Why Christianity? discussion

the Bible is filled with promises from God. Are some of them false (or faulty)?

"In Psalm 91 we can read: If you say, “The Lord is my refuge,”
and you make the Most High your dwelling, no harm will overtake you,
no disaster will come near your tent. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone...

I've learned recently that I have failed to read the Bible FULLY or DEEPLY over the last 40 years. I've ignored context, and authorship, and prophecy, and history and GOD'S PLAN, and JESUS!. I assumed the Bible was about ME! I probably still do this (just less, hopefully). Yet I meet Christians weekly who continue to misunderstand the Bible.

Now to study this properly, we would need to carefully read ALL of Psalm 91. And Psalm 90. (My Bible even says "A Prayer of Moses the man of God") It even says that Psalm 90 to 106 are collected as Book 4. this is valuable information. Like all serious students they need to continually recall

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT

so how specific are these promises of NO HARM? NO DISASTER? NO STRIKING FEET AGAINST ROCKS? Well, the Bible does give us numerous contexts for these claims. Here's the first:

Psalm 91:1
He who dwells in the shelter of the most high... He will cover you with his feathers and under his wings..."

Okay, so does God have feathers and wings and an actual Shelter location? I'm assuming NO. So now we need to read more carefully. Is this part PROMISE, part POETIC? I don't think the birds in my backyard are Deity --- so I'll read this poetically. So what exactly is this SHELTER OF THE MOST HIGH that I had better be dwelling in If I demand these promises? The Bible shows us that humanity keeps fleeing as quickly as they can from this shelter --- for our own lusts and desires and rebellious needs. Well, we left those promises behind...

But, are all the Bible promises for ALL THE CHRISTIANS who ever breathed? No. Many are historic and specific. And some are future and specific. These ones are part related to Moses and His struggles. But then there's serious theology attached to them as well for future relevance. Then there's that bit of poetry used to situate them. And there's CONDITIONS! Yes, we sin... God constantly warns us what happens when we sin. Often - the promises go out the window as WE march proudly away from the shelter of God. Then we blame GOD. The Bible is clear - we just don't read it carefully. Yep, some of those promises are WAR related and apply specifically to BATTLE. We can't use them at the Shopping Mall.

So, why doesn't God do what He promised at least for those who deeply believe in Him?" For instance:

John 16:23
In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

I always try to ask questions when I read the Bible. AS many as possible. Like, "what does it mean - IN THAT DAY? How exactly do we properly ask IN MY NAME?"
Are there answers to these questions? Probably. And here they might be:

John 16 tells us what IN THAT DAY is. Jesus told them in verse 16.
16“A little while, and you will see me no longer; and again a little while, and you will see me.”

So who Specifically was he talking to: The disciples. (verse 17) ...So some of his disciples said to one another,

So, this verse and promise has CONTEXT. And APPLICATION: Jesus death, burial, resurrection. There's LOTS of detail in John 16 about where Jesus was going with this discussion: It was about JESUS and His disciples! Not us 20 centuries later. You really can't pluck this verse out of it context and spread it around. It was FOR THE DISCIPLES and their ministry and worries.

Good Job - Rod. I take another tack. With Jesus, much of the Old Testament became obsolete. God didn't make false promises - they merely were superseded by the new reality of faith in the Son. Gentiles simply don't get the earthly protection of the early Jews, but they can earn their eternal reward.

I think the Old Testament Jews are don't yet. This information may apply to them again.

But we Christians can Glean from it. But those aren't necessarily our promises and covenants. But the Theology still applies *that is fully our God)

Rod, thank you so much for your thoughts. You give so much food for digestion. So, as far as I understood your point main is - we should always look at a context and analyze with whom Jesus or His disciples were speaking with when they promised something.

For me, it's kind of dangerous road. Because Jesus so often spoke with some particular group of people or a particular person (crowd on the mounting, the lady on the well, His disciples, etc.) Does this mean that there is nothing left for us? I don't think so. Cause if we look at the Bible from this perspective, it transforms the most readable book into collections of interesting stories with no practical application and promises. Main characters (Jesus and His disciples) often were addressing their messages to a particular group of people living at that ancient time, not us. I cannot believe that all of those instructions and promises were relevant only for those who lived in the past.

But lets me switch the direction of my monologue into a verse with the similar meaning of what we can read in John 16:23.
Look at 1 John 5:15 ( I believe that this book is for all Christians not just for some special groups or nations) - "And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him". Can you notice the phrase - "we know that we have the requests!" Does this sound like a promise?

Also look at 1 Peter 3:12 - "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil." Here we can see that God should be attentive to those who live upon His word. And see, these kinds of people are called RIGHTEOUS, which we consider as an indicator that not only Jesus can be called by that term...

Good thoughts Pavel, we can’t discard any verses of scripture.

Glad you mentioned that - indeed, no one person can ask enough questions. We all need to approach these issues from numerous perspectives.

I always start big with my assertions:
The bible IS the word of God.
The Holy Spirit wrote with and through men.
The Bible is God’s Word to HIS people.
The Bible IS translated.

Many people abuse those facts.

Kinda simple really. IF God lied, what does that say about holiness? It is against His nature.

Also, why would He? And, It's not like He's answerable to man. He stated it plainly in Numbers 23:19.

Folks - God didn't lie, but some things are no longer applicable, like "an eye for an eye, etc." Now, I'm that kinda guy only I'd take 2 eyes for one, but Jesus' "love thine enemies, etc." puts a damper on my bloodthirsty revenge schemes.

Pavel said,
" it's kind of dangerous road. Because Jesus so often spoke with some particular group of people or a particular person (crowd on the mounting, the lady on the well, His disciples, etc.) Does this mean that there is nothing left for us?"

Yep, we can't dismiss all scripture because it is historical or contextual. But we can read it deeply to see how specific it is. I know many charismatics that take the promises and gifts of the 1st century church... and drag them needfully into the 20 century. (while leaving out interesting bits of information and context).

Thankfully, I believe God is actually clear - we just need to read carefully. (just because there is a Canaanite genocide doesn't mean we can have an Australia or Africa genocide).

Pavel brought up 1st John 5:15

15And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

Who is this specifically too? 1st century Christians for certain. But it looks much deeper than that - all Christians after as well. The context seems to be about Christianity rather than a specific culture or time.

A good thing to study.

I believe EVERY verse is in the Bible for a reason. The Holy Spirit brought them and kept them for all time. For where we came from and where we are going. If you forget history - you are doomed to repeat it...

It is fascinating when Jesus specifically addresses the Disciples or Apostles... We may not be able to apply that directly to our lives. We can learn from it - but it may not be a law or promise.

Good point, Rod - unless one is gunning to be a modern day apostle!

Tyrone said: "Kinda simple really. If God lied, what does that say about holiness? It is against His nature." So, for those who believe it's easy and simple. A true believer never questions His holiness. But just for a second try to see this statement from the perspective of those who have doubts to believe. For them, His holiness is something they would like to test.

Tyrone continued: "Also, why would He? And, It's not like He's answerable to man. He stated it plainly in Numbers 23:19". In theory, everything sounds completely perfect! Back to the perspective of those who have lots of doubts about God and His nature. We had a situation. The crashing plane with many people on board. Some of them were praying at the time of the accident, begging God for forgiveness and were asking Him to save their life.
Finally, 41 people died. And not just died easily, they were suffering a lot cause of the fire (let's remember that there were children amongst those who died).

For those, who saw this situation and have struggles to believe it brought kind of evidence that God:

1. Lied about His promises. Even though the Bible full of statements that God is the truth and never lies, they see all those verses just a piece of theory. They have no problem to quote His words that He promised always be with believers and no evil ever come close to those who deeply believe ... But that case showed the opposite for them.

Of course, we can ask them what is the reason for God to lie? Their answer is simple - people often make false promises in order to have power over others (politicians as an example), so God probably is playing the same game.

2. He is not powerful enough. If He cannot save the lives of those who dedicated the whole life to Him, what is the reason to follow His rules? If He is not that powerful, why someone should serve and worship Him?

3. He is not love. Once again they are highly aware that the Bible so many times says that God is Love. But they cannot comprehend how God, Who should be full of love could let the innocent and small children suffered to death.

All of the above for many people is the practical indicator that something wrong with what the Bible contains. For them, the Bible is just a theoretical book but the example above is a pure practical case.
As I am the one, who also always looking for a practical component of any theory I can say that I feel their pain and struggle, but sometimes I find it so difficult to find the right words and right actions on how to help them...

Great points. I’m on vacation in Florida then Panama. I’ll comment soon

Pavel,

First, I sympathize with and for those who died in the plane crash. I imagine it is a terrible way to die and has undoubtedly shaken many people. What to say to those who may have questions about God because of this is difficult, especially in the immediate aftermath of this tragedy.

We can’t answer the question why someone dies when they do, or even how they die. That’s something I would never attempt to do. I can’t speak on the specific will of God for others. That falls under the right and providence of the Lord. In point of fact, God can call us all home whenever He wants, or immediately when we sin, but generally He doesn’t. But this I do believe … we cannot test God (Matthew 4:7) and then decide our allegiance, loyalty, or faith based on His response. That is not faith, which is a must. Our mission (in my humble opinion) should be to present God to the living and use His Word, the Bible, to demonstrate God’s truth and promises. History and fulfilled prophecy confirms it. Some will accept it; regrettably, others won’t. And it won’t matter what you say. You could be 100% right in everything you say, but some people still will not accept your words because perhaps the pain is too deep at present or they take offense that God would allow such a thing to happen.

People die in various ways; some quietly, others not so quietly; some seemingly unjustified, others judged as justified as viewed by man. My mother died at a very young age after an extended illness when I was in high school. Should I blame God or ask why He took her from her 6 children? She was a believer, yet she died. But so did Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Samuel, David, Daniel, and the prophets (and some of them brutally, as did the Apostles). So did Jesus Christ, who sacrificed His life as a ransom for mankind and in the worst way known to man at the time.

I hope this doesn’t sound unsympathetic, but physical death is inevitable. It is from this curse that God had planned mankind’s redemption and His way to reconcile man to Himself so that we may never die a spiritual death (which is more important). Why did God do that? Simple, He loves man … His creation … made in His likeness. John 3:16 is the staple verse in this matter. Nor does He get pleasure from death from the wicked (Ezekiel 18:23). (For the record, I’m not remotely saying or suggesting that those who died were wicked. My point is God is not happy even when those who are wicked die.) His redemptive program gives mankind a chance to live eternally with Him in fellowship; just like they did in the Garden of Eden before we messed up. Still, everybody dies; no exceptions because His warning of death to Adam went unheeded. However, to enjoy this blessing, man must recognize God and His Son in their lives while living. Even so, those who come to a saving knowledge of Christ will die. I admit, as I get older and older (I’m 65+), I think about it more and more, but I don’t fret over it because I understand what the Bible says about it. I am comforted to know that when that day comes, I will be with the Lord despite my many, many sins of the past and my sometime struggles of the present day … because I believe in Him and accept His will whether I agree with it or not, or understand all of His workings and will.

Faith in God has always been the basis of salvation (Ephesians 2:8). Abraham proved that, and God affirmed that (Genesis 15:6; Hebrews 11:8-9). Job’s faith kept him in the midst of his suffering. He clearly did not have a good time and really didn’t do anything wrong. God called him perfect and upright (Job 1:8), yet allowed Satan to test him. This tells us that we can and will go through times of trials, but must remain faithful. The Book of Ecclesiastes tells us that bad things will happen to the righteous and evil men will sometimes prosper. We don’t have the right to question God about why we go through trials and death. Without faith it is impossible to please him (Hebrews 11:6). Today, it is faith in the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ, and His promise of everlasting life; something that is so much better than this life on earth could ever offer (2 Corinthians 12:1-4).

Lastly, for someone to suggest that God lies because man lies, or God lies to gain power, or just to play games shows that they have absolutely no understanding or knowledge about God. If they believe God created all things, what power can exist that He doesn’t have? If they don’t believe God created all things, then that is a much bigger problem. I’m a firm believer that knowledge of the Bible answers all questions. The problem is not many people take the time to study it for knowledge, understanding and application.

Tyrone,

First off, let me apologizes for such a dreadful delay with my response. Although I read your comment once you posted it but I didn't say thanks because I didn't use the internet for some time.

Anyway, from the bottom of my heart, I'd like to say thank you for such a detailed explanation.

As you mentioned people in grief cannot agree with everything you said but for me personally, your explanation makes a perfect sense.

Your message highlights the need for careful reading and a deeper understanding of scripture. It's a reminder that the Bible offers profound wisdom, but it requires thoughtful exploration.

Your reflection on the promises in the Bible is thought-provoking. It's true that the Bible is a rich and complex text with various layers of meaning. Context is crucial when interpreting its promises.
The point you raise about understanding the poetic and symbolic aspects of scripture is important. Not everything should be taken literally, as you mentioned with the imagery of God having feathers and wings.
When you need God's love https://whenyouneedgod.com/ , it's indeed a journey of understanding and interpretation. The Bible's promises often come with conditions and specific contexts, which can vary from historic to future relevance.

God doesn't make false promises because He is a Lord of truth- He is not the one to deceive us, we as humans simply don't always understand His messages. There is also a second layer to many promises since Christ can cleanse us of our sin.