The Sword and Laser discussion

Is anyone else feeling particularly meh about this book? I am at (checks) 60%, and I still don't care about any of the characters at all. I picked it up because of the comparisons to Little Brother, but I'm finding this to be a poor man's version of that really gripping book, with added Djinn (view spoiler)[(who, so far, have done pretty much nothing) (hide spoiler)]. The only person who even seems to have a personality is Dina; totally unsurprising that the girl Alif views as a 'little sister' is the competent one who'll probably save the day in the end. I might even contain the eyeroll when it turns out he actually notices her.

I'll keep going because I paid for the thing, but I'm not holding out any hope so far.

I haven't read Little Brother to compare, but I never felt that way. I am pretty sure though that not everyone will like this like I did.

Unfortunately it's been too long for me to remember what I though about the characters though. I think I liked both Alif and Dina though.

I started this book a while ago and set it down after maybe two chapters because it wasn't interesting me at all. I'm willing to try it again though so I hope there will be some people explaining what it was about the story they liked.

I couldn't remember what I thought of the characters so I looked up my review. Turns out, I also didn't like Alif. (Not sure how far my spoiler tag is into the book so read at your own risk).

I never totally liked Alif. Before his age was revealed, I chalked his selfish behavior up to being a typical teenager. Turns out, he was just selfish. He only thought about his feelings throughout the book. (view spoiler)[For instance, when his friend Dina gets shot, he blames her for it. (hide spoiler)] For the majority of the book, Alif was very off-putting.

The one character I really admired was Alif's neighbor Dina. She clearly harbors feelings for Alif, despite him being kind of a douche. She supports him and is extremely loyal through his whole adventure. She was also the bravest character to me, not just facing danger but for the personal decisions she made, like to veil her face and her conviction to sticking to her beliefs.

I've been picking this up and putting it down since it was announced. It's going very slow for me. Though (view spoiler)[ the code montage in chapter 10 is pretty awesome. (hide spoiler)]

Well I'm having a completely different experience of this book. I have been hooked from the moment I picked it up. I love the portrayal of the middle east (so frank and realistic), the way the fantasy just bleed into the edges of reality and the heavy use of religious metaphors and perspectives (but then, religions fascinate me).

Having read Little Brother I can see some similarities but in their atmosphere they are very different books. This one stands out above Little Brother for me as, though I enjoyed it, it was very much BAM, action!

I'm enjoying the much more meandering route AtU is taking. Though I agree with the fact Alif is a bit of an idiot. Having a flawed lead and not an idealized hero makes him more real to me and I really feel for him approaching the end of the book.

Eleanor wrote: "Well I'm having a completely different experience of this book. I have been hooked from the moment I picked it up. I love the portrayal of the middle east (so frank and realistic), the way the fant..."

I'm glad you brought up the action part of Little Brother - you're right, it was a pretty non-stop book with a smart protag, whereas I want to smack Alif upside the head and tell him to think. I guess I am used to the incompetent protag having other redeeming features, (Kvothe in The Name of the Wind being so infuriatingly confident/cocky but that being tempered by his stuffing everything up all the time), but so far Alif has nothing to balance him IMO. Which in itself may be a realistic portrayal of a person but makes for a pretty boring book character.

I like the religion stuff though, especially as Wilson herself is a convert to Islam and has been an 'outsider' living in the culture she's writing about.

I found it all picked up wonderfully for me at about the 80% mark or maybe earlier.

I remember being engaged from the beginning. I didn't care for Alif but the other characters were interesting.

I guess it's superficially similar to Little Brother? But for me, that's where similarities end. Little Brother is a didactic technothriller--the book's main conceit is that every tool and trick Marcus and his friends use is readily available right now, and the government's actions were based on real events as well.

AtU is more of an urban fantasy with some cyberpunk elements. Actually, it kind of reminded me of A Wizard of Earthsea: Protagonist obsessed with hiding his "true name" behind pseudonyms, who in a pique of thoughtlessness unleashes an evil entity on the world, and only through long travails, noble companions, and a deep look at himself, (view spoiler)[is he able to right what he did wrong (hide spoiler)].

Similarly, Alif's not the most compelling protagonist, much as Sparrowhawk wasn't really the core appeal of AWoE. The setting, the supporting cast, and the ideas being bandied about are what sold it to me. It helped that even though the narrative stayed focused on Alif, it was third-person. That gave me a necessary level of distance from Alif: a first-person narrative from a protagonist I can't stand is easily a deal-breaker.

Yeah, I had a similar feeling, specially for the initial chapters. Turns out that Alif is a regular immature teenager genius, and it is very hard to sympathize with him. I started to like the book better when I put my hand over Alif, and started looking at the other characters more closely. Alif's companions are much more interesting than him.
The book has other strong points, like how it portraits strong female characters, at the same time it positions them as they are seen in present Islamic Middle-eastern society.
But all in all, the plot isn't that interesting to keep me hooked. I'd say it is a 3.5 stars book.

I was very skeptical about this book, both because I am less a fan of fantasy than science fiction in general (I often skip the fantasy pics), and because of the religious and social nature of the story. I generally don't like to be preached at, at least not in a heavy-handed way.

HOWEVER, I downloaded the sample and become intrigued with this story, as it is more of an urban fantasy that what I expected. I finished it today and really enjoyed it, though there are times when you definitely have to make a concerted effort to press the "I Believe" key in order to continue with the plot. (view spoiler)[Specifically, the computer programming aspects seem a little silly. It's easier to accept the jinn and the hidden world than the idea of Alif's computer coding skills and resultant consequences of his coding :-) (hide spoiler)].

Also, while I have a radically different religious perspective and world-view than the author, I found much of the religious and social dialogue to be respectful and thought provoking. This is a difficult task for such subjects, so kudos to G. Willow Wilson.

All said and done, the book was a pleasant surprise and I gave this story a solid four stars. :-)

I was very puzzled until chapter 5, so I would say try to finish at least chapter 5?

Thanks everyone for your input. I ended up Lemming it. At halfway I didn't have any kind of investment in any of the characters and so I didn't end up caring what happened to them.

Which got me thinking - should I expect to get invested in characters and want to know what happens to them? Obviously it's a good strategy for an author (and movies, tv, games), but is that emotional hook something I am entitled to, or is it a sense of entitlement to expect it?

Elizabeth wrote: "Thanks everyone for your input. I ended up Lemming it. At halfway I didn't have any kind of investment in any of the characters and so I didn't end up caring what happened to them.

Which got me th..."

I definitely think there are books that purposefully write unlikeable characters and these books are engaging in other ways. (Eg Wuthering Heights) I think Ms. Wilson was trying to write one of those books and whether you could look past the protagonist or not depended on your own personal experience. I work with programmers like this on a daily basis and to be honest I think that makes it harder for me to read. The world has so far though roped me in enough to keep going. I definitely would've preferred reading this story through Dina's perspective. I find her significantly more interesting than Alif.

Elizabeth wrote: "Thanks everyone for your input. I ended up Lemming it. At halfway I didn't have any kind of investment in any of the characters and so I didn't end up caring what happened to them.

Which got me th..."
Maybe the unlikeable vs likeable character also depends on what you were hoping to get from the story. Alif the Unseen has the feel of an action adventure/thriller and since you're in his head constantly, most people might've preferred someone more likeable.

For me it's always more a case of do I find the character interesting rather than likable. If I'm not interested, then I'll stop reading.

I'm at 70 % and I'm not finding this book very interesting at all. "Meh" certainly is a good way to describe it. It's not that I either like or dislike Alif, it's that I don't feel anything for him. And I find the fantasy elements in the novel to be rather underwhelming. Vikram is a cool character, but there's just not enough of him in my opinion.

When I heard this was going to be the next S&L-pick, I read the blurb here on GR and thought that it didn't sound like something I would usually read. But I wanted to try and expand my reading habits, so I picked it up and I really REALLY wanted this book to be a pleasant surprise. It was not.

I just finished it and I found it to be uneven I thought it boring until the Jin show up. Really didn't like Alif and only wanted him to survive for Dina's sake. I didn't like all the religious parts I thought it was very heavy handed with that. I was disappointed with his usage of the jin aside from transportation he didn't really their power's at all. While I agree that Dina was the best character, she could not do much and half the parts were about her vail. If she took that damn thing off perhaps she could have helped. How many times did someone try to take it off of her!

Eleanor wrote: "For me it's always more a case of do I find the character interesting rather than likable. If I'm not interested, then I'll stop reading."

I think that's it! Alif's not only unlikeable, he's a bit...boring? Even his redemption arc felt super 180. He didn't feel real.

Started out in the meh camp, and ended there. Although I must say the Alif character did evolve and become less unlikeable by the end, he didn't really seem smart enough to be a brilliant programmer or hacker.

I found Dina to be rather one-dimensional also.

I am having serious trouble picking this book back up - and I only managed to get to page 10. Alif is just so very, very unlikable. I thought to read some reviews and spoilers to see if things would turn around but... they've only made me more convinced.

I love G. Willow Wilson and the writing is excellent but... no.

I'm about 70% through and am really liking it. I was skeptical at first too, but loved the mix of mysticism and current technology. Alif is pretty unlikable, but he propels through the story so quickly I tend to ignore him and focus on the story around him, which I am loving.

I agree that for me, the story would probably be even better if told through the point of view of Dina, but that isn't to say I don't like the story as it is. I find myself fascinated by the religious aspects of the book as well, but I've always been a sucker for diving into religious history.

I finally managed to finish the book and I think "meh" fits it very well. It's not that it is bad - I liked the story line in general - but between one-dimensional characters, heavy handed religious bs mixed with gender stereotypes it was hard to maintain interest.

What about books without characters? Just read World War Z and which doesn't have characters in a traditional sense, and it was a great read.

For me, the problem is that Alif is inconsistent... he seems to be growing and maturing, only to make an incredible stupid thing next chapter. So yeah, perhaps he doesn't seem real enough for people to care about him. Agree completely that Dinais the real backbone of the book

Finished it today. Definitely meh.

Agree about the character, but the pacing nearly killed me. There are sections that just drag, like the (view spoiler)[section where Alif is in prison (hide spoiler)].

Stuart wrote: "Finished it today. Definitely meh.

Agree about the character, but the pacing nearly killed me. There are sections that just drag, like the [spoilers removed]."

Arguably, it wouldn't make sense thematically to speed up the prison scene....

Anja wrote: "Stuart wrote: "Finished it today. Definitely meh.

Agree about the character, but the pacing nearly killed me. There are sections that just drag, like the [spoilers removed]."

Arguably, it wouldn'..."

I don't know about that, but if the author's goal was to bore me, mission accomplished.

Stuart wrote: "Anja wrote: "Stuart wrote: "Finished it today. Definitely meh.

Agree about the character, but the pacing nearly killed me. There are sections that just drag, like the [spoilers removed]."

Arguabl..."

Well......yes? The silence and the boredom and the loss of hope of not knowing when the sentence is going to end are part of what make these experiences a torture. It wouldn't make sense not to express that emotional aspect of it. It would've felt cheap otherwise.

I've lemed it. I couldn't get into the characters at all and the setting and technology, which I was looking forward to reading more about, wasn't enough to hold my interest. It's not a bad book, it's just not for me. Meh is a good way to describe it.

Yeah this is not the kind of book where the narrator could go "now prison, mind you, is not one bit of fun, and so we're going to skippiddeedoodle on over to the next part. Imagine a not very nice thing, then times that by several orders of nasty, boredom, and despair, integrate over time, and you've fit a general idea of how it went."

I liked this book a lot. I read ti when it came out and it was VERY topical at the time. The mixture of the odd and Computer worlds reminded me of a Neal Stephenson book.

Allan wrote: "I've lemed it. I couldn't get into the characters at all and the setting and technology, which I was looking forward to reading more about, wasn't enough to hold my interest. It's not a bad book, i..."

If you like being bored by what you read, then that's fine. I don't. Mehhhhhhhhhhh. Oh, and I wasn't a big fan of the characters to begin with, so I guess I was actually bored before Alif ever got to prison in the first place.

I absolutely loved this book. I think part of it is just a refreshingly rational view of an Islamic "melting pot" culture. While the book takes pains to never explicitly identify the locale by name, other threads have a lot of speculation about Duabi, which would make some sense. But with western media filled with pretty negative stereotypes of Islamic culture since at least the late 1990s (well before 9/11) it is really refreshing to read a book where mosques are run by decent people, and where there's as wide a mix of nationalities as you'd find in downtown New York or Chicago (though clearly more strict social strata based on nationality is evident).

I consumed the book via Audible, since I can do so during my lunch exercise period this way, and I really loved the way Sanjiv Jhaveri brought the characters to life--both those of the seen and unseen world.

I'm a bit behind on the podcast so I don't know if this was meant to be a laser or a sword choice (felt more "magical realism/modern fantasy" to me), but I think it was a great pick and I applaud whomever should get credit for suggesting and then selecting a book that falls outside the western/anglo typical fantasy (medieval European feel) trope that is so common.

The one place that I felt a little let down was at the end. (view spoiler)[I think the cost of "revolution" that Alif and the other dissidents finally succeeded in launching was not brought home to the main characters enough by the mob allowing "New Quarter" to live. If anything, I would have thought that the mob might have lynched both him and "The Hand" once they figured out who they were. Revolutions are ugly things and violence seldom strikes out only in the directions where it's convenient, so it seems like Alif and Dina maybe should have had to deal with their friend's death as well as that of the state censor. That's just my personal quibble, and I didn't let it destroy my overall enjoyment of the book. (hide spoiler)]

I would be all for more stories set in modern or ancient Asia, Africa, India, or the Middle East to be S&L selections. A more diverse cultural perspective is not a bad thing, IMO, and I fully welcome it. Thanks again for choosing this book!

Icelord wrote: "I absolutely loved this book. I think part of it is just a refreshingly rational view of an Islamic "melting pot" culture. While the book takes pains to never explicitly identify the locale by name..."

I also agree that a lot of the emotional blow I felt at the ending was lessened when it was revealed that New Quarter survived.