The Not a Book Club Club discussion

Section 1

Please keep all discussion and speculation to the events of Chapter 1 - Chapter 17

No spoiler tags required. Though it would be highly appreciated if you Uncheck Add to my Update Feed to avoid accidentally spoiling this for your good read friends.

Please do not discuss events from later chapters/books.

I started a little early so I guess I'm the first here. Good book so far. A pleasant change from the other fantasy I've read this year.

-the magic system is kind of like a mix between stormlight and biochroma from Sanderson's books.

-I like the idea that Gavin sets himself these great goals for his tenure as prism. I'm curious to find out more about the rest of them

-the escape by Kip seemed to drag on a bit. But at least we know the author has no problems in killing all of his friends

-I wonder why Gavin broke his betrothal. Him and Karris seem too genuinely love each other. I guess it was the situation with Lina. Oh well

Also, great chapter break Rob. Nailed it.

I already read this book...unfortunately, I read all three back-to-back-to-back just a month or so ago...so I'm hesitant to jump in, not remembering where things split and not wanting to spoil too much.

I love the magic system in this book. I like the idea of using the entire spectrum of light to do things. I also like learning more about how this type of magic is used and how it is expanded during the rest of the series.

I think Kip's escape scene emphasizes how plain, how boring he is. Not many people think of a fat kid as main character-type appeal...

I like Gavin's tenure goals too. It seems like a great thing to do - but then...I like lists.

The color magic system is neat!

I can't really recall anything that stood out to me either. I am not rereading this novel but maybe we could do a seperate thread for the series that states the rules that are given throughout then examples of when they are changed.

I remember when I read this book that I found the magic system intriguing but felt like it was kind of loose and never really firmly established.

Alex wrote: ""It was the kind of beauty that made you shit your pants." Oh, Brent, I love you."

I missed that line. What was he referring to there?

So its looking like Brent Weeks just isn't for me. I'm not really getting into this book.

I'll finish the whole thing, but at this point I don't see myself continuing on with the series.

Kip seems like a bad parody of a chosen one story. And what I mean by bad parody is, it's so bad it doesn't seem like a parody. I'm bored by him/it already.

Gavin seems a little better. But he's entirely too powerful so far. May as well be super man, and I find super man the most boring comic book character.

Unlike Harry Dresden, I don't think his snark is that good (or I just don't find it funny), and Harry is never the most badass guy on the block. He starts off fairly weak fighting and grows in power as the series goes on and fights tougher and tougher enemies. So far Gavin seems way more powerful than anyone else we've met.

The magic system makes no sense to me. I hope he provides more detail as the story goes on. I like well defined magic systems much better than the hand wavy kind. I do find the ideas of it being based on colors intriguing, but as a first time reader I find it's all just hand waving bullshit so far.

The only real bright point so far has been Karris. She at least seems less tropey than the rest of this book.

Things at least are picking up at the end of the section (which split where it did entirely by coincidence of math Geoff, though I'll take the credit anyways!) with Satrap Garadul, although his character seems to be entirely a trope as well.

Hopefully the rest of the book is better, otherwise this one is getting a 2, or maybe a 3 since it's at least well written and hasn't pissed me off like his last two books. Mostly I'm just bored.

I get that the book's not for everyone...but I'll be interested in what you say when you get to the end. I do think it started a little slow, and I see your points, but I definitely got hooked. Books 2 and 3 are better (and different characters come to the forefront).

I didnt like Kip much at the start either. Gavin just felt like a Superman, so I expected him to be able to do whatever whenever however. Kerris was okay, but not particularly interesting. The "past" between Gavin and Kerris was groan-worthy to me.

The magic system is definitely one of the most interesting I've read of in a while. It's right up there with Sanderson and Mark T. Barnes for me.

I agree, Kip was a whiner. I'm happy to report that if you keep with it (in the other books), he'll get better (though, as every self-conscious one of us knows, you never fully outgrow it). One thing I really love about the progression of all three books is that different characters really come to the forefront in later books. For example, Ironfist has a very big role and you learn a lot about what makes him...well, Ironfist....in the third book.

I felt like, as I read this series back to back to back a couple of months ago, that I was always discovering something. And even though there are "issues" with the light magic, I thought it was really nifty...and seeing its extensions as the series has gone on has been another round of discovery.

Comments on Alex's spoilers...(view spoiler)[
-Did anyone notice that Dazen had a hitch with blue in his first scene? He opens the window and thinks that there's something slightly wrong, though he ends up brushing it off.
--> I haven't re-read, but if I had, I bet I would have picked up on this. Though it's not clear that he had a reason to have an issue with blue yet...

- The Blinding Knife, there it is!
--> Yep, when the knife became a "thing," I realized that must have been what Kip's mom had. I don't remember exactly how she got it, though.

- Throwing this here because it's not entirely obvious if you're not looking for it, but when Kip sees the steam evaporating off of Sanson in orange whorls, I'm pretty sure that's him seeing sub-red.
--> Well, you don't know TO look for it for awhile (can't remember what book that comes up in), unless you read through Gavin/Dazen's lies about his testing...

- I like how we see the conflict between what Dazen wants to do at the end here (just kill everyone and move on) and what he thinks Gavin would do to keep up the charade.
--> Yep. But I'm not going to say more until you finish book 3 because I don't remember when you learn things. (hide spoiler)]

While i dont have any emotional attachment to the characters, i am enjoying this book so far, but not blown away by it.
Kip is interesting due to his flaws, Gavin is arrogant due to his powers.
I am not a fan of the short chapters, and fast POV change. Hopefully this will slow down when more characters are together.
The story is fairly light, and reads as such which is good.

Not convinced by the Magic system myself. Not bothered by lack of hard lines like Rob is, just the fact that light can be used like that.

All in all, this is a 3 - 3.5 book so far (i am also doing the Audio - which is not that bad - i have listened to worse narrators).

Am I supposed to know who Ironfist is right now?

Richard wrote: "Hopefully this will slow down when more characters are together."

There are 95 chapters or something over 630 pages or so, which is roughly 6.5 pages/chapter, so I don' think that will be changing anytime soon. At least not in this book.

Rob wrote: "Am I supposed to know who Ironfist is right now?"

No, other than that he's kind of a badass. His story really picks up at the end of book 2 and into book 3.

But we met them? Or no? I don't remember that, but I've been battling insomnia this week and reading has been tough so maybe I just glossed over them.

It took me 3 tries over 3 nights to get all the way through this week's Flash.

Probably not helping this book's cause either. I think there has only been 1 night I've managed more than like 20 pages.

I'm hoping to make a better dent this weekend and maybe it will start clicking for me.

Oh I don't remember where he is introduced it might be next section. I should put the books back in Kindle so I can remember section divides.

Give it a go this weekend and hopefully things will get better. It seems Rab liked it better as it went on, judging from his review.

Yeah well Rab and Alex both get way too excited about books. I'm a lot more leary about them giving something 5 stars than I am for other people.

I'm more inclined to listen to Sky's comments about it in the what else are you reading thread. He seemed to have a similar experience with the beginning of this book the first time he read it, but liked it a lot more by the end.

Based on Rab's review, he didn't like it at first, either. And, in honesty, I'm not sure I did. Though I know my feelings were peppered by the crappy narrator, too...

I guess I don't really get someone giving a book a 5 if they didn't like it/part of it.

If I struggle with a book, the highest I'll give it is a 5. But then of course I'm overly strict about those things..lol.

Well I'm not saying his magic system is hand wavy, just that's how it seems. Hopefully as the book goes on it will stop feeling that way. But if I have to wait until another book, I'll be annoyed.

Not saying I need all the rules now, but some would be nice.

So far all I've got is:

1) Magic is based on colors
2) Different colors do different spells
3) There are varying degrees of how many colors a person can tap
4) You can only tap a color so much before something bad happens and you possibly go crazy.

But the connection magic has to colors is totally hand wavy so far.

I like the book a lot so far, and I didn't think I would because I'm getting a little burnt out on this type of fantasy

Ug, I'm on the app so I can't edit/delete that premature comment.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the book so far, if not quite blown away by it. The magic system is interesting enough, though as I read more and more of these magical high fantasy books, they do all start to feel like they're based on a similar formula. I like the way he describes what happens during drafting though, especially during that first chapter when the green color wight starts to draft.

That green color wight has yet to re-appear as of chapter 17, but I think he's my favorite character so far. He had a great exchange with Kip in the beginning, something along the lines of:

"Do you know why you've always felt like you were destined for greater things?"
"No, why?"
"Because you're an arrogant little shit."

Great line, very funny, and I love how the book is taking a bit of a tongue in cheek approach to the whole "hero of destiny" trope. Brent's writing and dialogue are not quite up to Abercrombie's level in my opinion, but they both have a very casual, humorous, light approach to some otherwise dark material.

I like the pacing very much so far - good mix of immediate action and table setting for what's to come.

Perhaps bold, or perhaps obvious prediction: Kip is not actually Gavin's bastard, but many of the events of the book will turn on everyone's assumptions that he is.

Andy wrote: "That green color wight has yet to re-appear as of chapter 17, but I think he's my favorite character so far. He had a great exchange with Kip in the beginning, something along the lines of:

"Do you know why you've always felt like you were destined for greater things?"
"No, why?"
"Because you're an arrogant little shit.""

Yeah, I think that's my favorite part of the book so far.

Is that what is happening? That hasn't been clear at all.

I finished the first part today and up until now it's a so/so experience for me.

I like the idea of a magic system based on color as well as the Flintlock elements. Especially intriguing is the imprisoned brother, although I found this "I hit him under the school but nobody knows about it" not really convincing.

The characters on the other hand don't work for me at all. I even don't really feel that Kip is "fat", cause unfortunately he is of so little interest to me that it didn't even matter.
I like Gavin and Karris a bit better, but I'm not really in love with any of them.

My biggest beef, and that is why I'm a bit afraid of me overnthusiastically having bought all 6 books by Weeks already, is the writing style. There is way, way, way too much description of motion in it.
The overdetailed description of how Kips swims (he extended an arm etc.) or the maddeningly slow way he described Gavin and Karris steering their flying contraption drive me insane.
I have a feeling that I get a 300 page story with 300 pages of explanation how a human body moves. Sorry Brent, I know how cause I own one!

Every form of dialogue is an oasis at the moment. I hope that there will be more plot later on and atm the world is intriguing enough to continue, but to get in higher rating spheres I need better character development and less description of insignificant things.

And of course, what would be a read with me without a mad theory? The whole mention of Prism War vs. False Prism War leads me to believe that maybe the bad guys have won and the good guy lost. Wouldn't it be great, if the prisoner turned out to be a benevolent hero? So, here you go, "Gavin is the villain" is my crazy theory for now.^^

Rob wrote: "Is that what is happening? That hasn't been clear at all."

I got that. The example with the candle was mentioned somewhere. I understand the part with the mass so far, what's unclear to me is how they make it move, cause how far you can throw a summoned spear seems to depend on your concentration, so not all energy seems to become mass, you can also use some as energy still, that's how I got it, but I don't know how.

To me the whole boat flying scene was like:

Add this color like this then a little of that color like that and wave my hands and bam! I'm traveling faster than anyone ever had before!

Rob wrote: "To me the whole boat flying scene was like:

Add this color like this then a little of that color like that and wave my hands and bam! I'm traveling faster than anyone ever had before!"

Oh yeah, and that it's very important to shift your body to the left to turn left and turn your body to the right to turn right. And you have to repeat this very often on your long journey, just in case you had forgotten how balance works.

Alex wrote: "Mpauli wrote: "Every form of dialogue is an oasis at the moment."

Explain?



This belonged to the "There is way too much description of insignificant things" rant like body motion etc.
Reaching a dialogue atm means the story has a chance to move forward instead of a body.^^

Yeah. I'm not looking for you to explain his magic system to me.

I simply said it all seems very hand wavy so far and you got kind of defensive about it.

It sounds like it is more well defined and that I just haven't gotten to it yet, which is fine.

I wasn't saying I want/need some big info dump at the start so I understand it immediately.

Rob wrote: "It sounds like it is more well defined and that I just haven't gotten to it yet, which is fine."

Yep, I totally agree. I mean we both read 10 Malazan books and I'm still not sure if I could write a dissertation of the warren magic.^^

Alex wrote: "Here, the opposite is true. You transform light into mass."

Conceptually, I knew what was going on but that's great, and concise, way to put it.

It grew on me. At the start I was at best ambivalent, and as it went along there were more than a handful of things that rubbed me the wrong way. But by the end? I enjoyed it. I'm not as crazy about it as Alex is, but I had a lot of fun listening to the last 1/3 of it, and that went a big way to balancing all the early stuff I didn't dig as much.

No apologies for getting too excited about books :p There's almost nothing I like doing more than reading.

I hadn't originally noticed how the author over-describes certain things, but I guess that's true now that I think about it. It didn't really bother me at the time, but I'll probably be hyper-aware of it going forward now that it's been pointed out - thanks for ruining what was turning out to be a fun reading experience for me (just kidding)!

As far as over-description of how magic works, I have noticed that in other books (I'm looking at you, Mistborn: The Final Empire) and it bothered me a lot there, but I guess I just like the way Weeks describes it.

Mpauli wrote: "I finished the first part today and up until now it's a so/so experience for me.

I like the idea of a magic system based on color as well as the Flintlock elements. Especially intriguing is the im..."

I'm with you, Mpauli - there is definitely something up with the Prism War vs False Prism War, with the way Gavin didn't cheat on karris during the war, yet somehow has a 'son of my blood' (I think maybe Kip is his brother's son?) and even Gavin and Karris and their history...both brothers were involved with her as Dad wanted his brother to marry her...maybe a switch happened between the brothers, or something. There is something there anyway, I'm curious to find out what it is, what Gavin is hiding.

Ooh, I like the nephew theory. Linette.

I like it too - but why would Gavin need to hide that? Can't quite pin it down...must read on.

I like that too. I think Dazen was spending more time in Tyrea around that time, wasn't he? Alex and the other re-readers must be dying to tell us how right/wrong we are on these theories. I admire their restraint.

Alex wrote: "Andy wrote: "Alex and the other re-readers must be dying to tell us how right/wrong we are on these theories. I admire their restraint. "

We are talking about all of you in the future threads, and it's hilarious."

Wait until you hear my "The White is Gavin's mom" theory.

LOL Andy :D They probably are laughing at us. Once again I'm in the group that can't click on the spoilers.

And yes, I watched for that specifically and his brother Dazen was there during the war too.

Yeah, I remember having trouble with the beginning of this book before, and as I read it through it a second time, while it was better, I still got some echoes of what I really didn't like about it.

1. The magic system doesn't really get explained until much later. I certainly didn't remember the physical properties of each color luxin, aside from red being flammable, and I only had a general idea about the emotional aspects of each color, and these are important things. I really think that there should have been a little more set-up to introduce the world, because even knowing that there was a rigorous system behind it, it still felt very loose.

2. Kip sucks. I mean, he's not only needlessly whiny (which is actually probably the most accurate thing about him), but he just saw every single person he's ever known get murdered. I expect less lip and more breaking-down-and-crying-at-every-little-thing.

3. Gavin and Karris are asses. They save Kip, and immediately start arguing about their relationship. Gavin then starts bullying Kip to show that he can't be manipulated ON THE DAY WHEN KIP SAW EVERYONE HE'S EVER KNOWN DIE. The ass-hattery continues in later sections, I don't want to spoil it.

4. Karris is a moron. Yes, we're told that she's a bad-ass warrior princess, but that doesn't really come to light. Instead, we get someone who makes bad decisions based on emotional reactions... which might be a brilliant example of what being a green/red drafter does to your mind, but since no-one outside of her perspective comments on it, I'm thinking it's just a somewhat sexist representation of women. Which is sad. I really wish it were the other thing. Think about it. She's sent to spy on Garadul, finds out that he's declared himself king, is training an army of drafters, and has started slaughtering his own people. Welp, good job spying, you should probably head back to... what? You're going to stay? Because of... oh, you hate Gavin and can't stand to be around him. Got it. No, yeah, that totally sounds like the kind of choice that someone who's spent a large portion of their life learning to be one of the most elite soldiers in the world would make in the heat of the moment.


But at least I know that it gets better. Hang in there, Rob. Things get explained eventually.

Well thanks for ruining the least crappy character for me Sky!

Rob wrote: "Well thanks for ruining the least crappy character for me Sky!"

That's what I'm here for.

Honestly, though, the characters do get better as the book progresses, they just start out as unlikable douche-bags.

As for the colors...

Alex wrote: "It's definitely pointed out that blue is hard, green is flexible except when the story needs it to not be (like for making spears that impale a bunch of charging horses), orange is a lubricant and is pretty ill-defined in general (seriously, does anyone really ever use it?), yellow is basically liquid light except when it's not, then it's harder than blue because of reasons, red is pyrejelly except when the story needs it to not be (making a protective shell, using it as tubes for air) and is flammable, and superviolet is invisible and used to target and trip things for everything and everyone who can't draft it is just sad all the time."

There's also sub-red, which doesn't need light because it's heat and what the hell do superviolet and sub-red wights look like?

I was definitely in the Rob camp on my first read-through, because they just started saying things about the properties of colors without giving us some clear reasons for them.

You know how Sanderson says that your ability to solve a problem with magic should be directly proportional to how well your readers understand the magic? They started solving problems well before I understood the magic, so it wasn't until this 2nd read-through where I felt like they were allowed to solve those problems because I already understood how they were doing it.

Sky wrote: "You know how Sanderson says that your ability to solve a problem with magic should be directly proportional to how well your readers understand the magic?

They started solving problems well before I understood the magic"

Maybe this is why it was bothering me...

I will say I'm starting to like the book more in section 2..but I haven't gotten to the end of it yet so I've been avoiding the discussion so far.

My reading progress has been abysmal though. I should finally finish section 2 tonight.

Alex wrote: "Sky, that is a brilliant response. Now that I think about it, yeah, there is a lot of hand-waving. And the Sanderson thing is fitting as well.

I stand corrected then."

I think that the hand-waving is actually justified later on in the book, it just made for an awkward start.

Ok, read a bit further on than these chapters.

Been reading everyones comments and can see both sides.

my thoughts are,

feels like I am read a second series of books with the way the book starts.

magic system is keeping it interesting

as is the mystery man.

also not getting the humour.

Kieron wrote: "One thing I need to mention that is bugging me. Could he not of picked a more original heroic name for the mighty prism than ........ Gavin!"

I was more bothered by "Guile" as a last name. "Gavin Guile" sounds like one of those bad sci-fi hero names from that Mystery Science Theater 3000 Episode: http://sol-domino.tumblr.com/post/568...

Look out Gavin, it's Thick McRunfast!

Coming to the party late. Not a lot to add, there is great discussion already. Warming up to the book much faster than the last few reads we've done. I guess I am a sucker for immediate action.

Alex wrote: "OK, before we start I want to talk a little about the magic system based on comments Brent made when I saw him in Seattle.

Basically, he gets lots of feedback about how there are mistakes, or he w..."

Interesting point Alex will keep this in mind when reading further.

The magic system is interesting but it is hard to understand, hopefully it will become more clear as the book progresses. I would really like to understand how Gavin operates skimmer.

I am using graphic audio for this book and they have overdone it sometimes but it is really a movie in your head with it.