Crime Detective Mystery Thriller Group discussion

When you read a good mystery or thriller, how important is getting into the characters on a personal level vs. the thrills and spills?

It's important to define characterization in order to really have an answer to this question. If you're developing your characters in a story, it's based on their actions and what they're saying in a story. The great novels have memorable characters and much of it is based on this. If you're keeping this in mind as you're reading a novel, you could define if the author is doing a great job of characterization.
So, to answer this question - which is a good one - my feeling is that I want to get into the characters and that is what makes for a great story.
If we go back to our group reading for A Girl With A Clock For A Heart, Liana was a great character because you couldn't trust her and this was based on her actions and what she did and said throughout the novel.

By the way, welcome to the group Eduardo. Thanks for joining us.

Feliks wrote: "Not so much..."

While I agree a thriller or mystery has to move right away (from the first paragraph, IMO), one can do the moving through the character rather than through extraneous thrills and spills. Having read some of the "hallmarks" of the genre you mention, I can say they don't move me.

Ron wrote: "By the way, welcome to the group Eduardo. Thanks for joining us."

Thank you!

I read many mysteries, usually series, but no thrillers. I value the characters over the mystery. IMO, the plot needs to be interesting and the mystery needs to hold together, but the returning characters, and the setting, are what bring me back to a series.

Any particular mysteries that you enjoy to read Sandy?

I happen to think that character development in psychological thrillers is very important. You could look to great writers like Linwood Barclay and Gregg Hurwitz to have their characters move the story along. In the one day it took me to read Already Gone by John Rector, I would say that the main characters kept the story moving for me as well. That made things even more surprising to me.

Ron wrote: "Any particular mysteries that you enjoy to read Sandy?"

My favorites:
Monk series by Anne Perry
Russell / Holmes by Laurie King
Clare Fergussen by Julia Spencer-Fleming
Three Pines by Louise Penny
Jim Stringer by Andrew Martin (and I'm sure hoping there will be more!)
Kubu by Michael Stanley
Strike by Galbraith aka JK Rowling
Peter Wimsey by Sayers
Rumpole

I'm currently reading my first Dalglish by PD James and liking it.

And then, just barely qualifying as mysteries:
Amelia Peabody by Peters
#1 Ladies by McCall-Smith
Flavia DeLuce

My preference is mysteries over thrillers, as a rule, but I find some cozies too cozy, because they are too superficial, without the character development.
Like Sandy, Dorothy Sayers' Lord Peter Wimsey is a favorite of mine, which is because the mysteries are clever but I loved the characters too.
There is a balance, of course.
fyi: so many of my own favorable reviews say they really Like my main character. that is huge for me.

I would never have enjoyed Nero Wolfe or Archie Goodwin as much if Stout hadn't developed them so well.

Dick Francis wrote many mysteries with many different heroes, but he was very good at doing the same. His stories were often cross-overs to action, too.

Sandy wrote: "Ron wrote: "Any particular mysteries that you enjoy to read Sandy?"

My favorites:
Monk series by Anne Perry
Russell / Holmes by Laurie King
Clare Fergussen by Julia Spencer-Fleming
Three Pines by ..."

Not familiar with some of these authors. Will have to look into them. Thanks.

Back on subject--I would say that character development doesn't always determine whether I like a book or not. However, if an author digs deeper into the characters, it makes me care more about them (or make me loathe them a little more) and those are the books that will stick with me, that I will continue to think about long after I have read them.

Kathryn wrote: "Back on subject--I would say that character development doesn't always determine whether I like a book or not. However, if an author digs deeper into the characters, it makes me care more about th..."

You make me think of a related point. If character development portrays a protagonist the reader doesn't care for, a turn-off, then it can work against rather than for the story. In that case appealing to thrills & spills may be preferable.

I still think it's important to know a character, whether they are good or bad. Even if the character is bad, it just makes me want to keep reading to see if they get what's coming to them.

Eduardo wrote: "When you read a good mystery or thriller, how important is getting into the characters on a personal level vs. the thrills and spills?"

This is important to me. It doesn't have to be simply getting to know the main character(s) better but having their life evolve through a series. I expect it is the reason that I like the books of Deborah Crombie so much and have given up on Karin Fossum and similar authors.

I don't care for the P.D. James series. While Dalgleish is a relatively interesting character, I find the series far too static. Also from what I have read it is highly unlikely that someone of the rank of commander would be doing any investigating.

I also like character development. It lets me get to know the characters, their possible motivations etc. Take Dear Daughter, I was able to empathize with Janie after hearing about her past and motivations.

I was kind of on the fence about this until I inadvertently downloaded an abridged, audio version of a Harlan Coben story. I was about 2 hours into a 6-hour book when I just knew something was off. Coben normally gives you just enough detail about a character for you to become invested in some way. It wasn't happening here and that's when I discovered it was abridged. I found the unabridged version and it was as if I was experiencing a completely different story because of the added characterizations. It changed my perspective.

So, I believe character development is essential in this genre, especially if you want to become emotional connected to the story.

Does anyone have a problem enjoying the story if they don't like the main character?

I used to think that was necessary until I read Gone Girl. Loved the book, didn't like a single character.

I think there has to be a combination of things to have a great mystery/thriller. Character development is important and I think that Linwood Barclay does a superb job of that. In his books (at least in the ones that I've read), you have a good sense of his main protagonist by the end of the first chapter (the typical "everyman"). As you get more into the book, the "everyman" slowly becomes a reluctant hero/crusader because of something that's happened to him or his family. He has a wonderful, comfortable voice and that comes through in his characters. Where I'm going with this is that I think character development is hugely dependent on the writer's "voice" and his or her ability to project it into his or her characters. I also don't think you have to like the characters but as a reader, you have to be engaged in them enough to care about what happens to them - even if it means wanting to see them "get what's coming to them".

Having said that, I think that for mysteries and thrillers, there has to be consistent plot development as well in order to build intensity and to keep interest. From my perspective as a mystery writer, there is absolutely nothing more gratifying than when a reader writes to you and says, "I didn't see that coming."

From my perspective as a reader and a writer (and I love to read the same genre that I write in), you gotta have a good hook to draw the reader in, you have to have believable and engaging characters (not necessarily likeable), you have to have a good story, and certainly for mysteries, you have to have an "I didn't see that coming" ending.

All good points Marta. The voice in the character is very powerful as well. I've read a lot of books where that voice can carry the book as well.

Ron wrote: "All good points Marta. The voice in the character is very powerful as well. I've read a lot of books where that voice can carry the book as well."

Thanks, Ron. These elements work for me. However, someone might very well feel differently. I guess that's why certain books "click" with some people but not with others. Have a great weekend!

Here is the opening paragraph in my favorite pulp fiction series detective series by Mike Roscoe. Johnny April's voice really carries the stories. This is from Death Is A Round Black Ball.

"My name is April - Johnny April - and I say that cabs are like broads and cops. When you want one, you can go to hell, and when you don't want any the area is so full of them you can't set your whiskey bottle down."