Indian Readers discussion

My post on what is wrong with us

Dear Indian readers

Neither can I completely agree with you nor can I utterly disagree. Indian Literature, that you primarily talk about, has always been inventive and innovative. We haven't lost it in any way. Just that over the years the likes of authors, the ones whose books are set in malls, college campuses et al and the same authors we cannot stop discussing and love to debate about have occluded the vision of an essential reader. It is wrong to say that India authors are only producing trash literature. Do we honestly know the sheer number of books published in the other countries, a handful of which reach us? Every other book is a New York Times Best-seller; likewise it isn't uncommon to find a fine print on the jackets of many books authored by Indian authors a best-seller. Pulp fiction is a borrowed term.

How can we forget authors like Kiran Desai, Manu Joseph, Jeet Thayil, Devdutt Pattanaik et al! Each of these authors are trying their utmost to make a difference, upload the flag of literary revolution. Also, the number of cities that host Literary events accentuate this. It was Calcutta a long time ago. Now we have amazing Lit Fests at Bangalore, Delhi, Jaipur to the lesser known Shillong. We should we proud :)

It isn't uncommon to find an Indian author or an author of Indian origin to be long-listed (short-listed) for some the prestigious book awards. (Now the genuineness of these award ceremonies is another story altogether) Simultaneously, a legion of Indian readers, I have come across love devoting their reading hours to 'serious' work authored by diligent Indian authors.

As far as Indian cinema is concerned, undeniably the commercial ones use the '100 crore' mark to herald it a block-buster, but cinemas like 'Finding Fanny', 'Haider' do not witness empty screens.

It all boils down to entertainment, different for each individual.

Honestly, life is too stressful in India to read something heavy always. Light fiction fills the gap ... maybe not very well ... but it will do ...

@ Naveen , seeing the books churned out dime a dozen nowadays , I do agree with you.
But fortunately , as Parikhit mentioned there are a few gems which are lost among all these rabble .
Unfortunately people can't be forced to read better. They choose books according to their intellect levels . Those who feel they are being underestimated as readers move on to better books by trial and error .
I have tried making my relatives and friends interested in better books (according to me) but have been tactfully shielded.

@Biswanath , you may post this in book reviews thread. You may reach a larger audience .

Parikhit wrote: "Neither can I completely agree with you nor can I utterly disagree. Indian Literature, that you primarily talk about, has always been inventive and innovative. We haven't lost it in any way. Just t..."

I am not saying all writers produce trash. I am saying readers are mostly celebrating those who do. For example: I haven't even heard about Manu Joseph and Jeet Thayil. If they are good they must be celebrated more or at least recognized more.

Like I said there are some good writers out there like Samit Basu whose work has won numerous awards elsewhere but people hardly know him here.

My main problem is with the massive celebration of the banal and our collective ignorance of the good stuff out there.

That is not to say it happens only in India. Transformers film franchise though universally agreed upon to be dumb and lacking originality still makes a ton of money.

My main concern is if we do not celebrate good fiction how will be people encouraged to produce more good fiction? The more mediocrity is celebrated and accepted, the more it will produced and pumped into the system.

It's only when more voices are heard in support of sensible fiction and against substandard fiction we will be able to move ahead into an age of better entertainment.

PSmith wrote: "@ Naveen , seeing the books churned out dime a dozen nowadays , I do agree with you.
But fortunately , as Parikhit mentioned there are a few gems which are lost among all these rabble ...."

"Tactfully shielded". Haha :D. Happens a lot to me as well.

"I haven't even heard about Manu Joseph and Jeet Thayil."

Isn't that what the other readers also say Naveen? I think we are trying to solve a chicken-egg riddle here. You can't say that an author has to be popular if he is good, and then say that the reader is responsible to make good authors 'popular'

A discerning reader should continuously make efforts to identify authors at least in genres he/she is interested in. If i take pride in being a sci-fi space fiction aficionado, it shames me that i don't know about a certain author in that genre.

As a reader we can't change the likes/dislikes of other readers, but we can continuously make them aware of other remarkable works and give them a wider choice pool in the hope that some day they will eventually pick a better book. Off late, I have seen many a campus-romance readers evolving eventually, over time to read better works and those who couldn't evolve totally dropped reading. Let's not worry too much about the big picture here and keep reading and keep sharing especially to the new readers and over a time, they will see the difference. You can't bring about these kind of changes through a mega revolution, a simple act of reading and sharing should help.

So let's do them a favor by clicking on the add book/author button (so that they gain greater recognition by the Goodreads automatic book recommendation software):

Kiran Desai

Jeet Thayil

Sarita Mandanna

Jerry Pinto

Arundhati Roy

Meena Kandasamy

Aditya wrote: ""I haven't even heard about Manu Joseph and Jeet Thayil."

Isn't that what the other readers also say Naveen? I think we are trying to solve a chicken-egg riddle here. You can't say that an author ..."

I think we both are saying the same thing Aditya. I think my wording was a bit confusing. What I meant was these writers are good but because of the unfair system, a reader such as I haven't even heard of them even though they deserve to be heard.

I used the fact that I don't know these writers to illustrate the point that many writers though very good are not being given their share of limelight. Hope its clear now.

Lakshmi wrote: "So let's do them a favor by clicking on the add book/author button (so that they gain greater recognition by the Goodreads automatic book recommendation software):

..."

Great

Here are some more writers that deserve more recognition
Samit Basu
Shamik Dasgupta
Arnab Ray
Shiv Ramdas

Naveen, am only pointing out that the fact that we haven't heard about a certain author also says something about our deficiency, rather than the lack of book's popularity.

@Lakshmi, thanks a ton for the list - 2 new authors for me in there, Sarita Mandanna and Meena Kandasamy...am desperately trying to get to the Gypsy Goddess books page, but goodreads unexpected error is haunting me. Sarita's Tiger Hills sounds interesting!

Aditya wrote: "Naveen, am only pointing out that the fact that we haven't heard about a certain author also says something about our deficiency, rather than the lack of book's popularity.

@Lakshmi, thanks a ton ..."
Definitely agree.

Also any of the writers we are discussing need not be exceptionally good. All I am looking for is something different and original.
As long as a writer is trying to push the boundaries of conventional literature and what is usually popular, he/she deserves to be noticed.

Aditya wrote: "Naveen, am only pointing out that the fact that we haven't heard about a certain author also says something about our deficiency, rather than the lack of book's popularity.

@Lakshmi, thanks a ton ..."

Odd error ... try clicking the book cover below ...

Moral of the story, Naveen, is why we have groups like IR. I have personally discovered amazing books through all the discussions and group meets here.

As an Indian author, it's depressing to see this trend. Unfortunately, the problem is not confined only to India. For example, take a look at the percentage of literary fiction sales on Amazon from The Author Earnings Report (scroll down a bit):
http://authorearnings.com/report/july...

Even if we disagree on the exact definition of literary fiction, it's clear that it's a very small percentage of the market. This creates a dilemma for authors and would-be authors: do we write what we want and languish in obscurity, or do we write what the market demands and try to make a living?

What is missing is a reader friendly atmosphere ? I don't have to tell you about the noise pollution, dusty environment, livelihood issues, etc. in India. At least ereaders have taken the strain out of reading. Anyway, if you are scanning the literary sections in the Sunday papers or online, you should be able to stay fairly up to date.

Thanks Lakshmi, got it now, bought the ebook too :)

Ken wrote: "As an Indian author, it's depressing to see this trend. Unfortunately, the problem is not confined only to India. For example, take a look at the percentage of literary fiction sales on Amazon from..."

Hi Ken, I am an author as well and my debut novel recently hit the market. At this point it is too soon to say if I will be a victim or a beneficiary of the current trend but yes - the dilemma is ever existent.

I was speaking to one of the leading comic book writers of India about this exact same thing and he voiced similar opinion about how many big companies (if not authors) become a sell out over the course of time.
Richard Branson's Virgin comics started out as a way to transform Indian comics and showed unlimited potential and promise with some of the best writers and artists of our time ... but it didn't sell. Virgin pulled the plug and then got acquired by liquid comics or something. It was sad to see so much potential going wasted.

But the good thing is many writers like the one I spoke to said that they understand that majority of the people need instant gratification and so they are trying to pander to their needs but without being a total sell out. Sticking the core themes.

This is a beginning and it will take some time but I am hopeful things will change over time.

Parikhit wrote: "Moral of the story, Naveen, is why we have groups like IR. I have personally discovered amazing books through all the discussions and group meets here."

Glad to be a part of it :) Hoping to find some great books through the group too.

Lakshmi wrote: "What is missing is a reader friendly atmosphere ? I don't have to tell you about the noise pollution, dusty environment, livelihood issues, etc. in India. At least ereaders have taken the strain ou..."

Yes Lakshmi .. that's definitely a factor. But sadly this is not limited to reading. Other entertainment media like movies also suffer from the same case despite not having the same limitations of a reader friendly environment.
Movies like Chennai Express, Dhoom 3 and Transformers still are widely popular in spite of offering very little in terms of originality.

Okay I'd like to make two commonly overlooked points that nonetheless have a significant weight in this discussion:

1. The language barrier - Think about this: how many Indians know (proper)English? And then, what is the market for books in regional languages. I have been looking for decent books in Hindi for my mother and have come up with nothing. She's already read all of Premchand and those older authors so I could not give her those. Since when has it become a pre-requisite for an author to know English. And when such a huge part of society is creatively dormant, what else can be expected?

Another facet to this is 'Tradition and history'. In many ways, I think we Indians still aspire to be like the Westerners and, in doing so, overlook our own rich history and traditions. We have so many wars to talk about, so much politics, such varied culture and mythology, the list is infinite... and I'd love to read about any of these. We need more Rohinton Mistry(s) and Devdutt Pattanaik(s).

2. This is going to be pretty cliche but I still think it's a governing factor - Engineers and Doctors. Where I grew up, this is basically what the definition of education is. So when most of the parents are continuously nudging their children in just one direction, they can't even look around and consider other choices because those are pre-labeled 'hobbies'. Most of us realize what we're actually interested in after college and by that time the friction involved in changing the stream is too high already. Think of all the potential authors - or designers or producers, all of these - going to waste here.

Oh and I don't think the future is all bleak. As others have pointed out, there are a few gems out there already, and I have my fingers crossed for more.

Tulika wrote: "Okay I'd like to make two commonly overlooked points that nonetheless have a significant weight in this discussion:

1. The language barrier - Think about this: how many Indians know (proper)Englis..."

In mytho, the Mahabharata is the flavor of the season. I found 2 new authors.

Krishna Udayasankar

J.A. Joshi

Tulika wrote: "Okay I'd like to make two commonly overlooked points that nonetheless have a significant weight in this discussion:

1. The language barrier - Think about this: how many Indians know (proper)Englis..."

Great points Tulika.
Regarding the books based on mythology, I sort-of took an off-beat path and went with Indra in my debut novel Vajra.

VAJRA

I want to see more modern re-interpretations of these myths in a completely different settings when compared to their original settings rather than a retelling of the same myths again.

For example the comic book Virulents takes the myth of Raktabeej and ties it to a zombie-survival horror.
"18 days" by Grant Morrison tries to re-imagine Mahabharatha as a futuristic sc-fi techno thriller.

For my second novel I am trying to deal with myth of Kalki in a post apocalyptic setting. Below is the premise

Premise

Lakshmi wrote: "Tulika wrote: "Okay I'd like to make two commonly overlooked points that nonetheless have a significant weight in this discussion:

1. The language barrier - Think about this: how many Indians know..."

Thanks a lot Lakshmi. You introduced me to a lot of new authors through this thread :)

If you have enjoyed The Mahabharata Secret, you may also enjoy this particular excerpt from The Awakening of a Warrior: Past Lives of a Navy Seal Remembered :

https://web.archive.org/web/201408021...

It's interesting when people try to put mytho into a historical perspective and end up proving that mythology is history as well as provide an interesting explanation of what actually happened. (The above two books claim that the real Mahabharata is actually a techno thriller !)

@Naveen

IMHO, there is a huge market for books like VAJRA in the West.

One more writer :

Joydeep Roy-Bhattacharya

Lakshmi wrote: "@Naveen

IMHO, there is a huge market for books like VAJRA in the West."

Fortunately or unfortunately VAJRAis geared more towards Indian audience in its narrative and some of its references. I think most people in West would not get some of the quotes or references used in the book.

I'm a debut (unpublished, but still trying) author myself. What I have conjectured from prevailing reviews is that intelligent readers are now sick and tired of the colloquial language-based novels churned out in the market. The subject (campus/corporate based love stories etc.) might not need change, but improvement in language is absolutely necessary. My debut novel is a campus based story with emphasis on adventures, escapades, friendship, academic challenges, and infatuation rather than being stitched on merely love. Withal, I've worked assiduously to ensure that the language is good and sufficient literary descriptions (of environments, places etc.) are included. Hope my novel sees the light of day so that you all can review it..

@Naveen

Was VAJRA influenced in any way by books like Thundergod - The Ascendance of Indra ?

@Pankaj

If you work hard and have the talent you can do it. Remember how Alfonso Cuarón brought the magic back to the Harry Potter series in the third instalment ?

Lakshmi wrote: "@Naveen

Was VAJRA influenced in any way by books like Thundergod - The Ascendance of Indra ?

@Pankaj

If you work hard and have the talent you can do it. Remember ..."

No .. I had no prior knowledge of this book.
But looking at the description of the book ... looks like the similarities end at Indra.

Ragiv's book seems to be in the same vein as the Shiva trilogy as in .. it looks like a retelling of the myth of Indra which is set in ancient times.

Vajra on the other hand is a complete re-interpretation, set in contemporary times and takes the myth of Indra and puts a sci-fi spin on it but ultimately is a mystery thriller influenced by works like the TV show LOST and the graphic novel Watchmen.

An analogy in terms of Greek mythology would be if Rajiv's book is the "God of war" game, my book would be more along the lines of "Percy Jackson series".
If his book is the Ramanand sagar's Mahabharat mine would be like the film Rajneeti which is inspired by Mahabharat.

Just wondering, anyone here trying writing science fiction for a change.

thanks @Lakshmi

Utkarsh wrote: "Just wondering, anyone here trying writing science fiction for a change."

Hi Utakrsh,

Depends on what your type of sci-fi is. My novel VAJRA can be called loosely sc-fi. Its sci-fi blended in with mythology and mysticism.
It's more of a sci-fi than fantasy anyway.

And my second novel is going to be a dystopian/post apocalyptic story with once again elements of both sci-fi and fantasy thrown in.

Premise for second novel

If it's hard sci-fi (sci-fi through and through) you are looking for, then maybe Domechild by Shiv Ramdas is your choice. Haven't read it but looks like sci-fi.

Tishani Doshi

Ismat Chughtai

Kiran Nagarkar

Lakshmi wrote: " Tishani Doshi

Ismat Chughtai

Kiran Nagarkar"

@Lakhsmi .. great list once again.
This reminds me .. while trying to get my first novel published, I observed that most of the publishers' websites clearly mention that they do not publish poetry at all.
Now I don't read much poetry but isn't poetry considered a very high art form? I think there are a lot of brilliant poets out there who are waiting to be discovered but it would be difficult for them due to the publishing industry's selective bias against poetry because it hardly sells.

Yep ... poetry has got it worse than literature ... which brings us back to the subject of your rant ...

and, yes, @Lakshmi, I agree.. I still feel that prisoner of Azkaban was the best Harry potter movie.. dark and intriguing..

Pankaj wrote: "and, yes, @Lakshmi, I agree.. I still feel that prisoner of Azkaban was the best Harry potter movie.. dark and intriguing.."

I am still bowled over by the filmmaker's craft. His recent Oscar for Gravity is richly deserved. I wish I had seen it in IMAX.

Yes, I wish it too.. the other Harry Potter movies seemed to be a trifle rushed.. the book was certainly curtailed and scenes were happening too fast for my liking.. no time to absorb and savor the scenes unlike the books however (which were brilliant).. even if I manage to replicate a tiny percentage of that for the Campus Novels genre it would be satisfying.. the actual Campus Novels genre (à la Five Point Someone), not the prevalent Love Story genre..

Pankaj wrote: "Yes, I wish it too.. the other Harry Potter movies seemed to be a trifle rushed.. the book was certainly curtailed and scenes were happening too fast for my liking.. no time to absorb and savor the..."

Two tips for great writing :

1. Write in verse form, then translate it into prose. You get great literature.

2. If you know how to keep your friends hanging on to your every word, then you already know how to tell a great story - like Stephen King.

Talking of genre fiction here:

More than having garrulous pages describing places, environment etc., it is the way you describe them and the value-add to the story you are trying to tell. Intelligent readers try to not just relate their life to the incidents in the book. They would want the book to be thought provoking, to be left in a hangover sorts in its aftermath. Ex: Nishant Kaushik's A Romance with Chaos. Written 5 years ago, am yet to come across one good contemporary metro read that's written half as well.

@Lakshmi, I believe dementors are one of the best characters created by JKR - plain, pure sadness trying to fill the voids of a broken heart. I agree Alfonso did a brilliant job showing that in the Prisoner of Azkaban!

I also feel the whole re-imagining of mythology is being overdone by our publishing industry now. Too much chest thumping of the glorious past, rich mythology ... blah blah blah. As re-hashes go, Kushwanth Singh's re-imagining of the Mughal rule in India is far more entertaining i must say - in "Delhi, A novel"

Aditya wrote: "Talking of genre fiction here:

More than having garrulous pages describing places, environment etc., it is the way you describe them and the value-add to the story you are trying to tell. Intellig..."

Have you noticed that mytho re-imaginations are targetted at the YA market. That market is really huge !

From the point of view of a reader, I go mainly by rapport these days. For example, Ramiah Ariya is not well known but I enjoy his fiction.

For me Prisoner of Azkaban is the best.. both in terms of novel and the movie.
Felt Goblet of fire is the weakest movie and Order of phoenix/Half blood prince are the weaker books.

And coming to language and passages, I feel it's the usage and not the words that matter.
A good writer while armed with a good vocabulary will use this appropriately giving a sense of smooth narrative flow.
A writer using vocabulary just for the sake of using fancy words in an attempt to show off his good vocabulary will not achieve the same result and would end up with a prose which is sometimes clunky.

I personally feel there are only 'good sentences' and 'good phrases'... but no 'good words'

You can see an old sample of Cuarón's wizardry here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBQ2Q...

This is from a children's film he made way back in 1995. Probably why he was selected to take a shot at the Harry Potter franchise after the first director stepped down.

When I read Goblet of Fire, I felt that the entire series should have ended with the dragon scene. What came after was a drag and I still haven't read the 7th book yet. Luna Lovegood was a welcome addition to the series.

I agree with @Aditya, the dementors in Azkaban were far more sinister than the stupid clones in subsequent movies.. and @Naveen yes, a combination of good vocabulary n context is necessary.. it's difficult to get it right, especially for debut writers.. but nowadays mostly authors don't even try to include good vocabulary.. they simply write like jotting Facebook updates and proudly proclaim that their book doesn't have literary content to make it crowd accessible.. people who try should be appreciated but also given positive criticism for improvement..

Pankaj wrote: "I agree with @Aditya, the dementors in Azkaban were far more sinister than the stupid clones in subsequent movies.. and @Naveen yes, a combination of good vocabulary n context is necessary.. it's d..."

Yes those who try should definitely be encouraged.

Btw all the best for your novel Pankaj. Waiting to get published takes a lot of patience and can be tiring at times. But hold on to it, cherish these moments and never lose hope. First novel will always remain special.

Looking forward to reading your novel once it is out. I hope it rekindles the merit in campus fiction :)

Lakshmi wrote: "You can see an old sample of Cuarón's wizardry here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBQ2Q...

This is from a children's film he made way back in 1995. Probably why he was selected to take a sho..."

I feel the 7th book sort of redeems the series. I remember enjoying it a lot more than the 5th and 6th books. It ties in everything on a whole new level.