Women's Classic Literature Enthusiasts discussion

Discuss the first week's read here!

Questions to discuss:

What are your initial impressions of the Pontelliers' relationship?

What are your thoughts on Robert's conduct towards Edna?

I'm three chapters in. I keep saying Montpellier and not Pontellier in my head.

There's an incredible detachment in the description of the characters, the author describes them in this way through each other's eyes. It gives their relationship a very distant, perfunctory feel. Mr P has an idea of how a wife should be and feels that Mrs P does not meet this expectation. I'm wondering about the circumstances of their meeting and subsequent marriage.

Anastasia wrote: "Questions to discuss:

What are your initial impressions of the Pontelliers' relationship?

What are your thoughts on Robert's conduct towards Edna?"


I have completed the chapters for this section. My impression of the Pontellier's relationship is that Edna married her husband for the wrong reasons rather than from any affection for him. She seems to be sleepwalking through her marriage/family life. I hate to use 21st century jargon, but it seems to me that Edna is not really "present" or in the moment of her marriage and family life.

Mr. Pontellier seems to have "typical" expectations for a husband to have of his wife for that time period. However, Edna is not meeting them and seems despondent. I can't help but wonder if she would be more responsive to her husband and his children if she had married a man whom she loved.

I did not have any thoughts on Robert's conduct until Adele R. called attention to it. Initially, I thought that he was just a part of the social circle of the people who are on vacation at that location and was just being friendly in a general way.

I will also add, that for this time period, marriage was the best option for women. I can't help but see a juxtaposition between Edna and Adele R, who seems to embrace her role as a wife and mother and is all that a wife and mother is expected to be for the time.

On a side note, ever since reading A Brown Paper Bag and a Fine Tooth Comb I've assumed that when someone writes "Creole" they're talking about someone with darker skin. I was pretty sure that's not how Chopin used it so I had to google the definition of the word to realize that's not necessarily the case. Totally random bit of knowledge. xD

Lisa wrote: "I'm three chapters in. I keep saying Montpellier and not Pontellier in my head.

There's an incredible detachment in the description of the characters, the author describes them in this way throug..."

And there seems to be a lack of communication. He knows how a wife should act but the best he can do is prod her to do those things.

Andrea (Catsos Person) wrote: "I hate to use 21st century jargon, but it seems to me that Edna is not really "present" or in the moment of her marriage and family life."

It's almost as if she's dissociated.

I know I'm judging Robert by the standards of the 21st century but I feel that if a woman doesn't want to be touched by a man she shouldn't be. He should respect that. Robert doesn't, he pushes boundaries.

The tone of the book reminds me a lot of The Age of Innocence.

Carolien wrote: "The tone of the book reminds me a lot of The Age of Innocence."

Looks interesting, might have to add that one to my list :)

Maybe I was primed by the book's blurb; but I didn't like Robert from the beginning. He flirts with married women for fun- until now no one took him seriously before.

Andrea, I agree Edna married for the wrong reasons, it seems she was deserted by a previous love and Mr P was the necessary bandaid.

Her indifference to her children is chilling.

This passage caught my attention:

"An indescribable oppression, which seemed to generate in some unfamiliar part of her consciousness, filled her whole being with a vague anguish" (loc148)

That 'indescribable oppression' made me think of what Betty Frieden called "The problem that has no name" It is too early in my reading to say, but I wonder if Frieden was influenced by this book?

@Theresa

The possible connection between Kate Chopin and Betty Friedan is a very keen observation!

Theresa wrote: "This passage caught my attention:

"An indescribable oppression, which seemed to generate in some unfamiliar part of her consciousness, filled her whole being with a vague anguish" (loc148)

That '..."

I haven't read Friedan but she was writing around the time that people were starting to appreciate what Chopin did in "The Awakening", correct? So it definitely wouldn't surprise me.

around the late 50s early 60s. I think she focused more on consumerism and the housewife syndrome in the post WWII years in the US. I think maybe that feeling of malaise had reached epidemic proportions at that particular time and place in history. It was different in Europe.

Here is a bit of discussion about "the problem that has no name": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic...
I just recognized the sense of dissociation and the hard to identify feeling of oppression expressed by Chopin as being somewhat similar. If it is the same problem, I imagine that in Chopin's time it was much less common and harder to pinpoint (especially considering that consumerism wasn't much of a thing then as it was in the 50s).

Anyway, I've just started reading the book/story and that was just my first reaction, so I thought I'd throw that

Edna is awakening in a profound way. "Mrs Pontellier was beginning to realize her position in the universe as a human being".

Her life till now has brought her to this point. she has loved and lost, and now is married to a man she has nothing in common with. except for her children, and Lisa I agree that "her indifference to her children is chilling".

she has become disillusioned with her world, and feels apathetic to it.
as she comes onto Grand Isle, " she begins to loosen a little the mantle of reserve.".

she is desiring to become free of the constrictions her society has bound her with.
she had a bit of knowledge early on. "At a very early period she had apprehended instinctively the dual life - that outward existence that conforms, the inward life that questions.".
the inward will start to inform the outward, and shake up the status quo.

Theresa wrote: "around the late 50s early 60s. I think she focused more on consumerism and the housewife syndrome in the post WWII years in the US. I think maybe that feeling of malaise had reached epidemic prop..."

That certainly sounds like what we see Edna experiencing. She's dissociated and wants "something more" but she isn't sure what.

Good observation :)

General thank you:

I really appreciate this new info (new to me since I have not read Betty Friedan) about Betty Friedan's possible connection via her writing to Kate Chopin and the post WWII "housewife syndrome."

I find this discussion to be helpful because I was feeling annoyed with Edna in the next section of our reading and finding fault with her. I'm completing Anna Karenina with another group was feeling more sympathetic for Anna's situation (Tolstoy was no feminist or friend to women and their issues) than I am feeling for Edna and her situation.

If anyone thinks it strange to compare any aspect of these two books, I won't dispute this opinion. But I could not help myself bec the book Anna Karenina is still fresh in my mind as I complete it and this book as I am at a place fairly early in the book.

To say more here would "spoil" readers who are reading at their own pace rather than sticking to the reading schedule.

Theresa wrote: "I just recognized the sense of dissociation and the hard to identify feeling of oppression expressed by Chopin as being somewhat similar. If it is the same problem, I imagine that in Chopin's time it was much less common and harder to pinpoint (especially considering that consumerism wasn't much of a thing then as it was in the 50s). "

Thank you for posting this article. It will help my reading of this book to have more scope.

I'm not very far along in the book, and it was just a thought. Wouldn't want to influence anyone in the wrong direction if the book turns out to be not so much about the same themes.

Andrea (Catsos Person) wrote: "General thank you:

I really appreciate this new info (new to me since I have not read Betty Friedan) about Betty Friedan's possible connection via her writing to Kate Chopin and the post WWII "hou..."

Big difference between Edna and Anna: Edna is dissociated from her children, Anna suffers greatly being away from her son. I too am much more sympathetic to Anna's situation.

Maybe it's because Tolstoy has many more pages to make us feel sympathetic to Anna?

@Anastasia

Maybe you are right that Tolstoy had more pages to get the reader to like and sympathize with Anna.

And, yes Anna was a devoted and attentive mother to her son and was very hurt to lose him.

And maybe also because our first introduction to Anna is her helping others. Whereas with Edna I have yet to see her do something selfless.

Carolien wrote: "The tone of the book reminds me a lot of The Age of Innocence."

I really hope that you are mistaken. I do not really like the tone of this book and The Age of Innocence in a book that I would like to read.