Bright Young Things discussion

Welcome to December's group read of My Man Jeeves by P.G. Wodehouse.

Enjoy!

I just started reading this and it's already had me laughing out loud. "I hadn't the heart to touch my breakfast. I told Jeeves to drink it himself." Wodehouse is so hilariously tongue-in-cheek. A great selection for the holiday season!

I'm looking forward to a cheerful, short read! Can't wait!

I've been reading this for a while. I keep hoping something will happen. But I'm not quite 40% in and it just doesn't seem that funny. Maybe there's a big difference between my American sense of humor and a British sense of humor. But I will keep plugging on.

As I recall, I didn't find the TV show that funny either. Just barely humorous.

But I'll keep hoping.

Jan C wrote: "I've been reading this for a while. I keep hoping something will happen. But I'm not quite 40% in and it just doesn't seem that funny. Maybe there's a big difference between my American sense of ..."

Sorry you're not enjoying it, Jan. I kind of agree with you about the tv show--I watched a few episodes and thought they were ok but not great. Something about the writing though is really cracking me up. I'm in the mood for some humor after my recent health ordeal! And it's a fun change from reading about Kaiser Wilhelm. (BTW, checked George, Nicholas, and Wilhelm out of the library today, thanks to your comments. Looks good so far.) Maybe you'll like the Mitford book better.

P G Wodehouse was very popular in the US at the time he was writing, but perhaps his humour has not aged as well there.

Jan C wrote: "Maybe there's a big difference between my American sense of humor and a British sense of humor."


As Val states, P.G. Wodehouse was very popular in America - and a glimpse at the reviews on Amazon.com show that popularity endures. We're all different - and we are all amused by different things

For me P.G. Wodehouse is the funniest writer of the past century. Wodehouse defies superlatives. He is, quite simply, the best comedic writer to ever put pen to paper. Needless to say I am a confirmed Wodehousian and revel in the man’s comedic genius. I have read numerous books by the great man and all, to one degree or another, are a delight.

Sadly, My Man Jeeves, whilst perfectly fine, is not amongst his best work. Despite the book’s title, the book is not wall-to-wall Jeeves and Wooster, and half of the stories feature a proto-Bertie Wooster character called Reggie Pepper. After nominating, and then reading this book (one I hadn't read before), I discovered that all the stories are early examples of P.G. Wodehouse’s work.

A couple of the stories, "Jeeves and the Unbidden Guest” and "The Aunt and the Sluggard”, contain the requisite levels of buffoonery and moronic misunderstandings and are well worth the price of admission, and one of the Reggie Pepper stories, "Rallying Round Old George” made me chuckle a couple of times. The others, whilst pleasant enough, do not quite cut the comedic mustard.

My Man Jeeves is not the best entry point into the wonderful world of P.G. Wodehouse despite some enjoyable moments and, should you be new to Wodehouse then rest assured there are many more enjoyable and satisfying books than this one. That said, i am delighted to see P.G. Wodehouse getting some attention here at BYT because he was such a great writer, and one who shines a light on a different aspect of our era.

Here's to a wonderful discussion.

I am a huge Wodehouse fan but must agree with you Nigeyb that this is not the best of the series but it is an anomaly since the rest of his Bertie/Jeeves stories make me laugh out loud. Bertie is a total idiot and Jeeves is a genius and in this case the twain does meet to make for insane happenings. Good stuff!!!

I must admit that I didn't find this funny either. I have to say that I've never really enjoyed the Jeeves and Wooster programme, so I suspected this may not appeal to me, but I am glad that I finally read something by P G Wodehouse...

I agree with Jan and Susan, I just didn't find it that funny. I think that Nigeyb and Jill are right though, in that this was a precursor for his Jeeves and Wooster characters. I skipped over the Reggie Pepper stories but did find myself warming to the story format and farcical humour by the end. I'll probably try some more later, but I'm in no hurry. Any recommendations on which is best?

I finished the first story today. It did make me chuckle a couple of times, and I am enjoying it. I have to draw comparisons to another group read I was just part of elsewhere.

It was the Sherlock Holmes stories. One of the main gripes people had with that book was that Holmes (or rather, Doyle) "cheated". The information needed to solve the mysteries was alluded to, but not really put out there for the reader. For example, Sherlock shakes someone's hand, that part is on the page, but what is not mentioned is part of the reveal later when he tells Watson something to the effect of "when I shook his hand I noticed a black smudge on his thumb which, of course meant...". I'm kind of getting that impression with Jeeves. "Oh, didn't I tell you I know a publisher? Didn't I tell you I worked for so and so many years ago..."

In neither case is it enough to distract me from the enjoyment of the stories, but it is something I don't think modern authors could get away with.

I enjoyed this little book. Chuckled a lot and laughed out loud several times. I enjoyed the Wooster and Jeeves stories (half of the book) more than the Reggie Pepper stories, but they were all good. The stories were pretty formulaic and certainly not deep, but Wodehouse's use of language was superb. The slang was very dated and I'm sure I missed some of the period references, but even so, reading these stories was like taking a mini-vacation. I'm looking forward to reading more Wodehouse.

Jennifer, yes it reminded me of Holmes too! Something in the style or age of writing maybe, I found Sherlock and Watson the crime version to Jeeves and Wooster's spoofs.

^ True - a couple of wonderful double acts

Jennifer W wrote: "Holmes (or rather, Doyle) "cheated". The information needed to solve the mysteries was alluded to, but not really put out there for the reader."

I have to say that the rule of transparency which you allude to was codified by the Crime Club in 1927 and is a feature of the English Classic story only, the tradition begun with Agatha Christie and continuing only into the early 30s. Modern cozies don't observe it rigorously, and of course other traditions such as hard-boiled pay it no attention whatsoever. Doyle was writing for dramatic effect, not setting a puzzle for the reader.

Certainly Holmes is unflappable, as is Jeeves. But I am reminded of another unflappable butler, Norris in The Big Sleep. Marlow says "You made a mistake there" and Norris replies "I make many mistakes, sir." just as Jeeves is always deferring to Bertie without giving up a millimeter of ground.

It's hopeless to treat Jeeves and Wooster as real people, or even emblems. They're funny only withing their airless enclosed world, as inconsequential as Bertie is always wanting to be. You have to be willing to enter that world. Abandon hope all ye who enter here, as Dante says of his Inferno. :-)

^ What a splendid post. Interesting, informed and erudite. Thanks Charles.


Charles wrote: "It's hopeless to treat Jeeves and Wooster as real people, or even emblems. They're funny only within their airless enclosed world, as inconsequential as Bertie is always wanting to be. You have to be willing to enter that world. Abandon hope all ye who enter here, as Dante says of his Inferno. :-) "

Willingness is the key. Such sweet surrender though.

I was mulling over what also makes this book the less-than-ideal entry point. It is, of course, the lack of Aunt Agatha.

Nigeyb do you have suggestions for a better entry point to Jeeves and Wooster? Or does anyone else have another favourite?

Pink wrote: "Nigeyb do you have suggestions for a better entry point to Jeeves and Wooster? Or does anyone else have another favourite?"


Hmm. Good question Pink.

Wodehouse published over a hundred books, most of which are still in print.

Some of the best Jeeves and Wooster novels and collections include The Code of the Woosters, Thank You, Jeeves and Joy in the Morning

I slightly prefer the Lord Emsworth books and can heartily recommend Summer Lightning and Heavy Weather

One of his earliest creations was a character called Psmith, and Mike and Psmith and Psmith in the City are fab. Leave It to Psmith made me roar with laughter - I think it's the first book in which we meet Lord Emsworth (see above).

I hope that helps.

I also hope we can read some more P.G. Wodehouse together - as I'd love to read one of the titles above. I'm certain many BYTers would really enjoy them.

Following on from Nigeyb's excellent post, I would suggest Carry on, Jeeves as a good starting point. It contains four of the Jeeves & Wooster stories in My Man Jeeves, plus four more (including the only story narrated by Jeeves himself - gives an entirely different perspective to the stories!).

Nigeyb and Lori, thanks for the suggestions :)

I remember reading another Wodehouse, I'd say when I was about 15 and scrounged off my grandads bookshelf when I had nothing to read, I remember it being hilarious, so I will add my voice to those saying that other books in the series are much funnier. There were chuckle-worthy moments in this book, but it felt like he hadn't yet hit his straps. I am glad we chose it, as it conjured up those memories and I will definitely read more. Thanks to those above for your suggestions.

I don't find many of his stories hilarious, but he has a lovely way of writing a comic phrase.
I am listening to the audio version read by Martin Jarvis and his voice fits the stories well.

I'm halfway through the book. I read the first Pepper story last night. I rather enjoyed it. Everything was schemed and planned and yet it blew up in his face in the end. I preferred it to Jeeves solving every problem flawlessly.

I just started reading it and am really loving the first story.

Had to laugh at this passage - I wonder what Wodehouse's publisher thought?

I always used to think that publishers had to be devilish intelligent fellows, loaded down with the grey matter; but I've got their number now. All a publisher has to do is to write cheques at intervals, while a lot of deserving and industrious chappies rally round and do the real work. I know, because I've been one myself. I simply sat tight in the old apartment with a fountain-pen, and in due season a topping, shiny book came along.

Yes, I wondered if that was a little dig at his publisher when I heard it.

Val, it would be interesting to know. I thought the plot of this first story was very clever, and I enjoyed the way that Jeeves' initial plan went wrong - rather a surprise! Also really enjoyed the comic turns of phrase which are always so brilliant in Wodehouse.

Okay I just read what I think is the first of the Reggie Pepper stories, Absent Treatment, and I found that somewhat humorous, but based on a stupid idea on the part of Reggie.

But it was a situation that could happen to anyone. Most of the other stories I've read so far seem to happen only to the incredibly rich and privileged - people who have wealth and are trying to avoid anything approaching work. I spent years trying to avoid work but didn't have the wealth to fall back on.

I'm finding this a quick read and have read most of the stories now, including a couple of the Reggie Pepper ones. I rather enjoyed his character, which seems like a strange cross between Wooster and Jeeves, since he keeps claiming to be a "chump" and yet he is the one who comes up with the supposedly clever schemes!

The Reggie stories were later reworked for Jeeves and Wooster, so I'd be interested to see how the later versions compare.

Jan, that's an interesting point about the characters' wealth and privilege - to be honest, this has never worried me as the characters are so unrealistic and it's pure comic escapism for me, but I can certainly see what you mean! Working for a living seems to be regarded as a terrible fate in the world of the Woosters.

I have been doing a bit of Googling about the Jeeves and Wooster stories, and was surprised to learn that Wodehouse first wrote about the pair in 1915-16, during the First World War - so the characters will be 100 next year!

^ And of course the running gag is that it is Jeeves the butler who is the most urbane, intellectual, resourceful and cultured - whilst Bertie - for all his wealth and privilege is a complete idiot.


Jan C wrote: "Most of the other stories I've read so far seem to happen only to the incredibly rich and privileged - people who have wealth and are trying to avoid anything approaching work. I spent years trying to avoid work but didn't have the wealth to fall back on."

Very few do Jan. Still, as you've probably noticed, a lot of the BYT era books focus on those privileged few. Indeed the name of our group "Bright Young Things" predominantly comprised the incredibly rich and privileged. Most ordinary people could only press their noses against the glass. Still, it's made for some compelling literature has it not? And, in the case of P.G. Wodehouse, some very very funny stories.

Thought I'd post a couple of links to articles about Wodehouse that I found interesting. The first one is about his use of slang - the list of synonyms for 'drunk' near the end is amazing!

http://thedabbler.co.uk/2012/03/green...

The second one is from a blog about First World War fiction, and it is about a book of his I haven't read, Indiscretions of Archie - I'm intrigued to learn that it's about a Wooster-type character who has actually served in the war! It does contain a comic spoiler.

https://greatwarfiction.wordpress.com...

I've just finished and written a short review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Thanks for these links, Judy. You always find the most interesting articles and tidbits! The Archie book does sound interesting and all those slang words were a riot.
Now if I just knew something about cricket so I could better understand the Psmith books....

^ Seconded. Thanks for writing up your review and also for the links.


Let's have those synonyms for ‘drunk’ one more time....

above par, blighted, boiled, breezy, cheerio, cock-eyed, dippy, dizzy, fogged, foggy, fried, gay, goofy, groggy, jugged, lathered, lit up like a Christmas tree, loopy, mouldy, non compos, oiled (up), pickled, pie-eyed, polluted, potty, rattled, rocky, rotten, rum, rummy, sloppy, snootered, soppy, sozzled, steamed up, stiff, stuffed, submerged, tight (as an owl), warm, well-oiled, whiffled, woozled and woozy.

^ There's been a bit too much of that for me over the last week as the seasonal celebrations come thick and fast. Fortunately it eases up for the next few days before the next onslaught.

Do we know if 'squiffy' is a Woosterism? I ask as in one circle I'm know as 'Squiffers'.

^ Pre-dates PGW, apparently 'squiffy' originated in the mid 19th century

Thank you, although would fit in nicely with the other terms.
We have a boxed set of 10 Jeeves & Wooster books on the shelf I really must find time. I unlike Bertie have to work for a living so finding time to ead isn't always easy.
I wonder how much Bertie is worth financially in todays world??? I wonder what books he would read given he had the time?

Barbara, I know very little about cricket too, much to my husband's disgust as he is a fan... haven't read the Psmith books as yet, but I must get to them.

Michael and Nigeyb, seems PGW did use the term 'squiffy' all the same - I've just found a site which has a list of words used for 'drunk' by the Drones Club, and, although some of the terms given are the same, it includes several not mentioned above... awash; illuminated; ossified; primed; stinko; squiffy; tanked.

Makes you wonder just how many characters in Wodehouse's books do have one too many!

Here's that link...

http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/featu...

I think the Reggie Pepper stories don't work quite as well because Reggie is not such a useless idiot as Bertie. PGW regards them, and has them regard themselves, as drones.

I have not read the Archie stories, but the intrusion of something as real as a world war or the depression would spoil the atmosphere. PGW's books are like cappuccino froth, insubstantial and wonderful at the same time.

^ I suspect PGW agreed with that assessment, as Reggie was a proto-Bertie and some of the stories were recycled

I would not recommend the audio version by the way. None of the discs would play to the end so I missed part of some of the stories, disc two would not play in the car at all, it took longer to listen than it would have taken to read and I had to pay £1 when the book would have been free if the library had a copy. (I will rate and review the book when the irritation about the format has diminished.)

I finished tonight. I think I still prefer the Pepper stories to Bertie and Jeeves. They amused me more. Perhaps because Pepper himself was in the scrap, too, whereas Bertie is a "helpful" friend in all of his stories. Though Bertie might be mildly inconvenienced as the events transpire, he's never the one truly in "harms'" way.

I'm about 70% through the book and I have to agree with you about Pepper v. Wooster stories.

Okay, finally finished this afternoon.

I liked the Reggie Pepper stories better than most of the Bertie stories. However, I did find the final one rather humorous when Bertie has to move out of his own apartment because Rocky's aunt thinks it is his. And he has to try and tie his own tie and doesn't know how people manage it day after day.

So maybe if there are better stories they might stand a chance with me.