Obsessed with True Crime discussion

(If there is already a similar thread to this, please, delete this one, and point us in the correct direction. Thanks.)

Just curious as to what our thoughts would be on all the various murders we've read about. Obviously, we can't 'know' for a certainty if they did it, or not, but we can have a bit of TC fun. So, here goes with a few to start with. Add ones you may think of to this list.

Opinions as to 'who' you really think 'did it' are always welcome, too. :)

Yes or No?
Amanda Knox - did she kill Meredith Kercher?

O.J. Simpson - did he kill Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman?

Casey Anthony - did she kill Caylee Anthony?

Lindy Chamberlain - did she kill Azaria Chamberlain?

Lizzie Borden - did she kill Andrew and Abby Borden?

Kate or Gerry McCann - did they kill Madeleine McCann? (If she is dead)

John or Patsy Ramsey - did they kill JonBenét Ramsey?

Oh, this list could go on pretty much forever...

Amanda Knox -- I have no idea
O.J. definitely killed them both
Casey Anthony killed her daughter
Lindy Chamberlain did not kill her daughter
Lizzie Borden almost certainly killed Andrew and Abby
Madeleine McCann -- search me
Patsy Ramsey more than probably iced her daughter

Amanda Knox - not sure, leaning towards she was involved

O.J. Simpson - yes

Casey Anthony - yes

Lindy Chamberlain - no

Lizzie Borden - yes

Kate or Gerry McCann - not sure, but I would have never left my kids alone, as they did

John or Patsy Ramsey - not sure, leaning towards 'yes'

You can have a sixth sense, that someone commited a crime, but can you be a 100pc that they did it? am not so convinced, also how they did it is debatable. In the case of Lizzie Borden, she was an unfortunate who was dianosed with mental illness.

What mental illness?

I agree you can never be 100% sure of anything, even if you were right there when it happened.

I agree, Etain, which is why I said we can't 'know' for a certainty if they did it, or not. My post was merely to see if group members might like to discuss their opinions. In hindsight, I don't think this group is very 'talkative'. Ah, well.

I agree with you, too Fish ... even if we were right there when it happened.

There are almost too many cases there to really discuss them, all at once at least. And the layout of the discussions here makes it far more difficult to respond to a specific post than it would have been at Shelfari (sniffle).

But soft! is there one everybody wants to start with?

Does anyone on this forum think O.J. is innocent of killing Ron Goldman and Nicole, the mother of 2 of his children? If so I would love to hear why and discuss it. Obviously the jury thought so. I think the guy is guilty as sin.

Fishface wrote: "Does anyone on this forum think O.J. is innocent of killing Ron Goldman and Nicole, the mother of 2 of his children? If so I would love to hear why and discuss it. Obviously the jury thought so. I think the guy is guilty as sin."

Not me. I think he did it. Has anyone read any of the books? I know that Erin is very knowledgeable about this case.

Etain wrote: "You can have a sixth sense, that someone commited a crime, but can you be a 100pc that they did it? am not so convinced, also how they did it is debatable. In the case of Lizzie Borden, she was an ..."

Diane wrote: "I agree, Etain, which is why I said we can't 'know' for a certainty if they did it, or not. My post was merely to see if group members might like to discuss their opinions. In hindsight, I don't th..."

Hi, Etain,
This idea you brought up is at the top of the list of my objections to capitol punishment. I know, were I to be on the jury in a death penalty case I could never vote for conviction because I could never be sure my judgement was not faulty.

Thanks for your comments, all of what you said is very relevant. I would prefer in the case of convictions to rely on factual and scientific DNA rather than just hearsay,as we as human beings can hold long grudges and be prejudiced, in the case of juried trials many a wrong conviction, has been metted out and destroyed someone's life.

Also, in answer to Fishface, I can only go by what I have read here and on other's research, but, it seems that some of the officers in the case Were prejudiced against her, before the trial even started and stated that they didn't like her attitude, believing,her to be arrogant and egotistical.

Yes, mental illness was mentioned, as was religious fervor, will have to check the sources and get back to you, on that one.

Etain wrote: "Thanks for your comments, all of what you said is very relevant. I would prefer in the case of convictions to rely on factual and scientific DNA rather than just hearsay,as we as human beings can h..."

And let's not forget that even DNA can be wrong. We all remember the Jane Mixer case, right?

And, the number of cases in which DNA is even available is relatively low, as I understand.

Well, right. If you wait until DNA is available to declare the case solved it could be quite a long haul.

There was plenty of DNA evidence in the O.J. case and he still got off scot-free.

@ Fishface, yes, I take your point, circumstantial evidence, also cross contamination of DNA or lack of theroff. I may be wrong hear re the OJ Simpson case, but was one of the determining factors in the jurys verdict to do with racial prejudice, even though they say a jury is supposed to be impartial.

Etain,
I have come to realize in the years since the O. J. trial, that : yes racial prejudice was a factor in the jury deliberations, but also: the prosecution simply, and sadly, just did not meet the burden of proof required for a guilty verdict
PS In my world view, juries, being human, cannot be fully impartial.

But surely a racially prejudiced jury would be more likely to vote to convict? Unless you're saying they were prejudiced in OJ's favor.

Fishface wrote: "But surely a racially prejudiced jury would be more likely to vote to convict? Unless you're saying they were prejudiced in OJ's favor."

Yes, Fishface,
If racial prejudice was a factor, it would have been prejudice in O. J.'s favor.

I am far from an expert on any of these cases, but I will give it a shot.

Yes or No?
Amanda Knox - did she kill Meredith Kercher? I dont think so. I dont know what the motive would be.

O.J. Simpson - did he kill Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman? Yes. He definitely had motive (jealousy) and his actions before he was arrested do not seem like the actions of an innocent man.

Casey Anthony - did she kill Caylee Anthony? Definitely yes. Not reporting her daughter missing for a month after she disappeared and then saying she thought she was with a nanny that was never identified. My question would be why, if she didnt want to be saddled with a child, didnt she leave the child with her parents or a sitter, or if nothing else, give her up for adoption.

Lindy Chamberlain - did she kill Azaria Chamberlain? I am not familiar with this case.

Lizzie Borden - did she kill Andrew and Abby Borden? yes.

Kate or Gerry McCann - did they kill Madeleine McCann? (If she is dead) I am not familiar with this case, either.

John or Patsy Ramsey - did they kill JonBenét Ramsey? I am going to say no. I haven't read any books about the case, only what I saw on tv and I dont remember hearing about any motive.

Koren wrote: "Amanda Knox - did she kill Meredith Kercher? I dont think so. I dont know what the motive would be."

Maybe there wasn't a clear-cut motive ... just booze, drugs, and bad judgement. I just finished reading Darkness Descending: The Murder Of Meredith Kercher, and the blood evidence seems to lean towards her involvement. I know other books have been written, and when I read those, I may change my mind. ;)

@ Diane, sensationalism can help to sell books, as does the embellishment of factual information, as the old adage goes. Not, saying it is right or wrong.

Amanda Knox@Koren & Diane, the jury is still out on this case, certainly, the evidence is highly suspect and it is one of the best examples of a bungled police operation. It remains to be seen if a fully conclusive conviction will ever occur.

Etain wrote: "Amanda Knox@Koren & Diane, the jury is still out on this case, certainly, the evidence is highly suspect and it is one of the best examples of a bungled police operation. It remains to be seen if a..."

Are they even still working on that one?

Koren wrote: "I am far from an expert on any of these cases, but I will give it a shot.

O.J. Simpson - did he kill Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman? Yes. He definitely had motive (jealousy) and his actions before he was arrested do not seem like the actions of an innocent man. "

Or before he was arrested. Remember the tape of Nicole's 911 call saying he had told her he was going to kill her with a knife?

And let's not forget the crime scene evidence. Even if Mark Fuhrman was an even bigger jerk than he seems to be, I can't see him risking his entire career as a homicide detective by faking evidence when the whole world was watching. Not in the case of a man who awed him so much that in a previous DV call to the Simpson house, he didn't even recommend charges. Because it was his football hero OJ Simpson!!!

Fishface wrote: "Etain wrote: "Amanda Knox@Koren & Diane, the jury is still out on this case, certainly, the evidence is highly suspect and it is one of the best examples of a bungled police operation. It remains t..."

I thought she was exonerated and sent back to the U.S.

Etain wrote: "Amanda Knox@Koren & Diane, the jury is still out on this case, certainly, the evidence is highly suspect and it is one of the best examples of a bungled police operation. It remains t..."
Fishface wrote: "Are they even still working on that one?"

Amanda Knox was twice convicted and twice acquitted, so, I would assume the legal system is 'done' with her. Did anyone else see where she recently returned to Italy to participate in a conference about wrongful convictions in Modena? The family of Meredith Kercher did not approve.
Amanda Knox: Kercher family lawyer labels return to Italy 'inappropriate'

Etain wrote: "@ Diane, sensationalism can help to sell books, as does the embellishment of factual information, as the old adage goes. Not, saying it is right or wrong."

Unfortunately, too true, Etain.

Yes, but the speculation still goes on to this day and there have been many legal proceedures since then. Perhaps, the whole thing would have been forgotten about, if she hadn't been so high profile, in the media.

Poor Meredith has been utterly lost in the sauce!

Fishface wrote: "Poor Meredith has been utterly lost in the sauce!"

So true, Fish. I'm looking forward to reading the book her family wrote, Meredith: Our Daughter's Murder, and the Heartbreaking Quest for the Truth (when I get a copy!).

I read a similar account written by Meredith's family. Harrowing, to say the least, they are serving a life long sentance as are Amanda Knox's family.

I read that book. It was very moving but it had just about zero details on the facts of the case, so that's why I don't feel I have any real information on Knox's guilt or innocence.

Koren wrote: "I am far from an expert on any of these cases, but I will give it a shot.

Yes or No?
Amanda Knox - did she kill Meredith Kercher? I dont think so. I dont know what the motive would be.

O.J. Simps..."

Koren, Lindy Chamberlain claimed a dingo had taken her baby, Azaria, and was not believed until bloody baby clothes were found years later. She was originally convicted twice of killing the baby, then finally acquitted. I personally think it's very, very likely that a dingo did drag off the sleeping infant, who was only 2 months old.

Amanda - present and instigated
OJ - absolutely
Casey - yes
Lindy - no
Lizzie - yes
McCann - given sleep medication and she fell
Ramsey - Patsy accidentally

K.A. wrote: "Koren wrote: "I am far from an expert on any of these cases, but I will give it a shot.

Yes or No?
Amanda Knox - did she kill Meredith Kercher? I dont think so. I dont know what the motive would b..."

That's horrible.

Koren wrote: "That's horrible."

It is horrible, but suspicion fell on Lindy because she bore up so well under the situation. She did have 2 other devastated children to be strong for, she was used to being a minister's wife and being strong for everybody all the time on top of that, and she came across a lot stronger than her husband. They figured she must have killed Azaria even though there was no reason on this planet for her to do it.

Yes, she didn't 'act devastated enough' so she must have killed her infant, jeez. It makes me think of going to the emergency room after I broke a rib and being told by the ER doc that he didn't think I had broken anything because I 'wasn't acting like I was in enough pain'. Fortunately, there was an X-ray to prove him wrong in my case, but it got me thinking: what 'should' I have 'acted' like in order to get someone to take me seriously? Should I have wailed and screamed and clutched my side instead of being stoic? That would definitely have been acting; I'm not a screamer. So I always take it with a grain of salt when I hear that someone wasn't 'acting right' when responding to grief, pain, or trauma.

And if you try to holler with a broken rib, hey, you'll suddenly have a lot more to holler about anyway, am I right?

Hi! I’m new to the group and am intrigued by this question.
OJ is so guilty is ridiculous
Casey Anthony I think he dad did it and she helped cover it up
Lizzie yep guilty

But I just read the book about Adnan. And this may be unpopular, but I think he’s guilty because of one glaring fact regardless of what he says

BAM wrote: "But I just read the book about Adnan. And this may be unpopular, but I think he’s guilty because of one glaring fact regardless of what he says."

Which book did you read, BAM? This one, Adnan's Story: The Search for Truth and Justice After Serial, or this one, Adnan Syed: The Truth Behind The Serial Case and the Murder of Hae Min Lee?

Adnan's Story

I haven't read it so I would be purely guessing. What do you make of the West Memphis Three, BAM?

I do think the WM3 was totally blown way out of proportion. As has often been reported there has never actually been a documented and prosecuted true satanic worship sacrifice murder ever. It's a Bible Belt scare tactic and very narrow minded to brand those with a different outlook on life in a small town as demonic worshipers. Those boys were railroaded and it was most likely one of the little boys' fathers.

Oh, there have been documented human sacrifices to Satan. Heck, I just posted one of them today in the TC Anniversaries thread! I agree with you though that the 3 boys killed in Robin Hood Hills were nothing of the sort.

Just finished an Audible original Body of Proof. Took place in Scotland. Dude full of double speak sooo guilty

There are plenty of other very questionable cases. A few I've read about include Fall Guys: False Confessions and the Politics of Murder; The Central Park Five: A Chronicle of a City Wilding; Little Shoes: The Sensational Depression-Era Murders That Became My Family's Secret; and "She Must Have Known": The Trial Of Rosemary West spring to mind.

I can't believe it has taken me this long to find this group!!!!

I can see you're going to fit right in!!!

BAM wrote: "I can't believe it has taken me this long to find this group!!!!"

Welcome BAM!

BAM wrote: "Adnan's Story"

Ah, okay, thanks, BAM. That one seems to be much more popular than the other title.