Catholic Thought discussion

Summary, Chapters 17 thru 20

Chapter 17, “The Second Vatican Council”:
Sheen discusses his involvement with the Second Vatican Council and the Council’s objectives, events, and outcome.

Chapter 18, “The Lighter Side”:
Bishop Sheen speaks of his sense of humor and of a number of amusing events in his life.

Chapter 19, “Things Left Unsaid”:
Bishop Sheen provides his view of internal conflicts and of the importance of silence and restraint.

Chapter 20, “The Woman I Love”:
Bishop Sheen speaks of his love for the Blessed Mother and of her importance in the spiritual life of a Christian.

The chapter on the Vatican II was interesting. I have to learn more about Vatican II. I was surprised at how monolithic the voting turned out. The voting ran roughly 97% yes for all articles. Would we have that today? The recent Amazonian Synod vote was 128-41, which was roughly 76% yes. Perhaps Vatican II was just not as controversial as I thought. The Amazonian Synod was definitely controversial. I thought this paragraph was insightful.

The Vatican Council was held at that period of history when it was necessary to strike a balance between two extremes both in the world and in the Church: individualism and socialism. By individualism I mean the emphasis on the right of the individual either to develop his own spirituality or economically to increase his own capital without much concern for the social good. By socialism I mean the stress on social welfare with little concern for either the individual's religion or his morals.

Here is his summary of the Council’s accomplishments:

What the Council did was establish equilibrium or balance between these extremes—between evangelization and human progress, between soul-winning and society-saving, between divine salvation and human liberation. It made both inseparable. The Council decided that we must beget children of God through evangelization but not without giving witness to fraternal love and a sensitiveness to humanity's desire for freedom and justice. For the first time in the history of all the Councils of the Church, there was a chapter on “The World” in which there was stressed the unity of creation and redemption; and the truth that the dignity and freedom of the human person is inseparable from salvation. It was a master stroke under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that bishops gathered from all over the world could see the new direction the Church must take—which actually was nothing else than the old direction that Christian salvation has an earthly and historical dimension, namely, the relation of the love of God and love of neighbor.

That last sentence kind of make me wince a little. It seems to be implying that the love of neighbor was missing. So the Church did not advocate a love of neighbor before? The Church did not set up hospitals, take care of orphans and feed the hungry before Vatican II? From what I’ve seen historically it seems to me it did quite a bit of it. After all there were no welfare programs. It was the religious institutions, Catholic and others, that took care of the poor. It would not surprise me that as a percentage of money and effort spent, the Churches did more before Vatican II and welfare systems than they do now. That responsibility for the poor has been relieved from the religious institutions with the creation and expansion of welfare programs.

But I’m not going to say I’m an expert.

I was also surprised at how interesting the Vatican II chapter was. I liked the insider perspective Sheen was able to give. Among things I highlighted was this sentence:

"The Holy Eucharist was offered as each day's work was begun and was read in a different Rite every day - which meant that there were many non-Latin chants used in the Eucharistic sacrifices, chants peculiar to different parts of the world."

He makes it sound as though there were a lot of different Rites. How many Rites are there? I truly have no idea. Does anybody know?

It was mind-boggling to think about how the entire Council was conducted in Latin. Sheen writes: "In the Council itself, total freedom of speech was granted, the only restrictions being that the discourse be in Latin ..." I studied Latin in high school. Giving speeches in Latin is not easy! And Sheen said 2,212 speeches were presented during the Council. Also, 147 reports were made, also in Latin.

Manny, I was a child during Vatican II but I believe it was very controversial at the time. Yet I also noted those vote percentages Sheen gave. And despite differences, faith brought participants together. I loved how Sheen said that after Mass each morning ...

"a 15th century New Testament was carried to the main altar through the nave and was solemnly enthroned in a place of honor. The bishops then recited a prayer together and intoned the Creed, which was one of the most moving of the daily events of the Vatican Council. In a world torn by a diversity of creeds it was a daily affirmation for all of us in the faith of the centuries."

So beautiful!

As for Sheen's comments about the balance between saving souls and loving thy neighbor, I don't know. Sheen makes it sound as though the either-or disagreements have been going on far longer than maybe we suspect. Even Sheen said "... it was very difficult to convince either of the two extremes -the conservatives and the worldlings-of how the spiritual and the social were to be combined."

I've never fully read the Vatican II documents but might try to work through them. It's obvious extreme thought went into them. Sheen said they'd discuss various Latin words for a day when searching for a precise meaning, and that debates on each subject went on for months. Of course, some meanings might be obscured in the English translation.

On a different note, I wonder if Sheen used what today would be called "creative nonfiction."

In his chapter about the Blessed Mother, he said he asked her for a specific sign to help him understand if he would get another chance to visit Lourdes. He was in Lourdes at the time.

He asked for a specific sign: that after he said Mass and before he reached the outer gate of the shrine, a girl of about 12, dressed in white, would give him a white rose.

Lo and behold, just as he arrived at the gate, a girl aged 12, in a white dress, gave him the white rose.

That is too perfect to be true!!! What do others think? After reading that, I re-thought about the story in which the Jewish jeweler offered the 30 pieces of silver to the sisters who were turning in their crucifixes. Hmmmmm.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?stor.... Link to a story on the Amazon Synod with some relevant positive comments on Vatican II. A good overview of the current state of our magisterium.

I don’t know, Gerri. Such things do happen. I’d like to share one from my experience.

In my first year teaching I had an adorable ten-year-old boy in my class named Edward Roman. Teachers and children alike loved him. But as the year went on, he became ill. Eventually his parents learned that Edward had a hole in his heart and would need surgery to save his life. On the day of the surgery, the entire student body (Catholic school) prayed for Edward. But, tragically, he died during the operation. We were all devastated.

Afterward, his parents stayed close to me, their son’s last teacher, with the memories of his last year of life. For three or four years we saw one another regularly. Then, I left to teach at another school, and we drifted apart. Fourteen years passed. I married and had two children. Edward Roman and his parents had become a part of my past.

One day, when my son was ten and my daughter, eight, I was driving home from a trip across town when I passed the street down which was the school where I remembered Mrs. Roman had taught. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see her, and to have her meet my children? ? I thought. But, no, I was later than I’d wanted to be, I didn’t even know if she was still teaching . . . And yet, something said to me — I remember it still so clearly — go. And so, I turned back and drove down the street to the school. The teachers inside told me Mrs. Roman did indeed teach there, but she had left for the day. I was disappointed, but not surprised — my visit had been so last minute, she’d had no expectation of ever seeing me again. I took each of my children by the hand and turned to go. Then from down the hall I heard my name called. The voice was unmistakeable.

“Frances! How wonderful to see you! Did you come because today would have been Edward’s twenty-eighth birthday?”

All these years later I still get tears when I remember those words. Something — something apart from myself — had told me to turn back and go to that school on that day. Such things do happen. Others call them coincidence or chance. We call them grace.

Gerri, i believe all the rites were represented at Vatican II. I dont know how many there are. I also believe non Catholic Christian and non Christian religions also participated but i dont think they had a vote.

That's a great story Frances. I guess we've all had experiences like that. But I'm witb Gerri. I could believe a story or two, but Sheen makes it feel like they happened all the time to him. I'm enjoying the stories but I'm taking some with a grain of salt. ;)

I love that story, Frances, and Manny, I believe you are right about Bishop Sheen. I believe this is how the Holy Spirit works in us. Sometimes it can overwhelm us, with a powerful urge like Frances had with Mrs. Roman-- I've had those urges to contact a family member and found him or her seriously ill, but I think, especially if you have a strong prayer life and work to keep yourself aware of God's presence, there are small promoting and signs of we just pay attention. It may be a single word that pokes into our consciousness with a frequency (in my experience, words like "service," "surrender," have seemed to appear noticeably in several places and forced me to pay attention to why that word should matter--God's will for me right now? Something I will need to do soon that I have neglected?) I don't believe in coincidences either, not anymore. Especially when they occur in something I've been praying about.

Frances, what a beautiful and emotional encounter. And very emotional for me. Your story has double relevance for me, as though reminding me the ways of the Lord and his Mother are mysterious and unknown to us. I lost a baby brother many, many, years ago when medical technology wasn't as advanced as today. Little Martin died when he was 4 months old. He had a hole in his heart.

I’m so sorry, Gerri. I think anyone reading your post will empathize and understand. Do you think that today, All Saints’ Day, is little Martin’s feast day?

How sad Gerri. I lost a twin brother, a day after birth. David Bernard. I'm not sure what caused his death, but it was a difficult delivery. They didn't realize my mother was carrying twins. I guess before ultrasound.

Tomorrow is All Souls Day. Say prayers for those little ones too.

I'm so sorry, too, Gerri. My husband and his sister were the only two of six siblings that survived infancy. Jim visited his little brother's grave for the first time at his Dad's funeral, and said he would have loved to have a brother. We lost two of ours to early miscarriage, and I still grieve. Our parish now has a ministry of support for those who lost babies early, and has an annual Mass of Remembrance. I've been twice now to remember those little ones and others in my family who had babies born to heaven. It took years for me to realize that I could talk to them and that they're waiting to meet us. It's still sad.

I also loved the chapter on the Blessed Mother. He is so spot on when he says this:

I think one of the major defects in world religions has been the absence of the feminine. The absence becomes more striking in a study of Christian sects where so little attention is paid to the Mother of Christ.

It has been pointed out to me that Catholicism has so much more of a feminine touch as compared to an overly masculine perspective of the Protestants, Jews, and Muslims. I really believe it’s because we have our Blessed Mother in so prominent a role in our faith.

I loved this quote as a parry to the criticism we worship Mary:

God Who made the sun also made the moon. The moon does not take away from the brilliance of the sun. The moon would be only a burned-out cinder floating in the immensity of space, were it not for the sun. All its light is reflected from that glowing furnace. In like manner, Mary reflects her Divine Son, without Whom she is nothing.

This was great.

While I was still in the first grade, a suggestion was made by a good nun that we put at the top of every page the initials J.M.J., standing for dedication to “Jesus, Mary and Joseph.” In the course of my life I have written tens of thousands of pages. I do not believe I ever set my pen or pencil to paper without having put the seal of dedication on my work.

Wow, I would love to take up that habit. I don’t know if I can at my age, but that is something that should be more promoted. I’ll have to give it a try.

And this was very insightful.

Devotion to the Blessed Mother brought me to the discovery of a new dimension in the sacredness of suffering. I do not believe that I ever in my life said to the Good Lord: “What did I do to deserve all these trials?” In my own heart I knew that I received fewer blows than I deserved. Furthermore, if Christ the Lord had summoned His Mother, who was free from sin, to share in the Cross, then the Christian must scratch from his vocabulary the word “deserve.”

And he elaborates on this theme further in the chapter:

If the Lord called her, who “deserved” no pain, to stand at the foot of the Cross, why should He not call me? If I had expressed a love for her as the Mother of the Priesthood, why should she not, in maternal love, make me more like her Son by forcing me to become a victim?

So if she suffered along with her Son, then we are privileged to suffer along with both. That is quite a statement on suffering.

Manny wrote: "It has been pointed out to me that Catholicism has so much more of a feminine touch as compared to an overly masculine perspective of the Protestants, Jews, and Muslims. "

Without a question. There is a nurturing gentleness to Catholicism that Protestantism doesn't have. Only in the interplay of the complementary aspect of male and female does the nuptial theme of Bible emerge. If Mary is nothing more than a surrogate womb the biblical narrative can't hold up. And it has ramifications on how women are treated. When you look at Catholicism we have had prominent women, many of them saints, from the very start. Most other religions and cultures don't have that save for pre-Rabbinic Judaism. Now take a look at Protestantism, who are their female role models who lived a holy life? I don't know of a single one. It is all Luther, Calvin, and many other male founders of denominations too numerous to keep track of. It is no big surprise, really, that the feminist movement of the 18th century with Mary Wollstencraft emerged out of England where Catholicism had almost been eradicated.

When my son first went to Japan on the JET program, (they recruit English-speaking college grads to assist their English teachers) I went to visit him and met one of the school administrators and had a long conversation. He asked me a question about how hard it must be to have my son so far from home, and remarked that he felt that it must be very painful because he had a daughter and he didn't know if he could bear her living in America. Ironically, a few years later, that same daughter was enrolled here at the University of Dallas (my alma mater), and I got to know her. Not long before she graduated, she became Catholic, and explained to me that Mary was the main reason. She told me her own mother died when she was younger, and now she had a mother again. ( A mutual Japanese friend told me later that she had a mean stepmother, which I had not known.) I regret that once she moved back home, we lost touch, and so had our mutual friend, but I hope she kept the faith. It is not easy to be Catholic in Japan. But I was so touched by her story.

Madeleine, I don’t know if you have read Shusako Endo’s novel Silence (about two European Jesuits searching for their mentor missing in Japan), but one of the powerful moments in the book comes when their superior tells them how difficult it is for Christianity to take root in Japanese culture.

I did read it, years ago, before my son went there. It made a powerful impression on me. Now my grandson is reading it in a Japanese lit class at Berkeley. I'm eager to hear his impressions when he finished it.

Bishop Robert Barron has an excellent review of the film on You Tube.

Great story Madeleine. I pray that young lady kept with the faith.

Frances, Bishop Barron has a unique take on a lot of movies. I read two or three reviews that panned the movie, and I decided not to see it because I wanted to keep the impression the book had left me with. I do think I want to read the book again--is it this group or another Catholic book club that has it in the archives?

And Manny, I think I will try again to see if our mutual friend in Japan has heard anything about her. Last I heard, her father had passed away and I can only imagine what kind of hassle she had with the stepmother afterwards! She's in my prayers!

Late reply here! Thanks for the responses about my baby brother. The reason I mentioned him is this: I had been skeptical of Sheen's story about the Blessed Mother sending exactly the sign he asked for. Then Frances reminds us how unexplained interventions and signs can and do occur. That her message was delivered in a story about a child who suffered the same heart defect as my little brother was very telling for me - it felt as though the Blessed Mother herself was reminding me not to question the ways of the Lord and his mother. (My brother's birth date was the Feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary.) I have a strong devotion to Our Lady, and I also liked Sheen's chapter about his devotion to her. I could feel his sincerity . So now I'm trying to stay open-minded about his perfect story about the girl in the white dress with the rose. :)

I haven't read Silence either. I want to see the movie but I think I'll read the book first. I always like to do that when a movie is based on a book.

Gerri, I read your post several times, in a kind of silent awe. No, there are no coincidences, are there?

Regarding Silence, I think it’s a good idea to read the book first, then see the movie. The director, Martin Scorsese, is a conflicted Catholic — perhaps he isn’t Catholic any longer, but the faith haunts him. I read that he had wanted to make a film of Silence for twenty years. The novel is grim, the film at times even more so. Afterward, I hope you watch Bishop Robert Barron’s You Tube video review of Scorsese’s film. Barron has a profound interpretation of the final scene which I think is spot-on.

Manny, reflecting on Fulton Sheen, I think he was a kind of Catholic lodestone, drawing seemingly inchoate events together to form an unmistakeable Christian pattern.

We had quite an extensive discussion on our read of Silence in our Catholic Thought archives. I think it was the first read I ever moderated here. I went chapter by chapter, so it might help to look at the discussion as you read for those that are going to take it up. It's a great novel but a controversial ending.

Manny, I just finished reading your introduction to Silence. It was excellent — like all your work is.

The novel’s ending is controversial, and after I read your remarks I read the review by Paul Elie in the NYTimes where there is yet another interpretation. The insight by Bishop Barron that I referred to in post 24 isn’t about the controversial ending. Scorsese put an image in at the end of the film that doesn’t occur in the book. That’s what Barron talks about on You Tube.

Manny wrote: "Gerri, i believe all the rites were represented at Vatican II. I dont know how many there are. I also believe non Catholic Christian and non Christian religions also participated but i dont think t..."

There are 7 rites listed in the catechism.

Irene wrote: "Manny wrote: "Gerri, i believe all the rites were represented at Vatican II. I dont know how many there are. I also believe non Catholic Christian and non Christian religions also participated but ..."

Thank you Irene. That's an easy number to remember.