Sci-Fi & Fantasy Girlz discussion

I'm splitting up the bookshelf based on subgenres so the books are easier to find. I wanted to know what kind of subgenres are you looking for among the fantasy works?

For example we have urban fantasy, high fantasy, etc.

What are some subgenres you'd like to see make it to our bookshelf?

I can think of:

Gothic
Fairy tale
Historical
Is steampunk considered sci-fi or fantasy?
Don't know where vampires and werewolf would fit, paranormal?

I guess one could have Steampunk sci-fi or fantasy (or a combo of both). If you are writing a Steampunk vampire/werewolf thing then fantasy (or paranormal?) but if its something line The Difference Engine that uses Babbage's steam computer as part of main plot then definitely sci-fi.

What qualifies as paranormal anyway? And is paranormal considered fantasy?

Urban fantasy
contemporary fantasy
dark fantasy (which bridges toward horror but is somehow different)

I always see the terms heroic fantasy, epic fantasy, and high fantasy used and shamefully I have no idea what any of those mean. They all seem to overlap as tags... Anyone have any ideas?

There's overlap.
I think epic fantasy has to do with the sprawl of the story - thousand page books, multivolume - and the stakes of the game. Save the world, restore the rightful heir to the throne...

High fantasy has more to do with the setting. Secondary world(not ours)? Different time period? Probably high fantasy.

Low fantasy/contemporary fantasy is the stuff that takes place in a slightly tweaked version of our world.

So epic fantasy and high fantasy have a lot of overlap.
Heroic fantasy sounds like another term for something similar - high stakes.
Swords & sorcery is yet another frequently overlapping term.

Hee - and this was on A Dribble of Ink this morning:



We're not arguing over anything here, but I still thought it was funny.

I'm asking primarily since I've always read more sci-fi than fantasy and now that I'm classifying fantasy books on the bookshelf and reading more of them, I realized that I'm actually confused about the subgenres.

Sarah, thank you so much for explaining it! And I had no idea than in fantasy circles its an overdone topic. :)

Steampunk is sometimes fantasy, sometimes not.

High fantasy and epic fantasy can be most neatly defined as "works like The Lord of the Rings".

"Low fantasy" means nothing. It has been defined in contrast to "high fantasy" so often and in so many different and contradictory ways that using it conveys nothing.

Urban fantasy originally was fantasy set in contemporary cities. Charles de Lint was a defining author. Nowadays it's drifting steadily toward "paranormal romance" -- or euphemism for that.

Perhaps we need a "contemporary fantasy" shelf for the books that don't fit into urban fantasy.

Sword and sorcery is basically works like Conan the Barbarian. Like epic and high fantasy, they take place in an alternate world perhaps thinly disguised as part of ours, but the hero tends to be acting on personal stakes (though they don't have to be bad, and he often does incidental heroic acts on the way), against more limited evils, and the stories tend more to be serial since on one hand the limited perils make it more plausible that there are a lot of such perils, and on the other, the hero usually loves adventure.

Fairy tale/myth/legend retellings can cross all of those.

I usually think of steampunk (and dieselpunk - think Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow) as SF, since they are essentially alternate history in which steam power (and an accompanying aesthetic) drove technological advance. There's also the whole "punk" side of it that gets left out sometimes: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/10/stea...

By this point, trying to withhold the steampunk title from such works as Castle Falkenstein: High Adventure in the Steam Age and Girl Genius, Vol. 1: Agatha Heterodyne and the Beetleburg Clank on the sophisticated -- and entirely correct as far as it goes -- argument that they are not "-punk" is a lost cause. Semantic drift won, despite the Foglios' attempt to introduce "gaslight romance."

Mary wrote: "By this point, trying to withhold the steampunk title from such works as Castle Falkenstein: High Adventure in the Steam Age and [book:Girl Genius, Vol. 1: Agatha Heterodyne and the ..."

True.

Sarah wrote: "I usually think of steampunk (and dieselpunk - think Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow) as SF, since they are essentially alternate history in which steam power (and an accompanying aesthetic) ..."

Unless they are Soulless type of "steampunk". Its a fantasy set in a slightly steampunkish universe without the punk. Hated it. But its still classified as steampunk for some reason.

If anyone finds I've mislabeled anything on the bookshelf or if it would be nice to have additional labels, let me know. I'd be happy to make any changes that make searching it easier.

Alicja wrote: "But its still classified as steampunk for some reason. "

Aesthetics. All those steamengines and gears.

There's a wikipedia category for "Fantasy genres" that might be a good source, though it does seem incomplete:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category...

Personally, I think "superhero fiction" would be it's own genre if for no other reason than the amount of that material, but I'm sure there are overlapping issues that could be argued....

Gary wrote: "There's a wikipedia category for "Fantasy genres" that might be a good source, though it does seem incomplete:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category...

Personally, I think "superhero ..."

Plus there are entire worlds of "science heroes" instead of superheroes, per Alan Moore.

Superheroes use their own tropes so much that I really think it's a different genre.

Mary wrote: "Alicja wrote: "But its still classified as steampunk for some reason. "

Aesthetics. All those steamengines and gears."

I don't remember there being much steam of gears in that one. Maybe a reference here or there but it mostly focused on Victorian clothes, vampires, werewolves, and supposed "science" that didn't make much sense.

We do have a superhero genre on our bookshelf, only one book though. Anyone have ideas about any others?

Alicja wrote: "We do have a superhero genre on our bookshelf, only one book though. Anyone have ideas about any others?"

The She-Hulk Diaries? :)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

Alicja wrote: "We do have a superhero genre on our bookshelf, only one book though. Anyone have ideas about any others?"

Soon I Will Be Invincible - cyborg woman as one protagonist, if I remember.
Anything by Gail Simone.

Sarah wrote: "Alicja wrote: "We do have a superhero genre on our bookshelf, only one book though. Anyone have ideas about any others?"

Soon I Will Be Invincible - cyborg woman as one protagonist,..."

This one is written by a boy. :P We're just bookshelfing sf/f written by women. But that does sound like an interesting story.

Alicja wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Alicja wrote: "We do have a superhero genre on our bookshelf, only one book though. Anyone have ideas about any others?"

Soon I Will Be Invincible - cyborg woman as on..."

I forgot where I was!
Interestingly, I can't think of any superhero novels written by women. Graphic novels and comics, yes. Now I'm curious. I know some writers of short fiction...looking around.

Oh, except I just made a ridiculous miss.
This group's own Brenda Clough wrote How Like a God.

I asked on Twitter and got the following -
The Girl Who Would Be King
After the Golden Age and others by Carrie Vaughn
The Extrahumans books by Susan Jane Bigelow
Playing for Keeps by Mur Lafferty
Trance by Kelly Meding
Velveteen vs. The Multiverse by Seanan McGuire
Ann Somerville?
The Masked Songbird by Emmie Mears

Surely ghost stories fall in the fantasy category. Jane Eyre has ghosts in it. However, outside of romance novels, I don't know of any really good ghost stories, other than WS's Hamlet. The Tale of Genji also has ghosts in it, great ghost scenes. Genji is in bed with a woman, cheating on his wife, and his wife is so angry her living ghost comes and haunts them while they are going at it. This scares the woman Genji is with so badly she dies. There seem to be more ghost stories in theater and film than in books. Am I wrong about that? Lots of short stories with ghosts, but not so many novels is my impression.