just turn the nanites off and everyone gets a DNR after a certain point. Why resort to elevating hit-men (and women) to do the job?

OR, why not institute reproduction limitations? Nanites could easily function as hormonal birth control to prevent reproduction. One man was mentioned to have TTC (turned the corner) multiple times, had been married multiple times, and had 20 children. WHY? If resources are limited to the point that people need to be murdered for population control, why would NOT REPRODUCING not be the better option?

OF course, then there's no plot, and therefore no story. LOL (hide spoiler)]

Page 128: (view spoiler)[ Apparently each Scythe takes a historical person's name as their Scythe name when they are entered into the Scythedom. In the book it's called a Patron Historic: "the luminary from history whom they would name themselves after."

It seems that most of them that we've met thus far are scientists or philosophers or mathematicians of some sort. Faraday, Curie, Volta, Goddard, Xenocrates, Schrodinger, Goodall, and Colbert (who, as much as I would love to think is based on Stephen, is more likely based on Edwin H Colbert, the Paleontologist.) But there doesn't seem to be any point to this at all. Like, I would think that if someone was to choose a famous thinker as their namesake, then that would be for a reason, like they were inspired by them or identified with them, etc.

Scythe Faraday is named after physicist and chemist Michael Faraday, who studied electromagnetism, is famous for the Faraday Cage, etc etc. But thus far, nothing at all that Scythe Faraday has done or said has seemed to be influenced by his namesake. He doesn't favor electrocution or chemical means of death over any other, for instance. In fact, he is described as VERY methodical in his selection methods to ensure that he's not biased at all in who he gleans, and often uses statistical analysis to determine who and how to glean. So, I wonder why choose that naming convention. Why not take the name of a famous statistician instead? (hide spoiler)]

Page 203: (view spoiler)[ So the two main teens, Rowan and Citra, are apprenticed to Scythe Faraday, and at one of the big Scythe meetings, they're called out for it (because people usually only take one at a time, not two) , and it's determined that only one of them will be selected into the Scythedom, and whoever is chosen will have to glean the other as their first act. Because drama.

But then, they are reassigned as single apprentices to two other Scythes... and the special rule that they were given while both being apprenticed to one person (who was only going to select one of them anyway), is still in place. And my question is... why would this still be in place?
1) We know that population is growing too fast for resources, and so more scythes are needed.
2) Scythes are allowed to have apprentices (and there was no rule against having two, until it was made an issue)
3) One Scythe was requesting to take both apprentices at the time of reassignment (because apparently it's only a problem if it was someone else?)
4) Now each apprentice is the ONLY apprentice to their Scythe... soooo... why would they still have to Battle Royale this?

Because drama. Makes no sense. Why not take both, if more Scythes are needed? Why go through all the trouble of training and going through a yearlong apprentice/mentor situation, just to throw one of the trainees that you supposedly desperately need away?

Lame. (hide spoiler)]

Ala wrote: "I'll be honest. I completely spaced and didn't realize it was time for a new monthly read.

I'll get to this tonight or tomorrow."

You'll still finish before me. O_O

Chapters 1-2 (view spoiler)[So...why are Scythes even a thing? No idea yet. Unless the whole "We became perfect" is the reasoning. Which would be stupid. (hide spoiler)]

Ala wrote: "Chapters 1-2 [spoilers removed]"

Right. I question the same thing.

I enjoyed reading your notes, Becky. I'm going to expand on the same thoughts, because I share many of them.

Page 184: (view spoiler)[ I was also annoyed each time I thought of an alternative to the scythes (of which there are many). Scythe Faraday's statistical analysis is especially galling, because surely they could find someone who actually died of the specific cause, then not resurrect them, rather than murder someone who's statistically similar. This would also solve the "problem" of people not having fear, because any death could be their last.

Even if the idea is that the scythes must actively kill to appreciate the weight of the choice, it still makes no sense that there isn't a strict list of relatively painless methods. This society honestly deserves Goddard lol (hide spoiler)]

Page 128: (view spoiler)[ I wonder why no one has taken a name we don't recognize. Surely so many advancements in society came with a plethora of worthy scientists, not all of whom would still be alive. Perhaps this will come up later in the book.
(hide spoiler)]

Page 203: (view spoiler)[ The Battle Royal situation was initially set up as a push by Goddard against Faraday, so if Faraday is truly believed to be dead, why would Goddard care anymore? Perhaps things will become more clear, but right now I'm rolling my eyes. Hard.
I also think the fact that we don't trust the author to have a bigger plan is telling in a larger sense.
(hide spoiler)]

I try to always give credit for things that work for me as well; otherwise I tend to spiral into quibbles. In this case, (view spoiler)[I really appreciate the air of mystery around Thunderhead on the edges of the narrative. It nicely mirrors the enforced distance that scythes experience. (hide spoiler)]

Ruby, those are great points.

Regarding your 184 spoiler: (view spoiler)[Yep, I think that would be a great alternative, AND it would still have the added benefit of needing to be managed by Scythes, because the Thunderhead's goal is to maintain and sustain life. So Scythes could essentially "tag" recently deceased people for permanent death instead of them being revived. That would still carry the weight of ending a life for good, but not the action of being the cause of it.

Of course, the issue there is that Goddard enjoys killing and really enjoys the power of it, so I don't think he would find that satisfying. (hide spoiler)]

Re your 203: (view spoiler)[Excellent point. What would the gain be for Goddard to continue the Battle Royale between Citra and Rowan at this point - other than his sadistic enjoyment of killing and his desire to "win". I really hope that there's something more than that. (hide spoiler)]

Regarding your positive - I agree with you. I really like that aspect as well.

Page 286: (view spoiler)[Was that just a Hitler reference? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3-8 (view spoiler)[I don't understand this world.

You've got an all knowing AI that now runs everything. It's all perfect. No hunger. No wars. Aging is a choice. Death is an inconvenience.

After achieving this paradise, you decide to create a separate group of people whose sole purpose is to kill other people. And then you make them above the law.

Why? If it's a problem of resource scarcity, why let these motherfuckers live forever in the first place? Why let them pop out a bunch of kids while they're living these immortal lives at all?

Wouldn't it be simpler to just have the all knowing AI put a limit on kids? Or life length? Or both?

And why can't their all knowing AI figure out space travel to give humanity more room to grow and more resources to obtain?

Why is the answer to the problem of resource scarcity to create a league of outcast killers? Oh no, we can let the AI do literally everything else for us but let it decide when/who to kill is a step too far! The fuck?

Hell, the AI could at least give them a means of dispatching people quickly and humanely. Shit, just give scythes a button that causes a persons nanites to instakill them. No mess, no last moments sobbing and crying. Just click and gone.

I just... I don't get it. (hide spoiler)]

I dunno what page numbers correspond to what chapters so I'll wait to respond to yalls post until I'm done.

Finished through Chapter 4, so can't click a whole lot.

I like the narration, the tone really comes out in it. Pretty enjoyable and all.

Yes, that's not much but when I read with speedreaders I do what I can. At least my little comments should keep me from getting gleaned...

Ala, click my 124 spoiler. :)

Chris wrote: "Finished through Chapter 4, so can't click a whole lot.

I like the narration, the tone really comes out in it. Pretty enjoyable and all.

Yes, that's not much but when I read with speedreaders I d..."

LOL Chris...

Spoiler through chapter 19: (view spoiler)[ I’m confused by the separation of Scythe and State. Citra thinks Thunderhead has evidence of a violation of Scythe Commandment 7: “Thou shalt kill no scythe beyond thyself.” If Thunderhead doesn’t police even these laws of the Scythe, then who does? Surely some system of oversight was set in place, but I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t utilize the all-seeing eye. Unless Citra just hasn’t thought through the implications of her suspicion? Strange.
The only other possibility I can think of is that Thunderhead’s “solution” to Scythe corruption, given its limited reach, is to let them kill themselves off. *shrug* (hide spoiler)]

Chris wrote: "Finished through Chapter 4, so can't click a whole lot.

I like the narration, the tone really comes out in it. Pretty enjoyable and all.

Yes, that's not much but when I read with speedreaders I d..."


EXACTLY, Chris! Exactly this. They come in here, speedreading all over the place. :-P

Ruby wrote: "Spoiler through chapter 19:"

(view spoiler)[ Yeah, I don't really get that bit either. It seems to me that the High Blade is supposed to be the enforcement of the laws, but it seems to me that he's just as corrupt as Goddard. (hide spoiler)]

Becky wrote: "Ala, click my 124 spoiler. :)"

I should've just put "what becks probably said" :P

Through Chapter 22 (a little over 50% total) (view spoiler)[Man. I was hoping the High Blade would be some badass dude in a black robe with some techno-scythe or something. But it's just some fat dude who I imagine looks like Mace Tyrell from GoT. Disappointing.

Seeing the conclave just be a place of politicking and assholery was expected, but also disappointing.

I really hope that there's an officer or someone in the Scythe hierarchy who actually follows up on Scythe suicides. Just to make sure the Scythe wasn't actually killed by an aggrieved family member of someone they'd gleaned. And that said officer actively covered up Faradays murder. Because if no one thought about checking before Citra had her epiphany, I'll be so annoyed.

Goddard is boring. Dude just needs a mustache to twirl and a cat to pet. Meh. Curie isn't bad though.


Also, can I just say that the name Thunderhead is silly? I get the obvious "Cloud" to "Thunderhead" naming scheme, but it just seems goofy to me. We reach the point of singularity and that's the best name we could come up with? C'mon, son... (hide spoiler)]

Overall, so far this book is at 3 out of 5 stars. Readable, decent, but nothing special.

LOL Ala, I agree with everything you said.

Oh hey, I can reply to yalls spoilers now.

I agree with everything you both said.

Becky wrote: "LOL Ala, I agree with everything you said."

God damnit, stop posting what I'm gonna post before I even think about posting it

Well I agree with your agreement. Thank you for being so agreeable. :D