Clean Romances discussion

Hello, Everyone

I would like to know what marketing strategies each of you use to successfully get your work noticed.

Do you think blog sites are a good way? Facebook? And what about Amazon's meet the authors forum, do any of you think it really works?

Thanks!

Hi, Groovy, I'd like to hear the answers to those questions too. I did a Giveaway on Goodreads and lots of people signed up, but only a few of the winners reviewed. Hundreds of people have my book on their "Want to Read" lists, but very few buy, even when I offered it at a steep discount. Personally, I don't do social media like Facebook. It seems to be a hard slog of going to places where you can read from your book and sign copies, paying for ads in publications that focus on readers of your type of publication, etc. Several people have said that you have to publish at least three books before anyone takes you seriously.

So if anyone out there has good ideas, let us know! I'm sure lots of authors would like to hear. Thanks.

Basically, you should do anything you can think of doing.
Social media can help although it depends how much you do as to the results you get. It helps to visit pages and websites that discuss books that you yourself have enjoyed that are in the same genre as the book you have written. Facebook pages can be good too but you must be involved in them. I have found Twitter not to be that helpful but I still do it. You should also review books, especially those in the same genre as your own, anywhere you can. Blogging once a week is also recommended (I hate this but still do it).
In addition, trying to interest bookstores and other place by visiting them is also helpful. Try and get your local library to stock your book. Visit writing groups and book clubs and maybe become involved in one or two if you have the time. Writing and book conventions are another good way to help people hear about your books.

I'm with you, Abigail. Number one, I really don't like Facebook. And like you, the "want to read" lists for my books are huge, but no one's buying.

I received an email from Amazon featuring the successes of Kindle authors on youtube. One author named Jessica Park published on KDP and overnight her book had soared to number nine. She didn't really say what she did to accomplish that. I'm going to look at all of them. Maybe I can learn something that will help.

Lynne, I would like to know if all of the work you're doing on Facebook, writing groups, etc. Do they result in big sales for you?

Thanks!

I think they have definitely resulted in some sales. Certainly my publisher says that I keep getting sales from places where she has no real influence, so I guess they must be doing something. I haven't tried the Amazon route yet. I don't know much about it. I will be interested in hearing anything you can find out about it.

Twitter is a great tool once you get it going. I've had it for years and just started concentrating on it the last couple months and have seen big results.

Danielle wrote: "Twitter is a great tool once you get it going. I've had it for years and just started concentrating on it the last couple months and have seen big results."

Don't you have to keep writing on it at least three or four times a day to keep your thread going? How do you find the time to write?

Thanks!

With Twitter, I usually only do it twice a day, although I have some additional stuff up as well. I schedule my tweets using hootsuite, so most of them are done at the same time.

One word of advice about Twitter, though. One thing that put me off it was that every other author who I followed did nothing but promote their books at me 24/7, which is very annoying. You need to put up things other than just book promotions.

Lynne wrote: "With Twitter, I usually only do it twice a day, although I have some additional stuff up as well. I schedule my tweets using hootsuite, so most of them are done at the same time.

One word of advic..."

Thanks, Lynne

Don't you have to keep..."

I did some market research to set some goals.
1. The most tweets/activity is from about 5pm-10pm.
2. Use hashtags to promote keyword searches
3. Follow others who either read, write, review, or publish and watch for industry news.
4. Retweet others. Always thank and retweet those who retweet you.
5. If someone retweets you, make sure you follow them back.

I also checked into a couple sites that tweet book news. Most charge a fee, but there are some that will do in exchange for other things.

Oh, yes, and Friday seems to be the busiest and most productive night as people are looking for weekend reads.

You can find me at @DanielleThorne

As a reader and a twitter user can I add...

- Don't just tweet a link without a description.
- Try to Tweet something of your own at least every few weeks, like a mini book review or something others are likely to pass on.
- Think about what would make you follow someone else and try to do that.
- Don't follow people in the expectation of being followed back without any interaction or purpose.
- Put a link to your website/blog or book in your profile

I sometimes go weeks without posting anything, you don't need to post daily to keep the account, if that's what you mean. But if you're trying to build up followers it helps to be visible.

Great tips, thanks!

I really appreciate people taking the time to give this advice! Thank you!

Yes, thank you all so much. I, too, appreciate your knowledge along these lines.

What does anyone know about romance blogsites? Does it pay to advertise on them? I would appreciate any advice in that area, too.

Thanks!

Speaking not as an author, but just as a reader, word of mouth is pretty big in getting me interested in a book. I follow some book review or discussion websites and blogs and do take into account what they have to say about a book.

Amateurish-looking covers give me the impression that the writing will also be amateurish.

Blurbs can be a turnoff if they're poorly written, including if it's "tl;dr," or doesn't let me know anything about the genre, era, setting, etc.

And I honestly pay little, if any, attention to an author's plugs of their works.

Abigail wrote: "Speaking not as an author, but just as a reader, word of mouth is pretty big in getting me interested in a book. I follow some book review or discussion websites and blogs and do take into account ..."

Thank you, Abigail, for helping us to understand it from a reader's POV. I read your answer at least five or six times to make sure if I haven't implemented those things, I will in the future.

Thanks!:)

Very interesting. I would like your personal opinion on my book covers and let me know if you would read these books. Thanks for your time, it is appreciated.

https://www.facebook.com/829069833778...

Delisa,it would probably be better to have photos that cover the whole area, rather than fade into a border like that. Also, the photos don't tell us a lot about what the book is about.

There are places like a place called Elance where you can hire people who can do a pretty good cover for you for a reasonable price. My publisher often uses Elance. They can be a real help. :-)

Awesome, thanks for the response. I really thought the title of my books said what the book was about....they are romance novels. I will consider working with Elance or Fiverr for book cover designers. Thanks.

Great ideas, folks! I use FB, Pinterest and Twitter (and GR of course), plus blog once a week. In my experience, word of mouth starts slowly but you can build a following as you get more books published. But there's no magic formula--it varies with each author.

Hi Delisa, I added the cover to the Goodreads entry for your book: Romance on the Road: First Romance Novel in the Series

I would agree with Lynne about not having a border around the entire photo. Looking at the professional cover designs of books by successfully published authors is one way to learn how to present a polished final product. Here are a couple of cover examples I found from a quick search.

This one shows a cover where the photo fills the whole cover area, as Lynne mentioned:

And this one has the photo to the edge at the top half of the cover, but with a fade to a solid-colored bottom half:


I notice, too, that those examples have a much larger font size for the title and author.

What works is a mysterious formula no one really knows. Those whose books make it big seem to do about the same thing as those whose books don't. I've loved some best sellers, felt indifferent about some, and hated some. Who knows what really works?
But I agree, word of mouth is a huge part of what gets people to buy books. And authors can't control that. All they can do is try to get their name to seem familiar to people--name recognition--which is why we turn to social media.
A professional-looking cover is also huge. Also, covers really should give a clue as to the genre or readers tend to pass it over.
Being visible, meaning personal appearances, is a big deal. I see a little blip in royalties after I've done a big book signing and met people and given away a bunch of bookmarks and other freebies. I also see blips in royalties after I've taught a workshop or class.
But the best thing I ever did was hire someone to do the SEO coding and other web marketing voodoo--my royalties doubled and then doubled again. Unfortunately, they leveled off, but are holding at that higher amount.
Hire professionals to help you do what you aren't good at doing yourself, like a professional website, using a publisher or hiring professional artists for cover art and book formatting, marketing, etc.
It's a big publishing world. It's hard to rise above the noise. Just do what you feel you realistically can do. And then write the next book.

Well said, Donna. And good point to end with--you have to write the next book too!

I have had hit and miss success on each social media site ;)

Goodreads is an excellent way to connect, but I get a lot of traffic thru my FB page too. Its fun to interact there. Other author connections help too. I have met some good fellow indie authors. (just nice to know you aren't alone in it all ;))

Sarah, does your FB exposure add up to sales? I really don't know how to work FB yet, so my question is, how do people know to come to your page?

@Groovy
you should visit http://www.iamareader.com/ and have a look at some of the giveaways ..... lots of authors give the option for visiting their fb page in the giveaway.

With FB...you start with friends and family who are already your friends (I asked them to share with their friends too) I also share my FB page when I do an interview...or on Twitter.
I have it linked to my author page on Amazon. I also interact with other authors. Your FB author page is essentially created by word of mouth ;)
Also...interaction with FB reading/writing pages helps as well. :)
I don't know if it has amounted to a lot of sales yet, but it's a great way to get your name out there and make yourself viewable! :)

Thanks, Samina, I will look at it.

And thanks, Sarah, that's good advice. Time for me to start talking:)

Groovy wrote: "Thanks, Samina, I will look at it.

And thanks, Sarah, that's good advice. Time for me to start talking:)"

You are welcome! :)

And speaking of getting noticed, I have another question that fits this thread:

How many of you have sales in all the international countries listed on Amazon's KDP? My books only sell in the US, GB, and Canada. But I never get any sales in all the other countries listed.

Does anybody have any idea why? Or what I can do? I mean, not one sale from one person, that's weird.

What is your royalty setting? If you have it at 70 it tends to make the other countries more expensive. I do 35% and I get quite a few sales in other countries. :)

Ooooh. Thanks, Sarah. I'll look into that.

No problem!

Groovy wrote: "I'm with you, Abigail. Number one, I really don't like Facebook. And like you, the "want to read" lists for my books are huge, but no one's buying.

I received an email from Amazon featuring the su..."

Some of those Kindle authors, Groovy, have been picked out by Kindle Scout and publish through Kindle, so Amazon gets behind them by sending out emails and doing loads of advertising. I can't imagine anyone getting to number 9 so quickly otherwise.

Thanks, Anna. This helps me to understand a lot. You know what else I learned? Advertising your book as an author is NOT easy:) In fact, it's way more difficult than writing them.

There's a very good thread on the Goodreads Author Feedback Group called Best Bang for Buck where there's loads of input on what works and what doesn't. I've been following it for some long time. To sum up: most of the sites where you pay money to advertise on their emails to their subscribers are not worth the money they charge. We've probably found that out already but it's good to find that it's the same for everyone. There are a few sites where you usually get your money back and BookBub has author fans who say it really does work. A couple of other sites are also deemed just about worthwhile.

As it's very hard to get your book accepted for these good sites, there is not a lot else you can do, except to keep on writing - which is what is the strongest recommendation. Facebook and Twitter ads are not worth it, according to most people.

It's a long thread and most of the good stuff was posted some while ago now. Some of the latest posters are just repeating what has been said earlier and asking the same questions as we are here.

Kindle Countdown Deals are very good for getting noticed so long as you have done the hard work of getting sites to advertise for you - and paid the money. I have a Kindle Countdown Deal coming up at the beginning of July for my time travel book (clean romance) and it will mean it is reduced from $2.99 to $0.99 so you could follow it and see if it works.

Yes, Groovy, I find marketing my books is very time consuming and so how can I write another one quickly!

Thank-you, Anna. Again such good advice. I hope others are reading what you've put here.

You're so right, those sites are hard to get on, especially if you don't have a lot of reviews; and it's hard getting readers to leave you reviews so it's like standing between a rock and a hard place:) I've given away loads of books for reviews. But the return rate for those promised are very low. So, like you stated, I'm going to keep on writing.

What's the name of your book? I'm going to buy it. I love clean romance. And this one sounds interesting with the time-travel.

Hi Groovy. On a very reputable site you can offer your book for review. When I first started out writing, this seemed like a good idea. I sent off my book to two people and never heard another word. I sent off follow-up emails of the 'just wondering if...' type and not even the courtesy of a reply, not even an 'I didn't like it' type.

Lesson learned early.

And yes, reviewers are treasures, people who take the time and care to leave a thoughtful review are people of quality in my opinion! And I wish them sunny and happy days!!

On the Best Bang for Buck thread in the Goodreads Author Feedback Group,someone called 'Jack' set out to test most of the sites and other types of promotion. If anyone has time and the inclination you can follow his early threads right through to his latest where he really is now a successful author and making a decent living from his writing.

Thank you for thinking of my book! It is called



I hope you enjoy it. It has been described as 'part mystery, part romance, part time-travel' by one reviewer.

Anna, you are a treasure, and I mean that:) I'm on my way to read what 'Jack' has to say.

I second that about those reviewers who take their time and care to help out authors by leaving a review. I've met some really nice ones. Even those that said one of my books wasn't for them, I treasure their kind words. And I have some who are like friends who wait for my next book to come out. And I know you probably feel the same as I do--it makes you smile for weeks on end to know there are some out there that hang on to every page. That's why I'm working on two projects at once, because even if it's one or ten--they're waiting.

Number one: I love your cover. The different genres and synopsis has peaked my interest. This is going on my summer read list. As with all of your books, I hope this one does very, very well. Thanks, Anna:)

Reviews are really important though, and to get enough reviews to start getting into Amazon's advertising and onto other review blogs and such you have to be willing to give out more than two. The last stat I heard at conference was that you get about a 30% return on reviews to copies sent out or purchased, which I find pretty accurate. So if you want 100 reviews you figure that'll take 300 copies either purchased or given away. I'm not saying you should necessarily think of giving away 300 but I know a lot of folks who keep a list of 20-30 minimum and upto 100 advanced reviewers who always get early copies in exchange for review requests.

Being prolific is still prolly the best advertising as each new book tends to create a bump on the old ones, but reviews come in right after that and do require being willing to share your work for the return on investment.

Great post, Anna. I agree, it's tough getting folks to follow through and write a review. I've had friends of mine rave about my book on my personal Facebook page but when I ask if they'll write a short review on Amazon it's tough to get them to go that extra step. It can be even tougher with review copies sent out. I guess that's why it's such a thrill when an unsolicited happy review appears!

I'm sorry, I forgot to put that the Best Bang for Buck thread is on the Goodreads Author Feedback group.

Thank you, Anna, yes I have the same problem in that friends and family seem oblivious of my great need of reviews! I have just two from friends (as far as I know) and they belong to Book Groups. Goodreads authors have been good to me (apart from a couple). We just have to sit back and wait. And wait.

Anna wrote: "Great post, Anna. I agree, it's tough getting folks to follow through and write a review. I've had friends of mine rave about my book on my personal Facebook page but when I ask if they'll write a ..."

Do you give them a link right to the page? And maybe suggest they just cut and paste whatever they just raved on your Facebook page right to the Amazon or Goodreads box. One of the things with reviews is trying to make it as simple as possible for them.

And I don't think we do have to just sit back and wait. There are a million review sites out there, you just have to do your homework and be willing to send things out. There are groups on FB and here on goodreads for finding review readers. There are give aways, there are generally local opportunities to get your name known in your town.

All social media options don't work for all people, but find the one that really works for you, helpful if it's also where your target market is, and make that one really work. Twitter parties, FB parties, giveaways, marketing blasts, co op with other authors...other authors are one of your best resources and there are lots of folks just on this group that you can network with for broader reach and opportunity. Just because every effort doesn't bring in a flood of cash doesn't mean that each effort isn't part of the pebbles which roll downhill. And a lot of these things cost time more than anything. So figure out how many marketing hours you are willing to put in each week and how to use them effectively, then get on to writing the next book.

Anna, I have a question for you, but if anyone else wants to answer that would be great:

Since you promote your books on sites like askdavid.com, discount bookman, etc., and especially those that charge between $60-$85 to promote your work--Would you recommend them? Do those sites really work for you?

I'm not sure if I'm the Anna you're asking?

I don't promote on askdavid.com or discount bookman and I have only once paid in the $60 to $85 bracket and that was for BookBub a while ago now.

Mostly I try to use sites that don't charge at all, they take a bit of finding. Here's a link to a blog which lists a lot of sites you could check out, though it's quite an old post and some of the sites are no longer operating. It takes ages to trawl through and find how much they currently charge (if anything).

Mostly I pay something like $10 = eBookStage. I never spend more than I've earned through previous sales. This hobby/career could become a big black hole, gobbling up too much money and making me unhappy!

I do know of someone who submits her books to dozens of sites and does very well by doing so. I can never find the time to do more than half a dozen.

If I'm not the right Anna, shout and maybe the right one will step forward.

Sorry, Anna. I thought for sure I read that from one of your threads. But you answered my question with some good advice: You--"never spend more than I've earned through previous sales"--smart!

This is a really great thread! I had no idea about the ratio of books given away to numbers of reviews. I'm still learning about the business side of writing, but I have learned that marketing needs to be only a very small portion of my time. There's a much greater return when I focus on writing more, and not just in terms of book sales. I'm much happier when I write! :)

Exactly how I feel, Amy. I don't like the marketing side, although I know I have to get the word out. But, I can't wait to get through with work for the day so I can get back to mingling with my characters and taking them on their journey.

I can't wait to get through with work for the day so I can get back to mingling with my characters and taking them on their journey.

A good way to express how I feel too, Groovy!

Anna, I haven't heard from you in so long. It's so good to hear from you. Are you working on anything new at the moment!