History in Vogue discussion

Jane Austen's last unfinished novel is coming to TV in 2020, Sanditon, written by Andrew Davies (again). Coming to ITV UK
https://youtu.be/Ghbi0SXU-FA

and PBS (US) in 2020
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/...

Interview quotes from Andrew Davies. None of what he says makes me thrilled to watch this.
(view spoiler)[
Davies had used up all his Austen material by halfway through the first episode, which he found briefly daunting, then a liberating wheeze. Entertainment was the aim. “We just sat around talking and thinking and saying, ‘Dare we do that? Yeah!’” he says, alluding to the furtive sex act the ingénue heroine Charlotte Heywood (Williams) stumbles upon in the first episode. It is a scene that — along with the bared buttocks of male swimmers and, elsewhere, overtones of incest — may have Austen purists reaching for the smelling salts. If Davies has been cavalier, even layering on a 21st-century sensibility, he is unrepentant. “What Austen did was set up a place and establish this wonderful group of characters very clearly, but she never really got the story going at all. (hide spoiler)]

If you want a look at the trailer: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt8685324/

Honestly, so far the best part I’ve seen is Theo James almost nude at the beach, and I’m not a huge TJ fan. It’s almost funny how Andrew “sex didn’t exist til I walked in” Davies acts like he’s so shocking, but won’t just go for it. Almost all of merchant ivory’s films had full frontal nudity, even back in the 80’s, especially Maurice, you get more than just the nudity in one scene. It’s why James Ivory was disappointed they chose to go so chaste with Call Me By Your Name, and only the one tasteful shot of Armie Hammer from the back. The “incest” thing is two characters that were in the original chapters that he chose to make step siblings.

So far the British reviews are pretty split, but this probably going to be a pass for me. I’m already not a big fan of Davies, I’m not sure I have the patience for his Austen fanfiction

I read some comments on the first episode and it sure doesn't sound like Jane Austen but perhaps an entertaining kind-of-sort-of period piece. I know I'll watch it when it airs here but when and how long it will take me to watch, I don't know. I'm still not done with Les Miserables.

Hard pass on Sanditon. I keep watching, hoping it will get better but sadly it's not.

Brave yourselves. Season 2 is coming to the U.S. Sunday March 20. Has anyone in the UK seen this season yet? I SUPPOSE I'll try to give it a try as an independent fantasyish Regency story. I see Miss Lambe in the promotional photos so that will be interesting.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/...

Charlotte's sister joins her in Sandition and there are some hunky new gentlemen and one rakish Edward Denham to stir up the romantic drama.

Charlotte's dress in the first image is very pretty but then she goes back to poor farmer's daughter in the second. Her father is a gentleman with a farm not a poor farmer. Why is her younger sister dressed better than she is? Miss Lambe's Spencer jacket (blue with yellow gown) is nice. The artist... umm ok...

Season 2

Entertaining nonsense. It's the 21st century version of Jane Austen with a strong feminist slant.

Spoilers for those of you who can't get the show.

(view spoiler)[Sydney died of Yellow Fever in Antigua while there to settle Miss Lambe's affairs. NOOOO!! Stupid Theo James! Um look how well that worked out for Dan Stevens. What's he doing these days?

The family is out of mourning after only 3 months. No sign of black gloves or anything. I know mourning wasn't so strict but three months is very soon to give up mourning a brother. They'd say they're mourning him in their hearts, which they are, including Charlotte.

The women still go around without bonnets, gloves and with their hair all windblown. The men go around half unshaven. Not even mutton chop whiskers- just in need of a shave.

The army has come to Sanditon and oh my the men in their scarlet regimentals and well, we've heard that story before haven't we? I don't know what the costume designer was thinking but I've seen P&P enough times to know the uniform looks off. The girls wander into the army encampment ALONE while the arrogant young Colonel is making his morning ablusions. They don't even have the decency to blush and turn away when he appears shirtless. The men introduce themselves so the ladies introduce themselves. Um no.

Etiquette gets tossed out the window again as Miss Lambe rejects suitor after suitor telling them what she thinks of them for being fortune hunters. Um no. Then she steals - borrows- a carriage and takes Charlotte's sister for a ride on the beach where they get into an accident.

Charlotte is still in love with Sidney and determined never to marry. She wants to be in charge of her own destiny.
Charlotte decides being a governess is preferable to marriage and spouts Mary Wolstonecraft inspired nonsense about women needing an education, Society is wrong, etc. etc. I happen to agree with all that but I know how society worked at that time and I don't see Jane Fairfax speaking her mind especially to a young widowed father. (Shades of Jane Eyre maybe?)

Charlotte's new charges are cousins- a young teen girl- the Regency version of a goth girl. No eyerolls yet but you know the type. Then there's her cousin who acts like a boy and is army mad. Charlotte rescued the younger child from the hooves of a horse while watching an army parade.

Poor Esther is very happy in her marriage but she lost their child at 5 1/2 months. She's come to Sanditon while Lord Babington is away to try to recover. The doctors told her it would be foolhardy and dangerous to try again. She's determined to prove them wrong and is consulting Dr. Fuchs, who Lady Denham thinks is a charlatan.

Edward returns claiming to have turned over a new leaf. He's in the army now and Lady D believes him. Esther is skeptical and it turns out she's right. He told his aunt he had no idea he would be posted to Sanditon but then we see him with the Colonel who remarks that Edward was right, this is a good place to stay and by the way, you lost anothet two guineas last night. Is that wise when you still haven't paid for your comission?

Charlotte's sister has come to stay in Sanditon determined to find a husband. She's young and silly and says whatever comes into her head. Looks like she has a romance with an army officer coming. (hide spoiler)]

Sanditon episode 2.
Not sure where they're going with this. Sometimes the history sounds realistic and other times it doesn't. My dad even asked some good questions.

More walking around with bonnets, visiting the army encampment- alone, bohemian artist running around half undressed shocking everyone and a plot ripped straight from The Sound of Music!

Plot summary for those who can't get the show
(view spoiler)[Miss Lambe is still telling off her suitors. She'd rather marry Arthur because he's not a fortune hunter. She wants to be in control of her own life. Mary Parker tries to warn her that "Society is not so kind as we would wish." (Translation: Even though you're an heiress, you're biracial and under 21 so cool it or you'll find yourself banished and alone.)

Charlotte's sister Alison is young, romantic and silly. She's fallen in "love" with an officer whose name she doesn't even know. She does end up learning his name, Capt. Carter. She loves the poet William Cowper and her officer says he does too but when asked, he can't name a single favorite poem! AH HA Willoughby! He even asks Capt. Fraser for help. Fraser is this season's Mr. Darcy. He's kind of aloof, has a scar on his face and doesn't act like he's romantic.

Arthur Parker has jumped on the Sanditon bandwagon and wants to build a theater. Tom, for once, is being cautious. He realized Sidney's wife now owns HALF of Sanditon and he wants to buy out her share. Tom, now on a first name basis with badboy officer Colonel Lennox and wants to build a permanent barracks.

Col. Lennox is after Charlotte who doesn't want anything to do with new suitors.

Charlotte, meanwhile, is off in her own version of The Sound of Music. She's trying to engage the girls in studying things of interest to them, like mycology for young Leo (Leonora, who wants to be a boy). Leo's cousin, Augusta Markham, is 18 and snarky as any goth teenager today. She's determined to push away this new governess while she's actually hurting from the loss of her parents and now uncertain future. She tricks Charlotte into playing her late aunt's spinet - in a remake of the ballroom scene from The Sound of Music- Lord Colbourne comes rushing in from his study, furious that someone unlocked his wife's spinet and dared play it! *gasp* In a move also ripped from the movie, Charlotte tells off Lord C. He, however, does not sack her. The housekeeper wagered a shilling that Charlotte would last more than a week and won her shilling from Lord C. Um servants wagering with their masters?!

The shocking and Byronic artist, Charles Lockhart, is interested in Georgiana. He wants to draw her but she wants nothing to do with him. He befriends Arthur who tries to manipulate his friends into close proximity to get to know one another.

Meanwhile, Esther, now Lady Babbington, is struggling with the heartbreak of a miscarriage and infertility. She's DETERMINED to be brave and try anything but others are seeing the cracks in her facade. After the vicar sticks his foot in his mouth, even his spinster sister realizes what's going on with Lady Babbington and offers up the name of a midwife who helps women who are in need of such help as she thinks Lady Babbington may be in need of. Esther actually appreciates the advice and goes and gets an herb that's supposed to help.

All of Sanditon is invited to a mess dinner. Apparently there are prearranged seats and Charlotte is seated next to the Vicar's spinster sister but Georgiana is seated next to the artist because Arthur switched the names. Sparks fly and not in a good way. It goes downhill from there as the artist makes a toast to Napoleon. Wasn't that illegal? All the officers do is shout to kick him out. Arthur insists it was a joke. Georgiana asks him if he did it for her because Napoleon abolished slavery. He said he did. Hmm...

Edward Denham insists he's turned over a new leaf. Esther is wary. She makes him dance with the spinster to see if he really has changed.

Finally, Clara shows up again, bedraggled, with nowhere else to turn. Lady Denham and Esther would turn her out but she announced she's with child and it's Edward's! GASP!
(hide spoiler)]

My dad asked if, since the officers come from good families, they're good catches and I said I know from Pride and Prejudice that Col. Fitzwilliam said as a younger son without prospects he needs to marry a wealthy woman. I'm guessing it's the same with many or all of these officers. We also know Jane Austen preferred the navy and that ARMY is code for badboy. We'll see.

This is a seriously strange Austen adaptation. So serious and not much satire. The women are missing bonnets half the time and run around with their hair loose. One more Sound of Music inspired scene- almost. My mom likes the "Mr. Rochester guy" (Mr. Colbourne). It's obvious who the bad guys are and Edward Denham is way too dastardly to be an Austen villiain.

Lady Denham hosts a garden party complete with modern day marcaon tower and giant tiered fondant-covered cake! The cake comes straight from Carlo's Bakery in New Jersey 21st century. Even my mom was like "WHAT?! They didn't have fondant back then!" A little research would show that sugar sculptures were popular and that would have served the same purpose. Lady Denham was purposefully being rude to Georgiana because she thinks Miss Lambe is a hypocrite for sponsoring a sugar boycott while also profitting from the slave labor used to plant and harvest said sugar. Point made, the party guests return their plates! GASP! Then of course they're seen in the background eating so I hope that cake was real and the actors and extras got to eat it! Then their clothes won't fit and they will have to squeeze into corsets in the completely false way Charlotte shows Eliza. Every single person I've heard who has worn Regency stays says they're actually quite comfortable!

The introduction of Charlotte's sister serves no purpose except to show that young and stupid ladies will believe anything. Does anyone actually think Captain Carter was old enough to have fought at Bidassoa in 1813? Why no. I don't. Apparently Alison, Charlotte and Georgiana did until they were set straight by Capt. Lennox. Now he's a nasty guy but I believe he revealed the truth innocently enough.

Edward Denham is a nastier villain than any Austen dreamed up. She wrote he was a "would-be seducer" who read Samuel Richardson- not an evil dastard determined to destroy all the women, especially his sister in his greed and selfishness.

Most of this season has been boring so far with nothing remotely Austen happening. We have Jane Eyre, The Sound of Music and modern race and gender storylines going on.

Wow, I don’t know if this was worse than I imagined, or... I haven’t even watched the first season because I just didn’t think I would be interested, but I’ve seen the uproar on twitter over a boycott for Theo James not coming back

How are you doing by the way? I know I kind of disappeared on everyone, but the last couple of years have been not great. And I’ve moved, and that’s temporary, it feels like a mess. But I was looking for something this morning and saw this, so I thought I would say hi. It might be nice to start using this group again— not for group reads or anything, I’m not in a place to handle that right now— but just for movies, or books, or just to chat about whatever. Maybe I should start a new drawing room thread, I think the old one got overlong

Hi back Marie!
I'm fine. Unemployed but fine.

Sanditon is... in the category of entertainment and not in the category of Austen or social satire or even romcom. It's just weird. Theo James was stupid. Look how well it worked out for Dan Stevens when he left Downton Abbey! They wrote out Sidney and now have 2 new suitors for Charlotte and 2 for her little sister and many for Miss Lambe.

It's sad because at least the Bridgertons is a fantasy and doesn't pretend to be reality whereas Sanditon claims to be based on Jane Austen's last unfinished novel but Andrew Davies ran out of material halfway through the first episode! It's not even based on one of the several continuations!

Do reopen the Drawing Room. Moving is such a pain. We moved twice in less than a year and I couldn't imagine moving AGAIN. Now after 4 years I feel more ready to move on but it would still make me cry to pack up everything again. You have my sympathies. Good luck with your next move.

I've been reading a lot since there's nothing else to do and watching a lot of streaming TV. We now have the PBS Passport app. I discovered Seaside Hotel which is interesting through Season 4. Season 5 was so boring and Season 6 skips ahead 10 years and without some of the major characters so I decided to end with Season 5. However, now I need something to watch so I may return to it anyway. I discovered some lovely Mary Berry shows on the PBS app. I had seen bits and pieces between YouTube and PBS but it was good to have the whole thing. Next I need to watch Ken Burns's new Ben Franklin documentary. In between I watch baking shows.

Ann wrote: "I just recently rejoined"

Thanks sweetie! I’m going to start a new thread, glad you’re back

QNPoohBear wrote: "Hi back Marie!..."

I’m sorry to hear about the unemployment, so many people struggling through it the last couple of years. I hope you find what you’re looking for soon.

I’m in Tennessee, just to tie up some things; will probably take until early next year, so at least I’ve got some time in between.

I haven’t watched Bridgerton either, but that makes sense. There’s less expectation of fans who are used to a certain style of storytelling when the books are only a few years old

Sandition ended with a very unAustenesque ending in Season 1 so I can see why fans wanted it back but without Sidney, that doesn't make sense. It's missing the social satire and biting wit of Jane Austen and missing the appealing characters we can all relate to. They ditched historical etiquette for the sake of drama and modern storylines. No one- not one woman, especially not a woman of color, would speak the way Miss Lambe does and Charlotte is way out of line too.

The writer says they're not going for an Austen continuation so I'm not sure what the point is. It gives me something to do with my parents when 90% of the time I avoid them so I put up with it.

I don't bother with the "New York Times bestelling" Regency romances. I KNOW Julia Quinn and the others know how to do research. I've seen some of their blogs. I don't understand why that research gets thrown out the window in favor of modern characters running around the 19th-century. There are some contemporary authors I enjoy. The best Regency romance authors are Regina Scott and Sarah M. Eden but neither write in the style of Austen. The only one who does and does it well, is Stephanie Barron who is nearly finished "editing" Jane Austen's "journals" in her Jane Austen mystery series. (Jane and the Year Without a Summer takes place in 1815. Jane has a year left to live *SOB*)

There are several continuations of Sanditon. None have wowed me but I haven't read Anna Austen LeFroy's version or one or two others. The screenwriters really should have picked up on the ironic tone of voice in Jane's fragment and gone with that instead of NASTY villains, Jane Eyre/Sound of Music inspired plotlines (as much as I LOVE that movie), modern voices and issues. Personally, I wouldn't have even attempted it. It's difficult to know what Jane had in mind.

I'm dreading two new versions of Persuasion coming this year. For the life of me, I can not envision Dakota Johnson as Anne Elliot in 1815. Enough Jane, Hollywood! Try someone else! Visit Chawton House and see what other women writers there are who wrote books that would make appealing movies.

Wait, there are TWO Persuasions coming out...

I’m far from a purist, I love film as art for the sake of art, and modern interpretation and pushing boundaries, but even I’m side eyeing the Dakota Johnson one

Andrew “sex didn’t exist til I walked in” Davies has gotten the chance to do the free reign fanfiction he’s always wanted. That man should have been stopped years ago

I don't mind Davies other Austen adaptations but Sandition is too much. Apparently people like this drivel. Ratings are very high for PBS and I bet there will be a season 4 after season 3 (barf).

Episosde 5
It's not very Austenesque. It's a real soap opera, according to my dad. Episode 5 is apalling.

(view spoiler)[I want Lord Babbington to come and shoot nasty Ned right through his non-existant heart. That would be bad for Esther to lose her husband but maybe they can go into exile on the Continent together away from her toxic family. I hoped Dr. Fuchs would have recognized signs of laundnum but hysteria? UGH! I feel soooo bad for Esther and even for Clara because she's in a tough spot. She can't afford to be selfless,

Colonel Lennox also needs to go. Tom needs to man up and grow a pair, basically what Lady Denham told him in Regency parlance. Arthur is my hero! Colonel Fraser is very sweet and I think silly Alison is beginning to realize that. I can't stand how Charlotte's sister AND her best friend still think she likes Col. Lennox even though Charlotte has given them NO indication she does. Even though it's obvious she's falling in love with her employer.

The waltzing scene was very well done. My dad remarked on that too. He said it's very romantic with them looking into each other's eyes.

HIS story is not a good one and I feel so bad for little Leo evesdropping on that conversation. I'm sure she was hoping to see her Papa kissing her governess but the other stuff was too much. Mr. Colbourne needs to stop running away and confront Col. Lennox.

Poor Georgiana is going to get her heart broken. That bohemian artist doesn't love HER, he loves his ART (and himself). (hide spoiler)]

This story is a far cry from Austen's social satire.

That being said, episode 6 the season finale has loaded and I REALLY want to watch it but I'll feel guilty if I watch it before my parents and my dad will be a little sad if I don't watch it with them. I'm hoping to watch Gilded Age instead with them so maybe he'll forgive me if I watch Sanditon early.

I think the breastfeeding scene with Clara was written by a man.

Wherever you fall on the Theo James discussion, get ready for the outrage to start again, he’s about to be in a different regency romance series 🙃

Yep, Mr Malcom’s List. It was a short, like 15 minute film produced by refinery29 a few years ago. Slightly more “traditional regency”, actual colorblind casting, I know Gemma Chan and Frieda Pinto were in it...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5WIcqyH...

Now they’re making a full length film— not series, I was mistaken. Gemma Chan had scheduling conflicts, but Frieda Pinto and Oliver Jackson Cohen are back, and Theo James and Zawe Ashton joined the cast

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...


I mean, in his defense, he did say he signed on for Sanditon as a limited series, it was never assumed it would continue, and he believed his character’s story was complete. But he also said he just liked the way the script ended, and those roles weren’t usually his thing...

Theo James protests too much methinks!

I agree with Ann about Lord B. That really doesn't make sense. If (view spoiler)[He keeps writing but doesn't hear back from Esther then why doesn't he conclude business with all due haste and come in search of his wife? Edward is nasty through and through. If Clara comes to her senses, what can she do? Her child is without a father, without a name. (hide spoiler)]

Maybe Clara can marry Arthur. She's too much for him to handle but I think he'd like being a doting Papa and Clara might be willing to settle for security and a family.

I dread what season 3 has in store yet really want to know.

I didn't enjoy reading Mr. Malcolm's List as much as I had hoped but I wish the film well.

My mom feels Mr. Colbourne's story is too predictable and too... blah. She was hoping for something else. I should have known because I stopped reading about widowers in my Regency romances because they ALL have the same plot!

I'm still gnashing my teeth over the inaccuracies in this show. The finale plot was rather bland for a finale. My mom was certain Leo was going to run away and be out all night and in the frantic search for her Mr. Colbourne would realize he loved Charlotte. That plot did not go the way we expected or hoped but I'm certain that if the actor has anything to do with it, Mr. Colbourne will stick around. Ben Lloyd-Hughed auditioned for season 1 and REALLY wanted the part and was devastated when he didn't get it. (Sidney, I'm guessing?) so he jumped at the chance to join the cast in Season 2.

Col. Lennox is a nasty dude who isn't used to hearing the word no. I have no doubt he used and abused Leo's mother. I would have challenged him to a duel. Tom and Arthur's method of dealing with him was more effective. His words to Edward were kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

Edward needs to be shot dead too. He's despicable.

I feel bad for Clara because she has been the victim of patriarchy but she chose to ally herself with Edward 9 months ago and nothing can change the consequences of that action. Baby George is considered illegitimate period end of story. (view spoiler)[While I have no doubt Esther and Lord Babbington would be great parents, the law says that baby can not inherit. Boys are problematic. If George was Georgina then there wouldn't be a problem. I'm guessing they're basing this on Edward Austen-Knight, he wasn't adopted as an infant! (hide spoiler)]

I was happy with the way Esther's story worked out but that Dr. Fuchs is an idiot. He should at least be able to recognize laudanum when he smells it.

I'm happy with Alison's story. I knew that was going to happen.

I was happy Tom finally manned up even if Arthur is a better man. Heck even Tom's wife, Mary, is a better MAN.

Georgiana's story was surprising. That wasn't what I expected at all but at least she trusts her friends over some dude she just met a few weeks ago.

Charlotte's story was unexpected. I didn't think it would conclude just yet but her bombshell only two months later was unexpected.

My dad asked (again) how much of this did Jane Austen write? Apparently 8 chapters means nothing to him so I said half of the first episode. He was surprised. I would think he's seen enough adaptations by now to know a)Jane Austen was funny b)Jane Austen didn't write trite melodramas c)Jane Austen wrote happy endings, neat and tidy endings.

The war is over and Edward never had enough money to buy a comission in the first place so he never should have been in the army. The whole thing was ridiculous. Even Capt. Fraser's conclusion. I'll probably watch season 3 though.

I have no idea what on earth this modern drivel called Sanditon is! They went waaaayyy off base to make it appeal to a modern audience. I even called out the inaccuracy of the lawyer labeling the Black woman a slave, which then her lawyer DID state what I already said about the law. My dad thinks I'm a genius LOL! Nah, Mom and I saw that movie too. Belle: The True Story of Dido Belle

It gets worse and worse. Austen is rolling in her grave and yelling "It's supposed to be SATIRE!" Meanwhile Charlotte Bronte gives more of nod of approval to this sort of drivel. There's a nice brooding hero for her. Neither would enjoy Charlotte though. Charlotte is no Lizzy Bennet or even Jane Eyre. Funny how the actual 19th-century heroines know their own mind but the modern day 19th-century heroine does not. (eye roll)

Ugh. Finally. They put Sanditon out of its misery. It was a mashup of Bronte and modern but not Austen. They missed the point of social satire and went with brooding, longing looks and romance with a dash of social justice, feminism, and modern day issues. I kept yelling at the TV "It doesn't work like that!" (the law).

On the plus side, some of the dresses were quite lovely and Charlotte finally put her hair up (sort of).