Weird Westerns discussion

First off, if I'm oversteppin my bounds here, I apologize and please delete this topic.

My name is Ashe Armstrong and I am trying my damnedest to get my first book published via kickstarter. I decided to join goodreads after a friend posted her profile and I figured hey, I bet there's some recommendations there and some potential fans of the weird west. And here you guys are.

So, here I am, I am definitely open to questions, anything you can think of and I hope to have fun around here.

Oh yah, I've been seeing him on the Weird Western facebook pages. Sounds like a good read :) I know nothing about publishing books, is there a reason you're going with real books and not just digital? Aside from real books being awesome :)

Liz wrote: "Oh yah, I've been seeing him on the Weird Western facebook pages. Sounds like a good read :) I know nothing about publishing books, is there a reason you're going with real books and not just digit..."

Well, like you said, physical books are the best haha. A lot of it is that, definitely. I love the feel of books, ya know? And I know there's a lot of folks who do as well. Digital books are fantastic too since they allow us to take our libraries with us anywhere. So, I just really wanted to do both and get my story out to as many folks as I can.

That and as I've done research on publishing, it's just a pretty easy thing to do anymore. Print-on-Demand is an awesome concept.

Ashe, I agree--physical books are great. But I've owned a Kindle for a few years now, and more and more I find I'd rather have the digital version. Still, there's nothing like the smell of fresh printer's ink! That's why I make all my novels available as physical print books (through CreateSpace).

Thanks for the site recommendations, and good luck with your Kickstarter project. I had lunch just yesterday with a novelist colleague who's using Kickstarter to launch a thriller. Exciting stuff, and lots to think about.

Of course, print-on-demand doesn't exactly use printer's ink. The smell of inkjet printing? Doesn't have the same ring to it. Still, nothing like holding a book in your hands.

Ha, yeah, not quite the same but still good. And as you said, folks vacillate between both so I wanted to put out both.

I will say, something I've learned quickly about kickstarter is that you will, almost immediately, start getting spam or folks from other projects asking for backing trades. It can be frustrating.

You would think given today's society that we should only put out ebooks but when in reality, physical copies/paperbacks will never die and we as authors must put out both. You have to pertain to both parties as their are ebook lovers and paperback lovers. POD is a fairly simple system but if you are considering a self-publishing company I would suggest Createspace as well, thats who I use to publish my books.

Hi all! I just published my first novel this summer through Kindle Direct Publishing, and I also have the paperback available through Createspace. I didn't even realize print on demand existed until this year.There is something about holding your book in your hands that digital just doesn't give you! It is possible to get your book out there digitally and in print with a minimal upfront investment, but if you're going to kickstarter I assume you have something a bit more ambitious planned?

Mostly, my ambitions stem from wanting to buy my own pack of ISBN's so that I can better control my ability to publish. So, then I can load up paperback from createspace and also through ingramspark. I've read a lot about using both as tools to get your books out there and not just them being publisher A vs publisher B.

I had seriously considered just going with createspace and being done with it but after some reading, decided it would be best if I planned long term. This book is the first in a potential series. So yeah, I guess I am planning more ambitiously!

Nothing wrong with that! It could very well pay off in the end, I just didn't have the patience for it. I will say I have been very pleased with the quality and service at createspace. Good luck and if I come across anything I think you may find helpful I'll be sure to pass it along. As of right now though, that's all pretty new ground to me as well.

I appreciate it! Having patience right now is hard. I'm a pretty patient guy but waiting for donations and hoping promotion pays off is draining. But, I want to get my book out there. It just sort of exploded into life from a two sentence concept during a discussion with a friend. I thought it'd be a short story and then boom, months later, I'm buried under 30 thousand words and growing.

I'm very excited though. I love this story.

Ashe, I know from hard experience that you won't get much of a return spending your money as an indie publisher on slugs of ISBN numbers. If you're going to enter into a relationship with a distributor, by the time they get their cut, plus the physical bookstore's discount, plus shipping (which you're responsible for), you'll never make a profit unless you price your novel very high (which slashes your potential market). And don't forget, the bookstores have a right of return on unsold books, usually for many months, up to a year or so. The distributor will send the dog-eared books back to you with a bill for the books plus shipping. It sucks.

If you're intent on getting into physical bookstores, consider CreateSpace's expanded distribution. I just published my Weird Western, "Ghost Marshal," this week, and looked into it (who hasn't dreamed of seeing their novel on the shelves of a bookstore?) You can use CreateSpace's (free) ISBN. But by the time everybody gets their cut, you're left with a buck or two if you're lucky. On my 320-page novel, I think my profit would be about a dollar fifty.

Instead, focus your Kickstarter effort on book cover, editing, ebook formatting, and marketing. You'll need at least three or four thousand bucks by the time all is said and done (which accounts for the freebies you have to give away, plus taxes), but you'll have a professional product to compete with on Amazon, B&N, Apple, etc. Then rev up your social networking and get Weird West fans to notice you. Yeah, that's the hard part. But you're already doing it now!

Good luck. And have fun with it!

I definitely appreciate the advice. At this point, I'd have to start a new project for more money and I may end up having to do that anyways. We'll see.

I'll be using CreateSpace for Amazon and Kindle and American shipping in general. As cool as it would be to see my book in a B&N, I'm more concerned with just being able to get it out as far as I can. I dunno, if I get funded, I'll see how the combo of CreateSpace and IngramSpark works. I'm either gonna fall on my face or succeed. I really, truly appreciate the advice though.

Thankfully, I've already got a cover and for a pretty fair price too, so that's done. I'm doin my best to market by myself. This is a full on, independent venture. It's definitely scary sometimes. I do wish I'd looked into editing beforehand but I have several people who can help me out with that.

I guess the biggest thing is having read that not having your own ISBN limits you a lot when using createspace. That it pretty well tethers you to them. I'm still learning. This might be a learning experience.

No problem, and I'm glad you're taking the friendly advice as intended (we creative types can get soooo prickly). Keep in mind that as an indie author you're not tethered to anyone (unless you sign with one of those awful predators that take a fee or a percentage (or both) in exchange for worthless marketing services.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of David Gaughran's newly released 2nd-edition ebook "Let's Get Digital." Lots of helpful step-by-step wisdom for navigating today's indie publishing market.

And if you can't afford a professional editor, grab a copy of Browne & King's "Self-Editing For Fiction Writers." It's gold. I'm an editor by trade, and I lean on their expertise a lot.

Thanks, man. I'll check those out. They sound like they could be pretty helpful.

Hi folks. I'm new to this group but hope to add value and learn lots. John, thanks for your suggestion about Gaughran's book. I just downloaded it and I think it's going to be very useful. I'm just starting out with promoting my first Western so I have lots to learn.

Just wanted to update everyone on my progress and continue to ask for help. Update #1

I've seen your progress and posts on Tumblr and I would say your definitely doing quite nicely and making good progress. Keep up the good work Ashe.

I'm just happy I seem to be managing to tow the line and not cross over to annoying and spammy. I guess it helps that I love talkin about as much stuff as i do. I appreciate the support!

Rick: If you like "Let's Get Digital," you should definitely also pick up Gaughran's followup book, "Let's Get Visible." It gets into much more detail about the marketing side of indie publishing. Good luck with your Western. Tell us about it!

Since this is the "self promotion" thread, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I just published "Ghost Marshal," the first in a series of Weird Westerns. A young woman in Deadwood 1876 hunts down her father's killers by enlisting the help of Wild Bill Hickok's ghost. Think "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" as directed by Sergio Leone. It's been great fun to write, lots of Western action and scares and humor. I just got back from a research trip to Montana and Wyoming, now hard at work on book 2 in the series. No rest for the wicked!

John, where can we pick up your book? Sounds like a lot of fun.

Thanks, Phillip. I didn't want to spam the board TOO much, but since you asked, it's available as an ebook at Amazon, B&N, iTunes, and Kobo (printed version coming soon). If you go to my website, I have hotlinks to all the vendors on the book description page: www.johnchamilton.com

It really was a lot of fun to write. I'm a member of the Western Writers of America through my traditionally-published nonfiction work. It was a blast to let 'er rip and write a novel in the Weird West genre.

At some point, I will check out your book, John. It's in my wishlist now.

Hi! I'd like to throw some spam on the frying pan myself guys! :D My first novel, BRACKETT HOLLISTER THE WEREWOLF PACK is available on Amazon, ebook or print. Just check out my author page here:
http://www.amazon.com/Quentin-Wallace...

Western Gunslingers, African Warriors, Werewolves and a sarcastic Shaman all in one volume!

Also, Ashe, I plan on tossing some dough to you on Kickstarter as soon as I get a little extra, and John, I love the idea of reading some weird western fiction by a guy that actually writes western non-fiction as well, so I will check your book out too.

Thankee sai.

Ashe wrote: "At some point, I will check out your book, John. It's in my wishlist now."

Thanks, Ashe! And be sure to keep us posted on your book's progress.

Quentin wrote: "Hi! I'd like to throw some spam on the frying pan myself guys!

LOL! I like your style, pard.

Maybe we should start a new thread called "The awkwardness of feeling like a carnival barker while promoting your book on social media." :)

Currently still sitting at 27% funding with 21 days left. I want to get this thing out so bad.

John wrote: "Maybe we should start a new thread called "The awkwardness of feeling like a carnival barker while promoting your book on social media." :)"

That would probably be the most accurate thread title, damn. I feel that way a lot.

I love the whole idea of Kickstarter and I'm a big fan of Indie publishing also, so best of luck to you! I'll have to go check out your page when I get the chance.

Appreciate it, dude. I read the first chapter of your story yesterday but got distracted with other things so I hadn't commented yet.

Cool. Thanks for checking it out.

John wrote: "Quentin wrote: "Hi! I'd like to throw some spam on the frying pan myself guys!

LOL! I like your style, pard."

Thanks! lol

I'm kind of excited about posting chapter 1 on Monday. I'm hoping it will help me out with backing too.

Hey, folks! It's Monday and that means a new update for kickstarter and chapter 1 going live! And since I posted the chapter on deviantart, for those who aren't familiar, there should be some viewing options at the top, in the right-hand corner. You should definitely click the paragraph symbol one for indentation.

Click here

I'd like to add my two cents if I can.

A few months ago I tried Kickstarter for my second novel (the second book in a trilogy I am writing, and very much weird western as well as sci-fi and fantasy). Unfortunately for me it didn't pan out; I understand why: I'm a new author, digital release only which many readers are still wary of, only one other novel under my belt etc. There are many roadblocks that can hinder someone using crowd funding BUT that doesn't mean it doesn't work and, of course, don't give up.
However, a few weeks later I got an email from a website called Pubslush which is a crowd funding site specifically for authors. I haven't tried them yet but they look legitimate, so you may want to look into them if you like.
And of course I wish you good luck in your campaign to get your novel published!

I appreciate the sentiment. I'm at half-funding right now and the halfway point of my campaign so maybe I'll get lucky. Good luck with your books as well!

I would just quickly like to announce that my Weird Western Horror, A Bloody Bloody Mess In the Wild Wild West is available for 50% off throughout the entire month of October.

Use code DANJAKB8 at checkout to get discount.

https://www.createspace.com/4241547

Ah, the awkwardness of self-promotion!

I guess I should say what my first novel is, since the sequel is with my editor right now, but this is mine: http://amzn.to/SsmuFT

A bit about it: "The Hopewell Conspiracy" is the first part of a trilogy following the exploits of gunslinger Judes Marlen in the post apocalyptic ruins of a fantasy world devastated by all out nuclear attack from an dead alien race. Along with his steam-powered robot ally and arcane-enhanced revolver, he sets out to stop a man who has stolen of a deadly relic of that bygone era.

Phillip, you might want to rework your blurb on amazon. The sentence about the weapon and the revolver kind of falls apart. I'll snag the book though i can't guarantee i'll read it right away. I'm stuck in a reading lull.

Justin, i'll grab your book too. Same disclaimer on reading though.

Thanks Ashe and no worries as I am in the same boat, so many books to read on my kindle!

Yeah, i've got a stack of books next to the bed. I just hit lulls sometimes. I'll get to them both though and i'll be sure to post reviews. Honest reviews. Honest is best.

Good on you for noticing that Ashe. I'm going to be revising it once the second book is ready to go live; I'm still working on the revised blurb so it is tight and best showcases the novel in less than a paragraph. No worries if you can't get to it right away; my own reading backlog is at a standstill. I just appreciate people reading it! And I always appreciate honest reviews as well.

Blurbs are rough. I spent a few days and had several people's input on mine. Thankfully, this initial story is simple enough that it didn't take long. I'm glad you didn't think I was tryin to be rude.

So much reading, so little time.

Naw, don't worry. I know the difference between good criticism and someone being rude. Plus I got fear of criticism beaten out of me years ago when I was an art student!

Ashe wrote: "Blurbs are rough. I spent a few days and had several people's input on mine. Thankfully, this initial story is simple enough that it didn't take long. I'm glad you didn't think I was tryin to be..."

Thing about blurbs is they have to be catchy and descriptive and written within a few paragraphs or of medium length.

If you make it too short you may not pull the reader in and if you write too much you may turn the reader off.

It's a fine balance to strike. I feel like I did that with mine. Feel free to offer comments to the contrary.

I got 11 days left. I'm startin to sweat bullets now. I'm $345 away from my goal still.