Children's Books discussion

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John Newbery
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The Honor books from 1937 - 10/1/2014
Only Audubon is available in my library system, and though I've ordered it I'm not confident I'll get it.
I can order up to three others from ILL - are any of you planning to read any of these? (If so, I'll choose to ask them to find the same ones you're reading.)
I can order up to three others from ILL - are any of you planning to read any of these? (If so, I'll choose to ask them to find the same ones you're reading.)

message 5:
by
Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs
(last edited Oct 03, 2014 10:29AM)
(new)
Interesting - I just noticed that Ludwig Bemelmans is in the Caldecott picture-book list this month, too, for Madeline's Rescue.
Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "Only Audubon is available in my library system, and though I've ordered it I'm not confident I'll get it.
I can order up to three others from ILL - are any of you planning to read a..."
None of these books is available in my library system.
I can order up to three others from ILL - are any of you planning to read a..."
None of these books is available in my library system.

I was mistaken, I can only order 2, not 3, at a time from out of the system via ILL. I ordered Winterbound and Golden Basket. We'll see!
My library has none of the books. ILL has been a bit frustrating for the older Newbery books, so I don't know if I am going to try to order any of them. I might try Winterbound and Audobon though (although Whistler's Van and Phebe Fairchild also look promising).
I checked to see if Phebe Fairchild would be available cheaply on ABE books, but the lowest price is thirty six dollars American, not an option.
I've placed an ILL order for Winterbound, Phebe Fairchild and Whistler's Van, but I doubt all of them will be available through ILL .
I checked to see if Phebe Fairchild would be available cheaply on ABE books, but the lowest price is thirty six dollars American, not an option.
I've placed an ILL order for Winterbound, Phebe Fairchild and Whistler's Van, but I doubt all of them will be available through ILL .
I actually purchased a copy of Whistler's Van online for less than nine dollars (as the University of Alberta Library charged a ten dollar fee for borrowing the book through ILL, with no renewals possible). And that is the only book I am going to be able to read because none of my ILL requests were successful, even Winterbound (it is actually available at the Toronto Public Library, but because it is a new book, they won't lend it out, and the silly twits have sold their only other copy).
We'll be able to let each other know about most of them, then!
Audubon did come in to my library - I hope to start reading it later today.
Audubon did come in to my library - I hope to start reading it later today.
Well.
I struggled through to p. 50 in Audubon. Painfully boring. I should have known better, after reading the same author's Davy Crockett.
What is even more ridiculous is the author's infatuation with Audubon's handsomeness, with his 'look of race' -- going so far as to hint that he's the Dauphin, who went into hiding during the French Revolution. Well, according to more recent sources, he's not a blue-blood, but a mulatto, Captain Audubon's bastard from Haiti.
As if any of this matters. By the time I abandoned the book he's already grown and married. So, the rest of the book is going to be even more boring. Not for me; I'm moving on.
I struggled through to p. 50 in Audubon. Painfully boring. I should have known better, after reading the same author's Davy Crockett.
What is even more ridiculous is the author's infatuation with Audubon's handsomeness, with his 'look of race' -- going so far as to hint that he's the Dauphin, who went into hiding during the French Revolution. Well, according to more recent sources, he's not a blue-blood, but a mulatto, Captain Audubon's bastard from Haiti.
As if any of this matters. By the time I abandoned the book he's already grown and married. So, the rest of the book is going to be even more boring. Not for me; I'm moving on.

I struggled through to p. 50 in Audubon. Painfully boring. I should have known better, after reading the same author's Davy Crockett.
What is even more ridicu..."
Thanks for the warning. I'd forgotten about the Davy Crockett book. It also went the way of unread books - into the garage sale pile.
Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "Well.
I struggled through to p. 50 in Audubon. Painfully boring. I should have known better, after reading the same author's Davy Crockett.
What is even more ridicu..."
I am so glad that I decided to not purchase the book then, when it was not available through ILL (I've tried a few of the older Newbery medal autobiographies and except for the one about Louisa May Alcott, none have so far been all that memorable). Maybe if you had loved the book, I would have considered purchasing a copy, but if it is that boring, it is not worth spending money on it.
I struggled through to p. 50 in Audubon. Painfully boring. I should have known better, after reading the same author's Davy Crockett.
What is even more ridicu..."
I am so glad that I decided to not purchase the book then, when it was not available through ILL (I've tried a few of the older Newbery medal autobiographies and except for the one about Louisa May Alcott, none have so far been all that memorable). Maybe if you had loved the book, I would have considered purchasing a copy, but if it is that boring, it is not worth spending money on it.

Anyway, as to the book itself, I read it many years ago, and it made very little impression on me. It has a wonderful premise -- three sisters, living through a tough New England winter on their own while their parents are away -- but I just found it kind of bland.
message 17:
by
Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs
(last edited Oct 15, 2014 02:23PM)
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I got a copy of The Golden Basket. Turns out it's simply a story of the vacation of two little girls and their daddy; we observe them making friends with the owners and staff of the Hotel & Restaurant 'The Golden Basket' in Bruges, in Belgium. The hotel is one of the buildings in this picture: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...
Very quietly told - though the mini-adventures are fun, Ludwig Bemelmans has such a matter-of-fact narration style that I never felt engaged. I suppose the book got an honor because we do learn some culture & history stuff.
Fans of Madeline might like this, though. There are lots of pictures, which is good if you like his style. And Madeline and her group do make an appearance! (But I thought she lived in Paris, not Bruges?)
Fans of Madeline might like this, though. There are lots of pictures, which is good if you like his style. And Madeline and her group do make an appearance! (But I thought she lived in Paris, not Bruges?)
Interesting about the Bemelmans book! Since the narration wasn't too engaging I doubt I will take the trouble to track this down (maybe if I were more of a Madeline fan) but glad to have heard about it. He was certainly on the good side of these committees back in the day! ;-)
My copy of Whistler's Van arrived today, a rather worn British copy form 1937 that used to be in a Welsh library (it still has the library sticker and stamps). Of course, I have not had a chance to yet read the book, but the end pages show other books available from the publisher (from 1937, of course). One book was called "The Specter of Communism" and is got (you won't believe this) a favourable and quoted good review from some journal called the "Fascist Quarterly" (I guess that demonstrates that Fascism was a popular or at least an at times acceptable political movement even in Great Britain during the 30s, although I was and remain a bit shocked). Nothing to do with the book itself and the discussion, of course, just a so-called nugget of knowledge.

whoa!
Emily wrote: "One book was called "The Specter of Communism" and is got (you won't believe this) a favourable and quoted good review from some journal called the "Fascist Quarterly"
whoa!"
I know, and it's a children's book at that. But I think it is a great history lesson, namely that Fascism was also at least somewhat popular in countries like Great Britain, and not just in Italy and Germany.
whoa!"
I know, and it's a children's book at that. But I think it is a great history lesson, namely that Fascism was also at least somewhat popular in countries like Great Britain, and not just in Italy and Germany.
Winterbound is actually a very good book, imo. It's quiet, sure. But it's basically a story of two teen girls learning who they are and what they can do, as they run a household in their parents' absence, with the nearest neighbors across the road and down a long driveway. (Garry is short for Margaret.)
They're very different girls, but the wonderful thing I noticed about them is that neither is boy-crazy at all, into clothes/fashion very little, and into gossip only to the extent everyone in a small rural community is. The taxi driver, their link to town, is female. The neighbor father is loving and supportive. Another male runs a nursery (garden center). Almost everyone else is female. Such a refreshing read after so many Newbery reads of adventurers and warriors.
Another good thing is that this book does have four pictures by Kate Seredy, whom we know from Good Master. At least in the edition I read.
I also found it interesting that this family was viewed, suspiciously, by some of the locals, as 'citified' or hoity-toity. But the local equivalent of 'baron' assumed them to be peasants and unworthy of notice. Meanwhile, they were just being their own amiable hard-working selves.
Here's another reviewer's take on this subtle spellbinder: http://collectingchildrensbooks.blogs...
They're very different girls, but the wonderful thing I noticed about them is that neither is boy-crazy at all, into clothes/fashion very little, and into gossip only to the extent everyone in a small rural community is. The taxi driver, their link to town, is female. The neighbor father is loving and supportive. Another male runs a nursery (garden center). Almost everyone else is female. Such a refreshing read after so many Newbery reads of adventurers and warriors.
Another good thing is that this book does have four pictures by Kate Seredy, whom we know from Good Master. At least in the edition I read.
I also found it interesting that this family was viewed, suspiciously, by some of the locals, as 'citified' or hoity-toity. But the local equivalent of 'baron' assumed them to be peasants and unworthy of notice. Meanwhile, they were just being their own amiable hard-working selves.
Here's another reviewer's take on this subtle spellbinder: http://collectingchildrensbooks.blogs...
Cheryl, you've made me add "Winterbound" to my list. Sounds like my cup of tea :-)
And, if you liked that, you might enjoy "The Calico Year" by Dorothy Gilman Butters. I loved it and it's rather along these same lines by the sound of it.
And, if you liked that, you might enjoy "The Calico Year" by Dorothy Gilman Butters. I loved it and it's rather along these same lines by the sound of it.
I will definitely look into The Calico Year, thank you.
Btw, my Winterbound was a Dover e-book, loaded onto a kindle for me to read. Idk if your library does overdrive or kindle loans, but this might be a good way for them to get a copy for you.
Btw, my Winterbound was a Dover e-book, loaded onto a kindle for me to read. Idk if your library does overdrive or kindle loans, but this might be a good way for them to get a copy for you.
I am surprised at how much I am enjoying Winterbound. The characterisation and descriptions remind me a bit of L.M. Montgomery, and it is quite refreshing to have so many strong and independent female characters.
Kathryn wrote: "Cheryl, you've made me add "Winterbound" to my list. Sounds like my cup of tea :-)
And, if you liked that, you might enjoy "The Calico Year" by Dorothy Gilman Butters. I loved it and it's rather a..."
I think it will definitely be your cup of tea. I'm reading it right now and it very much reminds me of L.M. Montgomery.
And, if you liked that, you might enjoy "The Calico Year" by Dorothy Gilman Butters. I loved it and it's rather a..."
I think it will definitely be your cup of tea. I'm reading it right now and it very much reminds me of L.M. Montgomery.
Okay, the L. M. Montgomery comparison has sold me on this! ;-) It already sounded great but now I am bumping it up and adding to my Christmas list! Thanks, Gundula!
Heh. Well, this thread will, of course, remain open. I'd love to hear any thoughts any time, as you-all get a chance to read it.
I'm still wondering about Phebe Fairchild: Her Book and Whistler's Van if anyone ever gets a chance to read those, too.
Cheryl wrote: "I'm still wondering about Phebe Fairchild: Her Book and Whistler's Van if anyone ever gets a chance to read those, too."
I will be reading Whistler's Van (found a cheap copy online). Phebe Fairchild: Her Book was not available through ILL and was much much too expensive to even consider purchasing (although it sounds like a story I would enjoy).
I will be reading Whistler's Van (found a cheap copy online). Phebe Fairchild: Her Book was not available through ILL and was much much too expensive to even consider purchasing (although it sounds like a story I would enjoy).
One thing I have noticed with regard to Winterbound is that while this is a book written during the Depression era, it is for all intents and purposes a positive and uplifting book, so much unlike the doom and gloom historical fiction children's books about the Depression that seem to be the rage nowadays. Maybe we should consider that while the Depression might have been an era of want and poverty, it was perhaps not also automatically an era of pain and cynicism (and that poverty was not always horrible).
Good point. I hope you don't mind I take your comments as inspiration and explore them from my POV:
Historical fiction does tend, too often, to focus on the negative, especially lately. Back in the early days of the Newbery awards, the history stories (ie the biographies by Rourke, etc.) seemed to be about courageous ppl having adventures against larger threats - but now authors are afraid of being too proud, too nationalistic and otherwise elitist.
Personally, I'd love more stories like Winterbound that tell a nice family story and get some history in while they're at it. And, similarly, it's refreshing to read about the era before WWII. I never even realized I was reading about the Depression era until you pointed it out.
Stories written from the author's personal or family memories, ie Little House on the Prairie, Caddie Woodlawn, and Roller Skates, tend to be more cheerful, more about the day-to-day, and more optimistic.
Iirc from past reading, that's going to change over the course of time for the award winners. Adam of the Road and M. Henry's horse stories teach us some history (about periods and events covered less elsewhere) but they do so within the context of terrific stories.
I also think about a very popular television series from just a few decades back, The Waltons. That was def. in the same vein as Winterbound, as you describe it above. They were poor, but they had joy, because they had faith and family. Nowadays that would be seen as both corny and preachy, unfortunately.
I guess the upshot of my scattered thoughts is that there is a lot of historical fiction available, of all sorts, and what sort it is can't be deduced from whether it was noticed by the Newbery committee or not. Hopefully teachers and others, when told be a student, "I don't like historical fiction," will probe and find what she doesn't like about it, and will know how to find something more appealing to offer her.
Historical fiction does tend, too often, to focus on the negative, especially lately. Back in the early days of the Newbery awards, the history stories (ie the biographies by Rourke, etc.) seemed to be about courageous ppl having adventures against larger threats - but now authors are afraid of being too proud, too nationalistic and otherwise elitist.
Personally, I'd love more stories like Winterbound that tell a nice family story and get some history in while they're at it. And, similarly, it's refreshing to read about the era before WWII. I never even realized I was reading about the Depression era until you pointed it out.
Stories written from the author's personal or family memories, ie Little House on the Prairie, Caddie Woodlawn, and Roller Skates, tend to be more cheerful, more about the day-to-day, and more optimistic.
Iirc from past reading, that's going to change over the course of time for the award winners. Adam of the Road and M. Henry's horse stories teach us some history (about periods and events covered less elsewhere) but they do so within the context of terrific stories.
I also think about a very popular television series from just a few decades back, The Waltons. That was def. in the same vein as Winterbound, as you describe it above. They were poor, but they had joy, because they had faith and family. Nowadays that would be seen as both corny and preachy, unfortunately.
I guess the upshot of my scattered thoughts is that there is a lot of historical fiction available, of all sorts, and what sort it is can't be deduced from whether it was noticed by the Newbery committee or not. Hopefully teachers and others, when told be a student, "I don't like historical fiction," will probe and find what she doesn't like about it, and will know how to find something more appealing to offer her.
Cheryl wrote: "Good point. I hope you don't mind I take your comments as inspiration and explore them from my POV:
Historical fiction does tend, too often, to focus on the negative, especially lately. Back in ..."
I agree with everything you have posted :-)
For me, I think the reason why I love this book so much is precisely because it tells a nice and warm family story, one where there does not need to be craziness and action in order to tell a story, and even in order to show both conflict and solutions (much of the fiction of Lucy Maud Montgomery is also like that and precisely that similarity is what is endearing Winterbound to me so strongly).
Also, with Winterbound, while certain perhaps dated ideas exist, they are not overt (for instance, it might not be all that politically correct for the African American maids to have been called "coloured" but guess what, that was the way African Americans were generally referred as at that time, and it is rather avant-garde and progressive that Edna gives them free rides to town, although she has to unfortunately keep mum about this in the presence of her "old ladies").
Another thematic to perhaps discuss is the attitude towards hunting. While hunting is described, Neal seems a very responsible hunter and Garry is actually rather against hunting (but hunting for fox pelts, while repugnant to many of us perhaps, makes a world of difference financially wise to a family like the Rowes). What I found interesting is that Winterbound is one of the earliest books I have read so far that approached the difference between responsible and irresponsible hunting behaviour (the fact that is is better to have a black or a yellow cat because a tabby coloured cat can often end up shot due to the fact that many hunters just shoot at anything that moves).
Historical fiction does tend, too often, to focus on the negative, especially lately. Back in ..."
I agree with everything you have posted :-)
For me, I think the reason why I love this book so much is precisely because it tells a nice and warm family story, one where there does not need to be craziness and action in order to tell a story, and even in order to show both conflict and solutions (much of the fiction of Lucy Maud Montgomery is also like that and precisely that similarity is what is endearing Winterbound to me so strongly).
Also, with Winterbound, while certain perhaps dated ideas exist, they are not overt (for instance, it might not be all that politically correct for the African American maids to have been called "coloured" but guess what, that was the way African Americans were generally referred as at that time, and it is rather avant-garde and progressive that Edna gives them free rides to town, although she has to unfortunately keep mum about this in the presence of her "old ladies").
Another thematic to perhaps discuss is the attitude towards hunting. While hunting is described, Neal seems a very responsible hunter and Garry is actually rather against hunting (but hunting for fox pelts, while repugnant to many of us perhaps, makes a world of difference financially wise to a family like the Rowes). What I found interesting is that Winterbound is one of the earliest books I have read so far that approached the difference between responsible and irresponsible hunting behaviour (the fact that is is better to have a black or a yellow cat because a tabby coloured cat can often end up shot due to the fact that many hunters just shoot at anything that moves).
Totally agree. Though it's technically not hist. fic, in that it was written contemporary to the setting, it feels historical to us. And all those things about hunting, 'coloured' ppl, woodstoves, etc., are, to us, history. And I would love to read this with middle school children and see what they think about the lives their recent ancestors might have shared with these girls.
Cheryl wrote: "Totally agree. Though it's technically not hist. fic, in that it was written contemporary to the setting, it feels historical to us. And all those things about hunting, 'coloured' ppl, woodstoves..."
Right, technically, this is not historical fiction (because it was based on the time in which it was written), while the Little House series should be considered historical fiction because it was based on the author's childhood and young adulthood (and was written as a memoir, but one written in the third person).
Right, technically, this is not historical fiction (because it was based on the time in which it was written), while the Little House series should be considered historical fiction because it was based on the author's childhood and young adulthood (and was written as a memoir, but one written in the third person).
All that jargon! :grin:
To other folks reading our conversation - don't worry about the definition of historical fiction; we won't test you on it. ;)
To other folks reading our conversation - don't worry about the definition of historical fiction; we won't test you on it. ;)
Emily wrote: "Just a quick note on Winterbound. The author, Margery Williams Bianco is the author of The Velveteen Rabbit, and I've found that goodreads entries for her books are sometimes a litt..."
I think it would be best to combine the two authors (they are the same).
I think it would be best to combine the two authors (they are the same).

Would love to know about others in this vein that might get overlooked. It appears to me that Williams doesn't have any others like it. This has so much more depth than YA of modern days.
Michael wrote: "Needed a new book to read today and grabbed Winterbound. It's tremendous - reminding me of Mabel Robinson's Bright Island and, maybe even more so, her Strong Wings. I..."
The only thing that I could complain about, is that the book was too short and there are no sequels. I wanted more, and I still want more.
This book actually reminds me of L. M. Montgomery's fiction and for me, praise for a book can no higher be, really.
I would also say that those who think this book is boring, really should reread it as a slice of life, a character study, a paen to a simpler time. I still have not managed to post a review but that is because I often have qualms and issues posting reviews or rather what I think to be adequate reviews for books I really and truly loved.
The only thing that I could complain about, is that the book was too short and there are no sequels. I wanted more, and I still want more.
This book actually reminds me of L. M. Montgomery's fiction and for me, praise for a book can no higher be, really.
I would also say that those who think this book is boring, really should reread it as a slice of life, a character study, a paen to a simpler time. I still have not managed to post a review but that is because I often have qualms and issues posting reviews or rather what I think to be adequate reviews for books I really and truly loved.
I agree. I don't really have words to say why I enjoyed Winterbound, and so thank you for yours, Michael. I would be delighted read more that are akin to it.

I know what you mean about a sequel - one can imagine lots of further development, but if there were more, it might be like, say, Magical Melons: More Stories about Caddie Woodlawn where it just doesn't quite live up to the standard set by the original. I'd settle for more realistic fiction by Williams, not necessarily about the same family.
One odd thing was that "mother" or "mama" was not in the older children's vocabularies - it just seemed odd to me that they would refer to their mother as "Penny."
First names were another curiosity - the author has the whole universe available and chooses to have Margaret (Garry), Margaret (Peggy), and Margaret (Aunt Margaret) - and two Carolines also? I know family names sometimes do work that way, but you would think that in fiction, when you have a choice, you'd let readers keep things straight a little easier.
Incidentally, is Garry pronounced like gar (the fish) or like Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary Indiana? I assumed the former. I tried to see if this was a common nickname for Margaret in days gone by but could only learn that there is some theater director named Garry Hynes, where it's for Gearoidin (the Irish version of Geraldine).
Now you've got me wondering about a whole bunch of things that I had just accepted... good job! ;)

It's a great travel adventure story that could appeal to fans of Francie on the Run or Boy With a Pack or Adam of the Road, or a number of other similar books, including the much more recent The Mostly True Adventures of Homer P. Figg.
The thing that struck me was the wealth of vocabulary this book contained. It's packed with Romany terms, of course, but it's also got a bit of Welsh. Then there are the words that relate to horses (a big part of the story), then there are the simply more advanced words that today's children's literature has neglected. A glossary (and a pronunciation guide for the Welsh - I mean, you've got a pony named Twm-Twm on page 5, for heaven's sake) would have been appreciated. It seems that some words also have variant spellings (this book uses wardo (wagon), but vardo seems to be more standard now). There's also mention of a tinker's cant called "Kinnick" that as far as I can tell is probably what is also called Shelta - but I could be wrong.
Similarly, I don't know the ins and outs of the various gypsies of the British Isles - travellers and Kale and Romanichal, etc. - I couldn't say if these are subgroups or synonyms or what. There isn't a whole lot of evidence in this book of prejudice from the mainstream population, mostly the gypsies are presented in a positive light. Not sure if this book was specifically written with that kind of propaganda slant. Should this book be republished (and I'd love for that to happen), some additional text giving historical context, etc. would be wonderful.
Fantastic information; thank you for coming back to let us know. I'll move this to 'wishlist' so maybe I'll get a chance to read it soonish. :)
Books mentioned in this topic
A Day on Skates: The Story of a Dutch Picnic (other topics)Francie on the Run (other topics)
The Mostly True Adventures of Homer P. Figg (other topics)
Adam of the Road (other topics)
Whistlers' Van (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Hilda van Stockum (other topics)Kate Seredy (other topics)
Ludwig Bemelmans (other topics)
Ludwig Bemelmans (other topics)
Idwal Jones (other topics)
More...
Phebe Fairchild: Her Book by Lois Lenski
Whistler's Van by Idwal Jones
The Golden Basket by Ludwig Bemelmans
Winterbound by Margery Bianco
The Codfish Musket by Agnes Danforth Hewes
Audubon by Constance Rourke