Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

~1930's Classic Howard


Robert E. Howard's genuine Conan or Kull or Bran or Agnes: The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, Kull: Exile of Atlantis, Bran Mak Morn: The Last King, or Sword Woman and Other Historical Adventures

I recently finished The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, and I've been simultaneously reading SSOC, A Word From the Outer Dark, One Who Walked Alone, Index to One Who Walked Alone and Day of the Stranger, and plan to begin the Berkley Skull-Face soon, so guess I'm in this one!

I can’t recommend David C. Smith’s Literary Biography of REH enough as a companion to this group read.

Err, “I can’t recommend it ENOUGH”

Those are all excellent collections.

Totally digging my re-read of Crimson Shadows: The Best of Robert E. Howard Volume 1

Any favorite stories, or favorite moments within the stories?

Sure. Having read David C. Smith’s Literary Biography of REH, I’m paying attention to REH’s use of repetition in his writing, as well as his use of color. Example:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I finished Bran Mak Morn: The Last King and thought it was a solid collection of stories, the standouts being the obvious suspects of Kings of the Night and Worms of the Earth.

Hey Clint, can you expand on REH uses of color that you (and David Smith) mention?

I can, but it will take some thought

I’m still reading volume 1 of The Best of Robert E Howard Crimson Shadows.

Granted, I’m not yet taking volume 2 into account; however, while I (as an REH fan) am enjoying it, I don’t think it would be a good book to hand to an REH newb.

Which got me thinking: narrow it to four stories (yes ignore poetry and letters for now). Four stories that you would hand to someone totally new to REH and say “read these. These are why I am an REH fan”.

Which four stories do you choose and why?

Great idea clint!
1- Tower of the Elephant - this was the first time I read a Conan tale that had a weird-fiction flavor; it had a balance of adventure, fighting, and cosmic flare that I had never experienced before--it was like Lovecraft with swords

2- Red Nails - it's one of REH's longer novellas, I recall. The exploration of ruins (decayed civilization) and two major, antagonistic cultures/groups within Xuchotl. Again there was something unique about the balance in there: horror, adventure, pseudo-history/archeology with sorcery.

3- Worms of the Earth - for me, it was one of my first non-Conan, REH tales. I was impressed to learn of Bran Mak Morn and was endeared with his doomed role as leader of a dying clan subject to "civil" Rome and "weird" creatures

4-The House in the Oaks - well once I found out REH could write horror/weird fiction I was even more enamored with his work. I have an obsession with "beautiful" weird/art (see http://www.selindberg.com/p/interview... interiews :). This tale involves Art Theory and a Haunted House--right up my alley.

So I am very interested in any insight from David C Smith on REH and color!

Anyway, what are your 4?

Clint wrote: "Four stories that you would hand to someone totally new to REH and say “read these. These are why I am an REH fan”."

Cool idea. Probably in this order too.

1 - "Vultures of Wahpeton" ~ Corcoran is simply terrific as the lone badass killer who agrees first to be a lawman, then to be a thief, then to avenge a girl and rides off into the sunset angry, alone, and absolutely still a badass. A great Western and proof REH was more than Conan.

2 - "Queen of the Black Coast" ~ It might be a little too-much in the face for some newbies with its dancing naked heroine and overtly sexed-up opening, but ultimately this is my favorite Conan tale that simply drips with the raw intensity of the man, with the bonus of the raw intensity of the woman as well. This tale sings with vitality and life despite dipping low into mourning before surging upward into a full embrace of living loud and large whilst one can.

3 - "Kings of the Night" ~ Kull in full glory, only a trace of his philosophical examination of what-is and/or what-is-not-yet to slow things down. This is a great tale displaying the might of Kull of eons gone brought forward to aide Bran in a desperate fight with supposed allies and countless foes. This story shares the glory of Kull the warrior-king with the glorious goal of Bran the lonely-king and adds Vikings and Celts and Roman-killing!

4 - "Iron Shadows in the Moon" ~ There are other tales I could have chosen, but I decided to run with this one, as it is an exquisite example of short story S&S action. If our new-to-Howard reader hasn't caught on by now there probably is no hope, so what's to be lost, eh? Instead, I'll go for the gusto and share this one, a tale with one of the best opening sequences of all time: the raw energy of terror, lust, madness, blood, flight, death, delivered in a dramatic sensory intensity of psychology. This is a prime S&S tale of survival; all else that happened was secondary.

REH’s use of color: so I spent time trying to find a snazzy quote by Smith, and I know one exists, but the best I could find (paraphrasing): REH writes in Technicolor.

It’s true of some of his best writing. Much has been said of his literary style, but not too much has been said of his use of color. It’s not something he always does, but REH will pick a pallet for his stories and using repetition of those colors he “paints” a picture.

He might choose red and gray (and I don’t know if it’s something he intended, most likely he is describing how he sees something in his imagination). He will repeat the use of the colors on his chosen pallet throughout his descriptions. He does it well in “Red Shadows”. Typically, I’ve noticed his chosen pallet consists of one, two at most, colors and perhaps a few variant shades of.

Back in the 70's Andrew J. Offutt wrote a short story that was published as a chapbook called The Black Sorcerer of the Black Castle. In it he makes a parody of how often Howard uses synonyms of the color black.

Cool! I’m rereading Solomon Kane’s Red Shadows now....

And Richard! You lured me into getting Offutt’s parody.

God, so many...

"Queen of the Black Coast" Howard's prose at its best, and while modernJ-types might rankle at the over sexuality and the portrayal of the black sailors, I think that's an unfair assessment of this story which just drips with mood, is one of the few times that Howard addresses love, and just drips with sorrow and tragedy.

"Red Nails" the second best of Conan's female leads (after Belit), an exciting, creepy adventure story, lost kingdoms, madness, monsters -- it is all here and it makes a potent contrast to "Queen".

"The Shadow Kingdom" hands down the best of the Kull stories, the best use of the Serpent folk in any text, and just a perfect example of heroic s&s.

I struggled with #4 between "Hawks Over Egypt"

"The Fire of Asshurbanipal" which showcases the unique way Howard could handle Lovecraft's mythos, though I could be persuaded with several of the Kane stories instead.

Oh, four stories....

1) The People of the Black Circle: My first REH and Conan story and it still sticks in my mind as one of the best of the genre.

2) Worms of the Earth: Just one of the most atmospheric stories I've ever read - possibly REH's masterpiece.

3) Pigeons from Hell: One of REH's most effective horror pieces.

4) "The Bull Dog Breed" to give a sense of Steve Costigan, REH's humor, and his skill at describing boxing matches.

Hmmm … I'm torn because my favorite story is probably "Beyond the Black River", but I'm not sure if that'd be a good one to include as an intro to REH.

If not, I'd probably go with:

1. Tower of the Elephant -- a good introduction to Conan

2. Worms of the Earth (toss-up between this and Kings of the Night

3. Three-Bladed Doom -- El Borak!

4. Shadow of the Vulture -- historical adventure and the original Red Sonya

Ask me again tomorrow and get a completely different list.

these are fun, keep 'em coming!

I have not yet answered my own question because it’s difficult! But here is my shot:

1. The Tower of the Elephant, this is such a great S&S story. It has action, cosmic elements. By far my favorite Conan yarn.

2. The Worms of the Earth, perhaps my favorite REH story period. Horror, vengeance and the consequences of vengeance.

3. Pigeons from Hell, atmospheric horror with Howard’s gift of bringing time and location to life.

4. The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune, really brings the brooding figure of Kull forefront.

I would say 1-3 are always on my list of favorite REH takes, 4+ changes daily.

Thanks to the crew here... I tracked down and read The Black Sorcerer of the Black Castle... what a bunch of BS! (there's a joke in there)

review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

The afterword by offutt reveals the story's evolution. More importantly, it showed how multiple readers/editors preferred a particular balance of humor and action. In fact, offutt confessed he learned via working with BS of his Great Discovery:
"pornography and heroic fantasy have something much in common: both quite for different reasons, need to create a mood and a spell, and to make it last --and neither, can be overwritten.