Laurie R. King Virtual Book Club discussion

Happy New Year friends! This month's book has Sherlock's brother Mycroft as the protagonist as a young university graduate just starting out in government. Well before he becomes the puppetmaster that Mary Russell knows.

Let's jump in to discussion! Has anyone finished the book yet? Or are we all still recovering from the holidays?

I read it when it was published in 2015; now that I am home from holiday traveling I can give it a re-read. I enjoyed it the first time around, and was pleasantly surprised by the collaboration.

I finished it this morning, and enjoyed "meeting" the young Mycroft when he was still pretty idealistic...(though he gets rather cured of that in the course of the book - not really a spoiler!)
I was also pleasantly surprised with the writing by this pair of authors.

Always the odd person out. I read it a couple of years ago and really didn't much care for it, but so as not to dampen the discussion I will keep my thoughts to myself until near the end.

I, too, read it shortly after it came out so I will need to do a re-read to participate. I do remember, possibly because it had been hyped so much by a number of people I admire, being a little underwhelmed. We'll see what the re-read brings!

I read it earlier in 2019 and have read both sequels. I enjoyed all of them and was delighted to find another way to view Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes started my appreciation of mysteries and I always wanted to know more about Mycroft.

Lenore wrote: "Always the odd person out. I read it a couple of years ago and really didn't much care for it, but so as not to dampen the discussion I will keep my thoughts to myself until near the end."

I don't much care for it either but I'm trying to finish it anyway.

I just began, but I like it so far . .. good to know one's way around and the habits of the denizens. (I think that's vague enough not to spoil).

I have it on my Kindle and meant to read it years ago. I'm always curious about the collaboration process when more than one author writes a novel. How do they even go about doing that? Seems like it would be a constant struggle over what plot path to take.

Have Kareem and Anna ever talked about their process in an interview or panel?

https://youtu.be/kdERxz7Hopw

He comes to the BSI dinner sometimes, not sure about this year, but if he does, I’ll let him know we’re reading him. Really lovely man.

Laurie

Antoinette wrote: "I don't much care for it either but I'm trying to finish it anyway.."

That's totally fine! The discussion is more fun when we have different opinions :D

What aren't you liking about the book?

Erin wrote: "Antoinette wrote: "I don't much care for it either but I'm trying to finish it anyway.."

That's totally fine! The discussion is more fun when we have different opinions :D

What aren't you liking ..."

There's more violence than I'm comfortable with. and it's almost all male. The only young woman has disappeared and Holmes makes fun of the elderly women, as in my age.

Sabrina wrote: "I have it on my Kindle and meant to read it years ago. I'm always curious about the collaboration process when more than one author writes a novel. How do they even go about doing that? Seems like ..."

I've wondered about that also. How do they decide? How do they coordinate efforts? Naomi Baltuk has co-authored with her sister, while my sis and I can just barely decide on a place for dinner.

I have to keep reminding myself that "Holmes" refers to Mycroft. ;-)

Mary wrote: "Sabrina wrote: "I have it on my Kindle and meant to read it years ago. I'm always curious about the collaboration process when more than one author writes a novel. How do they even go about doing t..."

The temptation when there's a celebrity author is always to think the non-celebrity author is doing most of the actual writing, but I'm not sure if that is the case in this collaboration. Charles Todd is two people, right? I thought I remembered that one mostly does plot and one the actual write-up.

I can't comment on this book as a collaboration nor can I comment as someone who has collaborated but I can remember a bit of what various authors have said about it on panels at Bouchercon. Charles Todd is actually Charles and his mother Caroline. They said that they work simultaneously, sending portions back and forth to each other. I think I remember them saying they both would have ideas for a book and bounce them off each other before starting writing, and then continue with that back and forth. Chris Grabenstein talked about working with James Patterson. In that case Patterson conceives the plot and does a very spare outline and the author writes a chapter or so at a time and sends it to Patterson who then reviews it, making changes, etc. I would think that these two examples are probably near the further two ends of the gamut of collaboration, except for actual ghostwriting.

Naomi Baltuk has co-authored with her sister, while my sis and I can just barely decide on a place for dinner.

LOL, exactly! I guess as long as two people are working towards a goal, and are both motivated, it would eventually work itself out. I'm sure you and your sister end up eating after it's all said and done.

Emily wrote: The temptation when there's a celebrity author is always to think the non-celebrity author is doing most of the actual writing, but I'm not sure if that is the case in this collaboration.

So true about celebrity authors, Emily. I admit, I often assume that too, but then so many famous authors use ghostwriters nowadays, so it's an easy mindset to have.

I watched the Youtube video that Laurie linked us to. Kareem is definitely the expert Sherlockian/historian in this case. Anna admits she didn't know anything about Sherlock Holmes or the era, so maybe she helped with prose.

KarenB wrote: "They said that they work simultaneously, sending portions back and forth to each other. I think I remember them saying they both would have ideas for a book and bounce them off each other before starting writing, and then continue with that back and forth.

That would be so nice to have someone to bounce ideas off of. I usually use my kids, lol.

I read a paranormal fantasy/mystery series, and only just learned that it was a husband/wife team. The wife writes the female MC and the husband writes the male MC.

There are many examples of two writing together: Charles Todd is mother and son. PJ Tracy was mother and daughter. Ilona Andrews and the team of Steve Miller and Sharon Lee are both husband and wife teams. PJ Parrish is I believe sisters. They all handle it a bit differently from what I have read.

I finished Mycroft Holmes last night. About one-third into the book I decided to just read it as backstory, suspending disbelief, and was much happier with it. I enjoy backstory, and also enjoy Trinidad where I lived in Port of Spain for 16 months. I'll probably never read another in the series, but bought a copy for my sil, who is excited about finding another series in the Sherlock tradition.

Sabrina wrote: "Naomi Baltuk has co-authored with her sister, while my sis and I can just barely decide on a place for dinner.

LOL, exactly! I guess as long as two people are working towards a goal, and are both..."

Good point -- and their book was quite good. Found it!
Keeper of the Crystal Spring

Erin wrote: "Antoinette wrote: "I don't much care for it either but I'm trying to finish it anyway.."

That's totally fine! The discussion is more fun when we have different opinions :D

What aren't you liking ..."

I also read it some time ago and found the writing to be terrible. However I've noticed that most people aren't bothered by terrible writing; hence my lonely 1-star review.

Ellery Queen was also two people, I think.

Emily wrote: "Ellery Queen was also two people, I think."

Emily, Dina, and Mary: Wow, so many writing teams. I knew about Charles Todd and Ilona Andrews (love those books!), but not the others. Always a surprise to find out a book is jointly written for me.

Antoinette wrote: And it's almost all male. The only young woman has disappeared and Holmes makes fun of the elderly women, as in my age.

I hate it when I pick up a book like that. It used to frustrate me so much about fantasy when I was growing up. Every woman either needed rescuing or was a barmaid.

Another SH pastiche I read had this issue, too, which is odd since the original stories had women representation. And even a small amount of research into the Victorian era would turn up all kinds of interesting women. I mean... they had women street boxing matches!

Is not having women representation in books an issue for others? Do you feel like books today usually have a more diverse cast than in previous decades?

Sabrina wrote: "Is not having women representation in books an issue for others? Do you feel like books today usually have a more diverse cast than in previous decades?..."

I prefer books that include women, yes, although I dislike ahistorical books that include female characters in places they are very unlikely to be.

This book, of course, by being centered on Trinidad, includes a lot more racial diversity than most books that focus on Victorian England.

Hello all, sorry to interrupt here, but I wanted to mention that I’ve posted a thread asking you good folk for suggestions and feedback about the VBC. I’d really appreciate anything you have to offer, as we go into our 8th year here.

The thread is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Thank you so much...and now, back to our regularly scheduled programming......

Laurie

Emily wrote: ...although I dislike ahistorical books that include female characters in places they are very unlikely to be.

This book, of course, by being centered on Trinidad, includes a lot more racial diversity than most books that focus on Victorian England. "

I can't think of many places where it'd be unlikely for a woman to be though. I'm always coming across individual accounts of women that break the historical mold. I came across this one account of a captain of a big merchant clipper around 1880s, who was injured during a storm, and his crew just sort of panicked, so his two teenage daughters stepped up as captains and piloted the ship into a safe port.

I think history has a long history of making women invisible and ignoring their contributions outside the domestic, so it has really skewed our views of the past.

And as you mentioned, the same goes for racial diversity in Victorian era books. Victorian London was an international port, so it's always jarring to read a book with no diversity. I'm really loving Cyrus Douglas and Mycroft Holmes as partners.

Hi All, I'm late to the discussion but just pointing out that we're past the "no spoilers" point now so Have At It. I've read all the books in the series and enjoyed them, although when the series started I was rather dubious as were some of you.
I thought the co-authors came up with a very clever answer as to why Mycroft becomes sedentary in his later life - and gains weight. Rather more interesting than Sherlock's assertion that he's simply lazy! I also like the evolving relationship between the brothers - tense but you can also see the affection there.
Like many of you it's been some years since I've read the book so I'll have to rely on the rest of you for some of the finer details!

Merrily wrote: "Hi All, I'm late to the discussion but just pointing out that we're past the "no spoilers" point now so Have At It. I've read all the books in the series and enjoyed them, although when the series ..."

I'm really liking how Mycroft is portrayed as a young man in this so far, Merrily. Especially the parts where he deftly maneuvers things to his advantage without anyone being the wiser. Did this portrayal fit your image of him?

Sabrina wrote: "Merrily wrote: "Hi All, I'm late to the discussion but just pointing out that we're past the "no spoilers" point now so Have At It. I've read all the books in the series and enjoyed them, although ..."

As you know, Sabrina, I've used a younger Mycroft in some of my own stories, and I always saw him as being very protective of Sherlock (through necessity) and also, cold and calculating when it comes to dealing with the opposition - so in a way it did. I don't think I ever dealt with why he was so "indolent" in contrast to his hyper younger brother, and I think that was a very clever approach in this book. Parenthetically, I think Russell is being a tad hard on Mycroft as she gets older and discovers more about him - she's known for a long time that he was in Intelligence, after all!

Merrily wrote: Parenthetically, I think Russell is being a tad hard on Mycroft as she gets older and discovers more about him - she's known for a long time that he was in Intelligence, after all!


Well, especially since Holmes and Russell regularly do a number of morally questionable things. I think she's young, and her view of the world was black and white, but maybe it's changing...

I had to laugh at Mycroft's ever so romantic proposal to Georgiana that included where the diamond came from, the political situation of the area, and his future predictions.

. . . and her immediate leap to mercenary suggestions about buying shares in diamond mines. Such a red flag!

Sabrina wrote: "Merrily wrote: Parenthetically, I think Russell is being a tad hard on Mycroft as she gets older and discovers more about him - she's known for a long time that he was in Intelligence, after all!
..."

That was very Mycroft, wasn't it?

Merrily wrote: "Parenthetically, I think Russell is being a tad hard on Mycroft as she gets older and discovers more about him - she's known for a long time that he was in Intelligence, after all!"

Ah, but I don't think people really understand what lengths Intelligence is willing to go to until they see it firsthand.

Erin wrote: "Merrily wrote: "Parenthetically, I think Russell is being a tad hard on Mycroft as she gets older and discovers more about him - she's known for a long time that he was in Intelligence, after all!"..."

And Russell will not have seen as many John Le Carre based movies as I have, at least not when she was young...

Merrily wrote: And Russell will not have seen as many John Le Carre based movies as I have, at least not when she was young...

Heh, that's a good point. Entertainment is saturated with Jason Bourne type shows and conspiracy theories. Though, it's always startling to realize a close family member isn't what you think.

I’m a little more than halfway through the book—I got a late start. The book is just OK for me. As someone else said, I miss the presence of strong female characters.

One thing that is curious about the interactions between Mycroft and Sherlock is Mycroft’s seemingly superior intelligence and his coaching Sherlock in deductions and boxing. I am too far removed from ACD’s Mycroft to recall much about the character in those books to make a comparison, but he seems at odds with the Mycroft in the Russell series.

I will finish the book, but I don’t plan on reading another.

I can't remember. How much older is Mycroft than Sherlock?

Erin wrote: "I can't remember. How much older is Mycroft than Sherlock?"

In this book there is seven year's difference between Mycroft and Sherlock.

Dayna wrote: "I’m a little more than halfway through the book—I got a late start. The book is just OK for me. As someone else said, I miss the presence of strong female characters.

One thing that is curious ab..."

Mycroft mentoring Sherlock is definitely an interesting take on their relationship. While Sherlock admits in the ACD stories that Mycroft is the smarter brother, I can't say I ever considered Mycroft as the one to push Sherlock into practicing his deduction.

Dayna wrote: "One thing that is curious about the interactions between Mycroft and Sherlock is Mycroft’s seemingly superior intelligence and his coaching Sherlock in deductions and boxing. I am too far removed from ACD’s Mycroft to recall much about the character in those books to make a comparison, but he seems at odds with the Mycroft in the Russell series."

I agree; I found their dynamic really off from what I remember of the brothers. I always picture them as really not having much in common; if they weren't blood relations, they probably wouldn't have ever crossed paths.

You know, one thing I remember wondering about when I read it, that scene where Mycroft flies through London on horseback. This is the late 19th century, not the 17th. Would a man have used a horse for actual transportation in London? I think of horseback riding as a thing for Rotten Row or mounted police, not a young man wanting to get from here to there. Wouldn’t he have flagged down a hansom?
Just an thing I remember catching my eye. (And it’s been a while since I read it, details may have lapsed...)

The horse chase seemed out of place to me as well. If we had the ability to ask questions of the author, that’s something I might ask about.

Laurie wrote: "You know, one thing I remember wondering about when I read it, that scene where Mycroft flies through London on horseback. This is the late 19th century, not the 17th. Would a man have used a horse..."

I would think horses were more recreational in that time period. Or for the wealthy gentleman. My first thought was... so Mycroft can't afford a coat, but he can afford to feed, stable, and pay for a groomsman?