WW II Spy Novels discussion

If you are into great WWII films, then you are into this hard-hitting book/movie combo. Although, perhaps its not as much a WWII film as much as it is a commando film. In fact I can't think of too many WWII comando films which preceded it, which were as definitive as this one was. I mean, you can't hardly compare 'The Heroes of Telemark' to 'Guns of Navarone'. Afterwards of course, few seem able to touch it.

Let's focus on the film alone, for the sake of convenience. I grew up with this flick and pretty much know the dialog by heart. Couldn't ask for better casting or better production values.

I always wonder why MacLean didn't write his other action novels (many of which are trite) as finely as he did this one; although it is ostensibly the same sort of tale he often wrote yet the writers and producers of the movie saw the hidden magnificence inherent in the characters and extracted that out for an amazed 1961 audience. The result is at one and the same time a flick that is the essential commando movie but also one that transcends its own genre.

The heart of the story is great character conflict. Although this small team of operators has a big job to do (destroy a German gun emplacement) the saga is really about how each man sees their fellow in the squad. Each man has a reason to be 'set against' the other and the antagonism is sometimes so vehement it threatens the mission itself.

What makes the tale even better than just this is the philosophical /moral dilemma the men in the story must each face. How many commando flicks do you know with philosophical underpinnings?

It all comes to a head in the story's most crucial scene: the debate about killing their betrayer. That is the point of the tale. Blowing up the guns (the climax of the yarn) is a secondary consideration.

Where do you fall among the issues raised by Corporal Miller? Who is more guilty, the "man who carries out the orders" or the "man who issues those orders"?

Discuss.

MacLean, like F. Scott, had a problem with the bottle. This may explain the decline. Yale Press published a very fine "Lives of the Novelists" a couple of years ago. There seems some correlation between fine writing and drinking that the praised but eminently forgettable "The Trip to Echo Springs" failed to get.

Thanks for this tip Jerry!

Exceptional film - my three children (13,12,10) love it so much they watch it on most rainy Sunday afternoons along with 'The Train' - Paul Schofield is the best German baddy ever - and 'Von Ryan's Express'. 'Guns ..' has everything - intrigue, action, betrayal, a little undercurrent of romance. Gregory Peck and David Niven and Anthony Quinn are excellent, no showboating ... what a wonderful film.

My god. Your kids watch Burt Lancaster in Frankenheimer's 'The Train'??? Every weekend?

I can only salute your parenting skills. Total admiration. Astounding.

Schofield indeed was ruthless. You couldnt ask for a better actor in such a role. Another great talent in the same vein--is Maximillian Schell. 'The Young Lions', 'Cross of Iron'.

We should compare movie lists sometime. You have startled me. Try them out on 'Twelve O'Clock High' sometime. Peck. Marlowe. Jagger.

I believe flicks like these 'train the eye'--key incidents hinge on microscopic, minute detail. Nothing is spoon-fed. Dialog and acting is paramount. The plot of the movie turns on a subtle inflection in a character's voice.