Catholic Thought discussion
Treasure in Clay
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Chapters 5 thru 8
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Hello again, I hope no one minds, but I will writing highlights and thoughts by each chapter. Chapter 5
"lower nature had fallen through man, it was fitting that all lower nature should be reconciled to God through man. That is why there was an Incarnation instead of pantheism." -This particular passage I highlighted due to the fact I am currently working on some independent studies. One of those studies is Christology.
"A teacher who himself does not learn is no teacher." -This is a true statement.
Ven. Sheen mentions forgetfulness and a talk he did in Dublin. What struck me personally and maybe someone can help me further my inquiry is he mentioned grandparents from Bessarabia. I know of a Bessarabia which borders the Black Sea. I only know this because my maternal grandfather's mother side all come from that area. What I am wondering is there another Bessarabia (maybe a town in the Midwest) ? I find it fascinating cause I would have overlooked this little gem.
"no matter how brilliant you think a remark is, avoid anything that has a political reference." -I think this statement needs to put out in social media for how many people would think before they wrote an opinion.
"There is a tremendous potentiality for sacrifice among the young in this country. Certainly not the least of the difficulties is that the elders are not challenging them. The young people are rebelling against the bourgeois ethos of their parents, who believed in the American way of life, which judged prosperity by material achievements. But on thing that their parents never asked themselves was what they would do with themselves after they had bettered their condition. To some extent, religion fell in with this bourgeois ethics. It began to give not theological insights into the meaning of life, but rather psychological and sociological views to accommodate the bourgeois good life to religion." -A powerful statement that I think rings true in our present time. Thoughts on this particular part?
Chapter 6:
"Radio is like the Old Testament, for it is the hearing of the Word without the seeing. Television is like the New Testament, for the Word is seen as it becomes flesh and dwells among us." -I would wonder what Ven. Sheen would say to Social Media in this analogy.
"Thus the tendency to imitate whatever was popular became a pervading spirit among some churchmen throughout the years." -This is still true today or do you disagree?
I remembered that Martin Sheen picked his stage name based on his admiration of Ven. Fulton Sheen. I had forgotten Martin Sheen asked permission to use his name.
The letters between President Eisenhower and Ven. Sheen are for one, beautiful and direct. Second, they show the charm and wit of Ven. Sheen. Throughout all I have read or listen of him shows that was one of the many reasons people drew to him. His wit, frankness, and honesty was transparent. And sometimes (I will mention this again) that wit comes to like curve ball.
He mentioned his blackboard and I could not help but remember that first episode I watched of his. How he just flipped the board over to show flow of consciousness of the subject he was teaching. I also enjoyed his little commentary about his artistic skills, or lack there of. Is it just me or is it almost common for most priests to lack this skill? Most I have met in my 11 years around priests I have not met one with artistic skills.
When he mentioned that his show was aired at even bars, it reminded me of how he reached to people. As I mentioned in the introduction post my Granny loved the man, yet was Southern Baptist. You have to wonder how many who watched his show were inspired to come home to the Church or at least look into knowing the Church.
The story of the French Jew got me laughing. Was I the only one who laughed?
"One man in Pennsylvania wrote telling me that he had twelve books showing that the Pope was the Anti-Christ. He was prepared to send them to me, but I kept talking about "the Holy Father" and "the Vicar of Christ." "I was waiting for you to talk about the Pope but what you said about the Holy and the Vicar of Christ, I rather liked."" - I told this little story to my husband (I tend to do that) and he chuckled. It is sad to see how ignorant some are of the Church that when they do not know that those terms are directly associated with the Pope.
"I would gradually proceed from the known to the unknown or to the moral and Christian philosophy." -His method that he used during his television days should be regarded as a method when it comes to the new evangelization and evangelization. Do you agree or disagree?
I find it interesting that the most letters he received were from Jews and then right behind that Protestants. And he mentioned that letters were in minority of rude or bashing of him or the Church.
"In retrospect I had two approaches; one was the direct on radio, the other was indirect on television. The direct was the presentation of Christian doctrine in place, simple language. On television, I depended more on the grace of God and less on myself....Never once was there an attempt at what might be called proselytizing." -Again worthy advice for us in the present age as we evangelize or use what is called the "new evangelization".
"There was absolutely nothing in that telecast that would draw a soul to the Church. God just used it as an instrument. "Paul plants, Apollo waters, but God gives the increase."" -Love this little quote.
I would have loved to have seen what Ven. Sheen would have done with the electronic age or social media. I think someone who probably most close to him is Mother Angelica (EWTN) and Bishop Barron. Are there any others who you think of?
"There is need to take hold of tortured souls like Peter, agnostics like Thomas and mystics like John and lead them to tears, to their knees or to resting on His Sacred Heart." -Beautiful Quote
"The most brilliant ideas come from meeting God face to face. The Holy Spirit which presided at the Incarnation is the best atmosphere for illumination." -Those he giving advice to his fellow priests I feel I could use this piece of advice when speaking to someone or preparing for speaking in small groups for my Catholic Ladies group or Dominican Laity.
"I am convinced that preaching and lecturing are impossible without much studying and reading...weakness of the modern pulpit and lecture platform--the neglect of a continuing education. books are great friends; they always have something worthwhile to say to you when you pick them up. They never complain about being too busy and they are always at leisure to feed the mind." -How true Ven. Sheen, how true.
"The higher the building, the more materials have to go into it. One need never fear of exhausting materials if there is serious study." -Another good quote on the importance of learning and knowing (simple or in-depth).
"The first subject of all to be studied is Scripture, and this demand not only the reading of it, but the study of commentaries." -I believe in this. I am still working on reading Sacred Scripture in its entirety.
Chapter 7:
"Cajetan, in commenting on a text of Aquinas, observed that if one starts with a wrong assumption and is logical from that point on, he never will get back on the road to truth." -I liked this observation and agree with it.
He brief explanation of the writings of Marx, Lenin, and Stalin was as I would say very Ven. Sheen. "Their philosophy can be summarized rather simply: man has been "alienated" from his true nature in two ways--by religious and by private property." He goes on to say very bluntly, "Atheism and the economics of communism are inseparable."
The one this I did not know about Karl Marx was his Jewish background and how he became a Christian with his family for political reasons not religious.
The experience Ven. Sheen had with FDR was something that would probably turn the average American's head. I should mentioned I have never liked FDR (I love him as a human being and pray for him, but cannot find the reason to like the man). Many associate him as personable and a man of the people, this is how he is presented to me when I was in High School 12 years ago.
Ven. Sheen's experiences with Communist Spies is extraordinary. But, I am amazed how he stood firm in that communism was wrong, but made sure to know what it was and how it worked. He was not just disliking it because it was against democracy, no it was wrong because he learned in depth how it went against so much more.
""Pilate and Herod were enemies and became friends over the bleeding Body of Christ, so one day communism and Nazism, which are now enemies, will become friends over the bleeding body of Poland." The prophecy became true as the Nazis and Soviets were united." -So powerful.
Chapter 8:
"The Christian law is that the higher we go, the lower we are to become." -This quote is not just advice for priests, but for the laity as well. When we take a leadership role we must become servants to those who placed us in that role.
"It took me some to discover that the jewel in the ring does not necessarily become a jewel in a crown of Heaven." -I love how again he is very honest, he shows that he is human and not some demi-god.
"The worth of a bishop is determined by his donation to life, not its duration."
"God will judge me rather by how I reflected Him, not only in work but in word and life." -This quote should be advice for all.
His observations as a bishop struck me:
1. Bishops are a gift of the Father to the Son.
2. Bishops continue the Mission of Christ.
3. The Lord is not always pleased with us.
Can these observations be use to observe the laity in some way?
"Our Lord was not a superstar; He was a Superscar." -All I could think is the musical Jesus Christ, Superstar. I know I know how could I, but I honestly think (unless I am off by dates) Ven. Sheen was saying something about how people view Our Lord.
I was amazed about the piece information he spoke of on the worth "breathed". I did not know that in the Greek version of the Bible the word is only use twice. Did anyone else know this?
"The truer the Church is to Christ, the great will be her tribulation. But it is in the midst of the Church with all faults and failing that the Lamb bears away sin. The Church is not made up saints, but of sinners who are trying to be saints. This is true of the bishops." -This is one of my top important pieces advices from Ven. Sheen's autobiography as of right now.
"I think bishop are strong only when they are united with the Holy Father. As we begin to separate from him, we are not longer under the prayer of Christ. And it we are under the prayer of Christ, we are not longer protected, nor are we strong guardians or angels of the churches." -This advice struck me with current times. I will admit one can disagree with a Pope, but still we must still stand by him. If one disagrees with him they can start a dialogue as Paul did with the Apostles, but he still adhered to the authority.
"Before He gives strength, He makes us feel our emptiness." -How true.
Thank you for reading all of this (if you do). God bless and enjoy your week!
~Nikita~
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I read it to my husband too :)
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No need to apologize Nikita. This is fine. I quote and comment all the time.
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I remember reading that he said his grand parents or his great grad parents were from Ireland. When I google "Bessarabia" all I get is the Eastern Europe city. Can you identify the location. I don't have page numbers on the Kindle edition, so if you can give me a chapter and how many paragraphs in.
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"Thus the tendency to imitate whatever was popular became a pervading spirit among some churchmen throughout the years." -This is still true today or do you disagree?."
Unfortunately that is so true. We have a split inside the church and I've come to the conclusion that liberal/conservative doesn't do the split justice, though many identify the split in that way. After reading Pius X's encyclical a few weeks ago, I've come to realize the split is modernist/anti modern, or perhaps even more accurate modern/traditional.
I love that radio/TV quote. I used it as a quote for one of my updates. I guess we could look at the new media in two ways. On the positive side Sheen might say it's of the Holy Spirit. On the negative side he might say it's of Satan. ;) Of course that could apply to radio and TV too.
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The experience Ven. Sheen had with FDR was something that would probably turn the average American's head. I should mentioned I have never liked FDR (I love him as a human being and pray for him, but cannot find the reason to like the man). Many associate him as personable and a man of the people, this is how he is presented to me when I was in High School 12 years ago."
Actually that's fairly common knowledge on Marx. You must have missed it along the way. I'm at least a generation older than you, so perhaps you may not have learned as much as I was forced to on Marx.
I don't know much about FDR's personal nature, but I do know he was vicious in politics. That anecdote did not surprise me.
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I was amazed about the piece information he spoke of on the worth "breathed". I did not know that in the Greek version of the Bible the word is only use twice. Did anyone else know this?
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I'm sure he had the Broadway play or movie in mind when he wrote that, but "superscar" is astonishingly witty! I loved it when I read it.
I was surprised too that "breathed" is only used twice in the OT. That's very surprising to me. I would like to double check that somehow. I don't have a bible concordance.
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~Nikita~"
I read it all! Thank you for writing it! It was a great read.
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I read it to my husband too :)"
I thought it was cute. ;)
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A theandric action is one in which both the divine and human nature of our Lord is involved.
Fascinating. I thought that advice he got from Cardinal Mercier was excellent:
“I will give you two: always keep current: know what the modern world is thinking about; read its poetry, its history, its literature; observe its architecture and its art; hear its music and its theater; and then plunge deeply into St. Thomas and the wisdom of the ancients and you will be able to refute its errors. The second suggestion: tear up your notes at the end of each year. There is nothing that so much destroys the intellectual growth of a teacher as the keeping of notes and the repetition of the same course the following year.”
On the first piece of advice, again that modernist/traditionalist split that keeps popping up. Clearly Sheen is in the traditionalist camp. As to the second piece of advice, I’m not a teacher, but I don’t think I could ever do that. It’s probably a good idea, but too much work goes into a year’s worth of notes.
I was surprised when Nikita last week mentioned that Bishop Sheen was a Lay Dominican. Perhaps this had something to do with it:
For many years our dean in the School of Philosophy was Father Ignatius Smith, a Dominican, who was not only a brilliant teacher, but also a renowned preacher. My class every afternoon was at four o’clock. Before going into the classroom which immediately adjoined Dr. Smiths, I would go in and visit with him for ten minutes. He would walk out of the office with me and tell me a funny story as I was on my way to the classroom, so that I would enter the classroom laughing. My association with Dr. Smith which lasted for years, was one of the happiest of my life.
Does he mention in the autobiography that he is a Lay Dominican? I don’t recall seeing it but this moment would have been an ideal spot to mention it.
I thought this was a particularly insightful note on education:
I felt a deep moral obligation to students; that is why I spent so many hours in preparation for each class. In an age of social justice one phase that seems neglected is the moral duty of professors to give their students a just return for their tuition. This applies not only to the method of teaching but to the content as well. A teacher who himself does not learn is no teacher. Teaching is one of the noblest vocations on earth, for, in the last analysis, the purpose of all education is the knowledge and love of truth.
Yes, a teacher does have a moral obligation toward their students.
Here is one of his observations that I don’t believe is true any longer.
I have been invited to secular universities several hundred times, many more than I have been invited to talk in Catholic universities. I have found that too often some in religion want to be secular; but on the other hand, I found the secular want to be religious. In talking in universities, I realized that the more divine the subject, the greater the response.
Secular universities have about eliminated any reference to religion, and frankly Catholic universities, except the few that are strongly traditionalist, have also tampered down religious thought. That unfortunately is the state of religion in this day and age. I don’t think Bishop Sheen would recognize today’s universities if he were alive. Of course that anecdote about the talk on chastity he mentions toward the end of the chapter to ten thousand college students runs counter him not recognizing today’s universities. But I still believe that. Maybe it’s because I’m more cynical since I live in NYC, one of the Liberal capitals of the country, but I do think conditions have gotten exponentially worse since his day.
Manny wrote: "Does he mention in the autobiography that he is a Lay Dominican? I don’t recall seeing it but this moment would have been an ideal spot to mention it.I thought this was a particularly insightful note on education:
I felt a deep moral obligation to students; that is why I spent so many hours in preparation for each class. In an age of social justice one phase that seems neglected is the moral duty of professors to give their students a just return for their tuition. This applies not only to the method of teaching but to the content as well. A teacher who himself does not learn is no teacher. Teaching is one of the noblest vocations on earth, for, in the last analysis, the purpose of all education is the knowledge and love of truth."
Maybe later in his autobiography he will mention this fact. The reference of Fr. Ignatius could be hinting of this fact he was a member of the 3rd Order (as it has been known for many years). I can say that Bl. Pier Giorgio Frassati was also a Lay Dominican, but it is only mention quickly through those who write about him (even his sister's biography on him) and he references his promises to the Order as Lay member briefly in letters that I have read from him.
Who knows Ven. Sheen might mention it or just hint at it because it was so ingrained into his spirituality that he did not think to mention it in such grand details. Plus, I forget how diocesan priests go through formation for the Order. Also, their obedience is to their Dioceses and not to the Providence Leadership of the Order, if I am correct. Forgive me for ranting.
Manny wrote: "Here is one of his observations that I don’t believe is true any longer.I have been invited to secular universities several hundred times, many more than I have been invited to talk in Catholic universities. I have found that too often some in religion want to be secular; but on the other hand, I found the secular want to be religious. In talking in universities, I realized that the more divine the subject, the greater the response.."
I find the first part of his statement about religion want to be secular is more so accurate from my experience in some of the parishes and Catholics I have met (even Protestants I have met too). The second part of his statement I would have to agree with you Manny.
Manny wrote: "Actually that's fairly common knowledge on Marx. You must have missed it along the way. I'm at least a generation older than you, so perhaps you may not have learned as much as I was forced to on Marx. I don't know much about FDR's personal nature, but I do know he was vicious in politics. That anecdote did not surprise me."
It is funny I do not remember that taught in school (secondary or college) or maybe I tuned it out because I never found learning about communism or Marxism interesting...who knows in that regard.
When I was in secondary school FDR was portrayed as a type of "secular saint". I was never taught about him being vicious in politics. Then again there were other historical facts about others that were omitted in our learning. Hence why I went into independently studying history on my own because I felt I was not given the whole picture.
Manny wrote: "I remember reading that he said his grand parents or his great grad parents were from Ireland. When I google "Bessarabia" all I get is the Eastern Europe city. Can you identify the location. I don't have page numbers on the Kindle edition, so if you can give me a chapter and how many paragraphs in"It is the 14th paragraph if you count back from the end of the chapter. Bessarabia is where an ethnic group of people lived called the Black Sea Germans (aka Russian-Germans). They were German in ethnicity, spoke German and lived a German lifestyle in Russia. I descend from that ethnic group, which is why I was shocked to see that particular area's name within his book. Majority of those who lived there were Protestant, but there were some Roman Catholics within the ethnic group. Many from the group moved to the Dakotas, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, but I was not sure for Illinois.
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Who knows Ven. Sheen might mention it or just hint at it because it was so ingrained into his spirituality that he did not think to mention it in such grand details. Plus, I forget how diocesan priests go through formation for the Order. Also, their obedience is to their Dioceses and not to the Providence Leadership of the Order, if I am correct. Forgive me for ranting.."
OK, at least I didn't miss it. I'll have see if it comes up. He was the perfect Dominican.
The bios of Bl. Pier Giorgio Frassati don't mention he was a Third Order Dominican? How ridiculous is that? That was so much part of his life. Thanks.
Well, it doesn't help he wrote little about it and he was known to be more contemplative and kept to himself on many matters. Such as his wanting to pursue a relationship with a good Catholic girl, but by obedience to his parents (who would have went against the match) never went through to tell her. Only a few (I think 2 people) knew of his sorrow and pain in that event. (The girl did not even know until he passed away.) He is, Ven. Sheen was a possible patron for me when I was choosing my religious name within in the Lay Dominicans.
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If I had read this bio earlier, I might have considered him for a religious name too. As it is I'm going to celebrate when he finally gets canonized.
Thanks for such wonderful commentary and opinions! Nikita, I also highlighted several of the passages you mentioned, including that first one in your post: "lower nature had fallen through man, it was fitting that all lower nature should be reconciled to God through man. That is why there was an Incarnation instead of pantheism." That statement really moved me (as do many others in the book). And Manny, I've always thought of Sheen as being in the traditionalist camp, yet he also makes statements that call both sides to task. I may be ahead of the reading so will shut up about that right now, and will revisit later. (Nikita, I incorrectly responded to the Chapter 5 passage on youth in the comments for Chapters 1 to 4. I agree with what he wrote).Never knew that Martin Sheen took his name in honor of Ven. Fulton Sheen. How wonderful!
Another thing I marveled at, was how thoroughly he prepared for his lectures and broadcasts, including by rehearsing them in languages other than English. But what stays with me more is how much Sheen encountered an overall hunger for faith among people who heard those lectures and broadcasts. In Chapter 6, he says "So many wrote to me expressing interest in the Church or searching for the gift of faith." He explains that he used two approaches - direct, on radio, and indirect, on television. "The direct was the presentation of Christian doctrine in plain, simple terms. On television, I depended more on the grace of God and less on myself. If the subject of the telecast was flying, I might end it by talking about angels." Archbishop Barron is someone who today uses plain, simple terms to present doctrine. I wonder if he, too, encounters that hunger among his listeners.
Prophetically, I think, Sheen looked ahead to a third approach "to an electronic audience which will be in the future." (Location 1012 in my Kindle. It's in Chapter 6). Listen to what he says:
"It will not always be direct, nor even the indirect which I used. ... it will not start with the order in the universe alluding to the existence of a Creator of the cosmos; it will start with the disorder inside of man himself. It will take all the findings of our psychological age and use them as a springboard for the presentation of Divine Truths."
Today, more than ever, the disorder inside of people is so evident. You see it everywhere you turn, in hatefulness, violence, etc. that is in the news, TV, movies, etc. Sheen wrote that he wished he were younger so he might use the third approach "... namely, starting with the unhappiness inside the human heart." To me, this is an important angle to consider when trying to reach others as part of the new evangelization. Yet how do you reach people you think might be hungering for greater truths when they say they think religion and/or the idea of God is stupid?
I agree there is still a tendency for many today to go with whatever is popular. I see that in the way many churches, not just Catholic, try to mimic popular culture. In my heart, I feel it doesn't work, although I'm no expert on youth evangelization. Why have a rock band at worship when beautiful Gregorian chant might have more impact on those who are searching? Look how popular Taize is. Taize mixes the ancient with the modern. I write as someone who doesn't self-identify as either traditionalist or modern/liberal Catholic, but who is somewhere in between.
Honestly, politics always gives me a headache so I didn't take too many notes on Chapter 7, but I did notice Sheen's statement on how "atheism and the economics of communism are inseparable." I was surprised at how many people of the time were unwilling to make any criticism of Russia because of political alliances.
I am running out of steam here, but just want to comment on something in Chapter 8 that especially stood out for me: "... the test of worth is not how long we served, or how much we did, but whether or not the people in our charge remember the Bishop as one who is Christ among them.". It reminds me of one of my favorite sayings, attributed to St. Francis. Not sure if he really said it, but it is a guide I follow: Preach the Gospel at all times; use words if necessary."
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I was blown away by that too, Gerri. It demonstrates how much work goes into making these presentations look effortless and still have real, tangible substance.
As a rule I am not a fan of priests giving their homilies without notes. The overwhelming majority of them are less than they could be, only stir the surface. I much rather have them read from the page when the carefully formulated thoughts give us real substance. I suspect most parish priests simply don't have the time it takes or don't have the aptitude to be natural orators.
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Good question! I would start with challenging them if they actually know what they are talking about. Are they just repeating what so-called authorities in the media and academia are presenting to them. Is what they have been taught true? The Christian faith, Catholicism and it's 2,000 year history are a large comprehensive body of knowledge, and how much time have they spent sincerely studying it? It is my experience, and don't think I am alone, that those who dismiss religion the most are usually the ones who know the least about it. This needs to be pointed out and at the same time gently and generously fill them in on whatever they wish to know.
Here is one thing that I learned from our last read, Pascendi Dominici Gregis, is that in today's culture religion is firmly placed the realm of the sentiments - as opposed to "objective" science. I sort of knew that, but St. Pius X deliberately pointed out and picked it apart, made the reader understand that our revealed religion is nothing like what our culture peddles and dismisses it to be.
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Oh man! This is one of the biggest pet peeves I have!!! I sing in the choir, and whenever Marty Haugen , David Haas, et. al. are in the line-up I want to jump out of my skin. When I was Lutheran the music was reverential and sacred and the theology was wonky. As a Catholic the theology is right but the secular, emotionalist kumbaya-pop ditties and commercial jingles could drive one literally insane. I don't know if you read Anthony Esolen's articles, but he has written scathing articles of the insipid nature of the music used in many parishes. Ok, I'll stop ranting now...
Interestingly enough, it is very well documented that people from all walks of life are drawn in to the sacredness of Gregorian Chant, many have been converted. Sames goes for Bach's Mass in B Minor. Authentically sacred music feeds the soul spiritually in a way secular music never will. When young people are introduced to this type of music they are usually blown away - according to the articles I've read. They didn't even know such exalted music existed and they question why our parishes don't have it.
To me Joseph Ratzinger was very helpful in understanding what's going on here. In his book The Spirit of the Liturgy he goes into the history of sacred music over the centuries. He says that there has always been a cross-pollination of secular and sacred music from age to age. There were and are particular times when secular music massively infiltrated sacred music and profaned the liturgy, and the Church eventually had to clean it up. Since the 1960s we have had such a massive infiltration of secular music. There are parishes who have cleaned this up, have gotten rid of the guitars and drums, but we still have much work to do.
Kerstin wrote: "Gerri wrote: "Why have a rock band at worship when beautiful Gregorian chant might have more impact on those who are searching?"Oh man! This is one of the biggest pet peeves I have!!! I sing in t..."
I just spent a lovely weekend at our parish CHRP retreat, and the adoration chapel played Gregorian chant in the background. I grew up with this music, and didn't realize how much I had missed it until it resurfaced a few years ago. There is a parish in our area that is exclusively Latin Mass, and I'm sure Gregorian chant must be part of that, but I'm told that it is a very vigorous and strong parish, mostly young families who bring babies and toddlers to Mass. I hope to visit it before long. I do like the inclusion of some of the old classic hymns, many of which Protestants also use.
I was also impressed by his process for preparing class and TV lectures., especially the process of going from one language to another to ensure he really knew his material.I did not grow up with his programming, nor did my parents who did not grow up with TV. So, I am finding it hard to connect with this autobiography. But, I have begun to read the chapters for next week and his stories of missionary experiences I have found more interesting.
Irene, if YouTube is available to you, you can find many of his old programs there, and possibly on EWTN.
I agree, his shows will give you a good idea of why he was/is so popular. Much of what he said then is still very, very relevant today. You have to overlook the 1950s production quality and the dated references of the broadcasts. They were re-runs even when I watched them in the late 1960s. But you'll learn a lot from him.This next is off-topic, but continues the music conversation. Kerstin, I remember how shocked I was to hear guitars at a then-called Folk Mass as the changes of Vatican II were going into effect. I was in 5th or 6th grade and was horrified. While I - then and now - appreciate use of the vernacular for most of the Mass, my heart remains with sacred music. Over the past couple of years, my parish has returned to using chant in a some parts of the liturgy. The congregational response - also in chant - is stronger than it is when we sing. It's wonderful. Of course, I attend what is unofficially known in the parish as the "gray-hair Mass" so not sure how the youth respond during the Masses more popular with families.
Well, I mis-posted. I was speaking to my mother last evening on the phone and mentioned that I am reading this biography. She told me that she remembered watching him on TV. It would have been when she was a young adult, still living at home prior to marriage. She said that my grandfather loved him. I don't recall them speaking much about his influence on them.
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I did not grow up with..."
Yes, as a person who hs such difficulties with a foreign language, I have absolutely no talent there at all, I found his delivering his lectures in another language to be incredible!
Gerri wrote: "...what is unofficially known as the 'gray-hair Mass...'"In my part of Texas, I am hearing that the Latin Mass, chant and all, have become very popular with younger Catholics. We have a parish in Irving offering a full schedule of Latin Masses, and one attendee described it as filled with young families and "babies, many babies..." In our own parish we have a newly ordained young assistant priest who chants the parts that we respond to and we chant back. I believe the pendulum may be swinging back on Pope Francis as younger Catholics rediscover the beauty of our traditions.
I had not heard of him being a third order Dominican. I do know that he was a third order Carmelite and had a wonderful devotion to St. Therese.
I, too, was astounded by the preparation that went into his teachings. Most impressive to me is that all of his sermons were prepared in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, " a lover always works better when the Beloved is with him." I think this should be a great example for priests, receiving inspiration from the Divine. On a personal note, I know that I, also, should spend more time in adoration, using as my example Ven. Sheen, St. John Paul II, St. Teresa of Calcutta and so many others.
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The book Archbishop Fulton Sheen's St. Therese: A Treasured Love Story talks about him being a Third Order Carmelite. He was professed as a member of Secular Carmelites (Lay Third Order of Carmel) on July 17, 1948 according to the Archbishop Fulton Sheen Spiritual Center.
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Lisa, thank you, you are absolutely right! He was a third order Carmelite. He could not have been a Lay Dominican. Here is the link to his dates:
http://archbishopfultonsheencentre.co...
It does say he was a Knight of Columbus, but that's a fraternal organization, not a religious order. Where did he find the time for all this?
On a lighter note, I had to laugh out loud over his story of the exploding toilets. I was once criticized by a professor for not taking myself seriously enough. Now, five decades later, I'm not sorry for it. Two quotes from his subsequent reflections on his first experience of teaching philosophy help me explain why: "it is the business of a professor to complicate the simple ordinary things of life!" And " ...I learned that sometimes when you are confusing, you are mistaken for being learned. " Give me this saintly Bishop and his sense of humor over any fool who takes himself too seriously due to a misplaced sense of self-importance. The latter are more dangerous, I think.
Madeleine, I also appreciate his sense of humor. If anybody might have had reason to succumb to self-importance, you'd think it could have been him. But no. Manny, I also can't understand how Sheen found the time to do everything he did.
Madeleine, I've heard of the popularity of the Latin Mass in some places but haven't witnessed it myself. I grew up with the Latin Mass. The holy sacrifice of the Mass became much more meaningful to me when it switched to English. That said, I appreciate how chant has been returned to the Mass, thanks to Pope Francis's encouragement and also to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's encouragement. I sometimes wonder if what people really miss are the sense of mystery, more formal atmosphere, more ornate vestments, incense, chanting, etc. of the Latin Mass, and not the Latin itself. Makes me wonder if the Church could find a middle ground.
Gerri said: I sometimes wonder if what people really miss... " I do think that's a large part of the renewed interest in traditional liturgy. Even as a child, I had no problem conducting myself reverently even if I didn't know what was going on. But my own children were restless and my grandchildren even more so until they were old enough to get the idea. The conduct of many adults doesn't help. The last time we attended Easter Vigil, when the church went dark was always an occasion for reverence and anticipation. But at least a half dozen people in the pews around us had their cellphones out and lit up. I can remember one advantage of the Latin Mass that no other church could claim. For one who habitually attended Mass, and long enough to understand it, whether or not you had to learn Latin in school, you could go anywhere in the world and follow along and respond. (Though the homily might be another issue.). I agree, there should be a way to compromise with the best of both.
What really attracts me to the Latin Mass is the reverence that I experience.
Madeleine and Lisa, you both make really important points. I, too, had the sense of reverence even when small and at times uncertain about what was going on. The adults around me were always reverent, too. I'd have a hard time refraining from judgment if I saw cell phones lighting up during the holy darkness of the Easter Vigil!!
You know, lack/loss of reverence is something we all can address in small ways, I mean by encouraging others to regain it. I'm going to study ways that can be expressed to others politely.
Gerri, it was really hard to refrain from saying what I thought. I did give them one of those "looks" we high school teachers learn to cultivate. But we haven't gone back, as much as I loved the service. In our huge parish, they do the baptisms during Easter vigil and that year there were 40! being baptized, and the service lasted 3 hours, a bit too long for us oldsters. I'd like to try next year in a smaller parish, maybe.I agree we need to find small ways to address the lack of reverence. People are told to turn off their devices, and priests sometimes address the behaviors. Our pastor has made clear he has a pet peeve with people leaving at communion. There was a major emptying of back rows before he brought it up. Now most people stay at least until the final hymn starts.
Madeleine wrote: "Gerri, it was really hard to refrain from saying what I thought. I did give them one of those "looks" we high school teachers learn to cultivate. But we haven't gone back, as much as I loved the se..."The last few year, I have gone to the Easter Vigil at our local Poor Clare Monastery. It is a beautifully reverent Mass with all the readings, but much shorter as no one seems to get baptized at the Poor Clares. Also, it helps me feel closer to my son as he celebrates with his fellow monks in Wyoming.
Mod
Another thing that needs improving is dress. People show up in (ripped) jeans or shorts and printed T-shirts, etc., etc. That's not reverential. The Mass is a wedding banquet. Now most people would never dream of showing up in super casual to a wedding...
Gerri wrote:"Another thing that needs improving is dress."
Absolutely. Before Vatican II, people wore "Sunday best," Men wore suits or at least ties and dress shirts; women, dresses, good shoes. hats or veils. All contributing to our sense of reverence. Pastors could do much here by preaching modesty. Modesty. Another concept that seems to have fallen by the wayside in our culture, even in Church. The sexual revolution sought to do away with chastity altogether, and it is succeeding.
Lisa, how wonderful that your son is a monk! Kerstin, I agree that another thing that needs improving is dress. And Madeleine, you are right that modesty has fallen by the wayside and one way it shows up is in the way people dress. I don't blame that on Vatican II, though. I blame it on secular society. After Vatican II, we dressed just as modestly and in "Sunday best" as we did before Vatican II.
Geri, it truly is and Fr. Prior assured me that I now have 20 + Carmelite sons. However, there are times I just wish he could be here with me instead of behind the walls of the cloister. Fortunately, I can always be with him in the Eucharist!
Catholic Thought
Books mentioned in this topic
Archbishop Fulton Sheen's St. Therese: A Treasured Love Story (other topics)Archbishop Fulton Sheen's St. Therese: A Treasured Love Story (other topics)
The Spirit of the Liturgy (other topics)
Pascendi Dominici Gregis (other topics)
Chapter 5, “Teaching and Lecturing”:
Bishop Sheen provides some of his 25 year history as a teacher, passes on some of his experience he gained, and some of his teaching methods.
Chapter 6, “The Electric Gospel”:
Bishop Sheen describes his transition to radio and television, his preparation techniques, and how his American audience embraced him.
Chapter 7, “Communism”:
Bishop Sheen describes the rise of communism in the middle decades of the 20th century and some of his encounters with communists.
Chapter 8, “Desiring the Episcopacy”:
Sheen provides details on how he became a bishop from being director of the Society of the Propagation of the Faith and he provides some insight to into the life and workings of bishops in general.