Retro Reads discussion

This thread is for open spoilers (for this book anyway) & final conclusions.

My mother introduced me to M.M. Kaye's Death in...series years ago. I have recently inherited her collection of the series and reread this one yesterday - ancient copy falling apart. I enjoyed it. I specifically found the setting fascinating - post-war Berlin, before the Wall with descriptions of the state of the city. The plot was a bit far-fetched in terms of the jewels, but I enjoyed the various characters.

Finished. It’s been good company just before bedtime, clears the cares of the world away. My husband’s step grandmother lived in West Berlin after the wall went up, and he visited her there. His biological grandmother died in Poland during the Nazi invasion, and his mother and aunt were brought back to Berlin by his great aunt, his biological grandmother’s sister. We visited Germany while serving in the Navy, we went to conferences involving finance & banking a couple of times & stayed over long enough to see a bit. We were there after the Wall came down, he said it was very different.

One thing that I do like about Kaye's mysteries is that she doesn't hesitate to make anyone the villain, and she keeps the heroine explaining to herself just why it can't be any of those people she loves and/or admires. The smiling killer?

I didn't mind the jewel connection, Carolien, because there were so many true stories of the Nazi hoarding artwork, etc. But what I did mind was the name of the new-school-to-be for the handicapped. I mean, really?!? I would think that rather than being memorialized she ought to be forgotten as quickly as possible!

Kaye really set the scene well; once I "realized" (you know, started to think about it) that there were so many years -sixteen!- between the end of the War and the building of the Wall, I could see what a closed and yet open society it had to be, and the descriptions of the bombed ruins, etc., were brilliant.

Thank you, Karlyne! The school name just floored me as well. Really? Geez, Robert! I know you loved her, but she was a killer!
The downside of reading this author's books so close together is that you notice certain similarities. We got the unloaded gun during this one (view spoiler)[just as we did in Death in Cyprus's climax (hide spoiler)]. I did roll my eyes a bit with that scene.
All in all I enjoyed myself. Though the romance, such as it was, was weak.

Yes, and I was thinking that she wouldn't have hesitated to sweep Wally and Lotty out of the way, either, if she'd thought they knew anything. A great lover of kids and humanity in general...

Ha! Kaye and/or her editor missed this one:
Back in chapter 6 Lang told Miranda there were really 11 suspects and rattled off "2 Marsons, 2 Melvilles, 2 Pages, 2 Leslies, Mademoiselle Beljane, Mrs. Wilkins, and Miss Miranda Brand".
However, at the end of the book, when Miranda mentions "Lang's Eleven", it's as if he doesn't know what she's talking about. Miranda says "oh, I had forgotten you wouldn't know about that" and rattles off the same litany of names!
It isn't really important, but I did do a double-take!

The atmosphere of post-war Berlin is captured vividly and hauntingly. This is an aerial photgraph giving a sense of the devastation.

This is the Soviet war memorial in Berlin where about 7000 of the 80,000 Soviets killed in that battle are buried.

Karlyne wrote: "I didn't mind the jewel connection, Carolien, because there were so many true stories of the Nazi hoarding artwork, etc. ..." That's very true, Karlyne. I read The Monuments Men: Allied Heroes, Nazi Thieves, and the Greatest Treasure Hunt in History and the scale of the looting and hoarding was staggering.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Ha! Kaye and/or her editor missed this one:
Back in chapter 6 Lang told Miranda there were really 11 suspects and rattled off "2 Marsons, 2 Melvilles, 2 Pages, 2 Leslies, Mademoiselle Beljane, Mrs...."

I thought that was funny, too! Chapter 6 had the "Aunt Hettyish" feeling in it, and I seem to remember that later on Simon had no recollection of her, either. This does not bode well for birthdays and anniversaries...

Great photos Hana - especially the first one.

Out of the three Death.. books I have read so far, this is my least favourite. I don't think it being a more depressing setting was the reason, I think the main reason was the plot lulls & the colourless hero & heroine. (although I don't think the hero in Death in Cyprus had much personality either.)

But I didn't start suspecting Stella till close to the end, so the denouement was genuinely thrilling for me.

But naming a children's home after Stella? Whats next - the Jack the Ripper Retreat for Fallen Women? Just odd.

Hana wrote: "The atmosphere of post-war Berlin is captured vividly and hauntingly. This is an aerial photgraph giving a sense of the devastation.

"

This picture is absolutely stunning; you can almost smell the rubble, the damp dust and dead air rising up. In the Elliott trilogy by Elizabeth Goudge, David has to recover from being a RAF pilot/bomber over, I think, Hamburg; it's not easy to reconcile necessity and inclination, is it?

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Great photos Hana - especially the first one.

Out of the three Death.. books I have read so far, this is my least favourite. I don't think it being a more depressing setting was the reason, I thin..."

Haha, Carol! I want to be in charge of naming new schools: the possibilities are endless!

Karlyne wrote: "Hana wrote: "The atmosphere of post-war Berlin is captured vividly and hauntingly. This is an aerial photgraph giving a sense of the devastation.

"

This picture is absolutely stunning; you can a..."

Yes, any warmonger should look at that picture. The devastation is so overwhelming.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Hana wrote: "The atmosphere of post-war Berlin is captured vividly and hauntingly. This is an aerial photgraph giving a sense of the devastation.

"

This picture is absolutely stu..."

That, of course, is the dilemma of every thinking person, determining where we personally fall on the "right" and "wrong" scale...

Hana
Thanks for finding a pic of the Soviet Memorial to their dead soldiers. As I suspected from Kaye's description, it is almost overwhelming. It appears to be from the 'brutalist' school of architecture, so beloved by designers of civic centers, court houses, university buildings, etc during the mid-20th century.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Hana
Thanks for finding a pic of the Soviet Memorial to their dead soldiers. As I suspected from Kaye's description, it is almost overwhelming. It appears to be from the 'brutalist' school of archi..."

I had never heard it called "brutalist" - so apt!!! And it explains, too, why I've never been a fan of the architecture of the 50s or 60s.

Ah yes...the Brutalist school...how I loathe it. It even hit architecturally lovely cities like my Boston like a Biblical plague of boils. Here is Boston's City Hall. An incomprehensible building--once inside, always lost. A cold, uneasy pile of concrete with not a single welcoming window or entry. All set on a truly brutal, treeless, windswept space with strange, inexplicable changes in level that are often ice-covered and trip the unwary.

But I digress....;)

I agree that the romance was pretty weak. I mean, seriously, how can you fall in love with a guy who uses you as bait to catch a murderer without your knowledge and then acts all knowing and masterful about it post the harrowing, fear-filled moments?

And anyway what is it with M.M Kaye and these abusive male types? Fortunately my favorite The Far Pavillions has a hero who can care deeply at the center of the narrative.

I loved this one. There were so many far-fetched coincidences, but I didn't mind it one bit. Once again, I really didn't have anything figured out until the final pages, except that from one chapter to the next, I knew if there were going to be any more murders, it was for sure going to be Miranda that would stumble upon the body! And the first time Kaye described that swampy outdoor pool I knew somebody was going to get dumped in it. I was also rather thrilled that I figured out the meaning of the mysterious open window just a page or two before it was explained - that was a clever twist!

I agree that the romance part was lame. It's almost as though she makes it ridiculous on purpose. Not enough to wake up to the idea of mutual attraction in the final pages with pleasant hints for the future. Nope, it's all "Harrumph. I don't know that I like you very--oh, yes, of course I'll marry you!" I loved it, anyway. And I just adored Wally the boy detective. And I would like my very own rollerbear, please. :)

Kathryn
About the only hint we are given re: romance is when Miranda sits in the garden thinking/daydreaming about Simon (right before she finds the maid's body). So, of course when he's quizzing her the next day, she can't very well admit what she spent the 20 minutes thinking about.

I share your love for Wally. He was a bright spot in the gloomy story. Poor Lottie was almost a ghost child by contrast.

Karlyne wrote: "One thing that I do like about Kaye's mysteries is that she doesn't hesitate to make anyone the villain, and she keeps the heroine explaining to herself just why it can't be any of those people she..."

Karlyne, that's a great point about Kaye making anyone the villain. I usually go into a mystery suspecting everyone, but so far Kaye has surprised me. It was fun to have part of the mystery wrapped up with a somewhat predictable villain, only to discover there was another one lurking and it was a main character!

Hana wrote: "The atmosphere of post-war Berlin is captured vividly and hauntingly. This is an aerial photgraph giving a sense of the devastation.

"
Incredible photo! It reminds me of this line that I particularly liked: The air held a fresh, clean smell as of newly mixed mortar--that characteristic smell of Berlin on a wet day, that has its origin in rain falling on mile after mile of rubble.

It's the sort of detail that only someone who was there at the time might think to write.

Hana wrote: "Ah yes...the Brutalist school...how I loathe it. It even hit architecturally lovely cities like my Boston like a Biblical plague of boils. Here is Boston's City Hall. An incomprehensible building--..."

Hana, that is one ugly pile of cold concrete...

This is my first MM Kaye book and I really enjoyed it. I agree it did have it's problems, such as the weak romance, but it was really a page turner for me and an escapist read. I loved it and will definitely read more of hers. I found a 3 novel volume on paperback swaps and ordered it right away.

I'm so glad you enjoyed it, Bobbie. MM Kaye is one of those writers I can always count on for a diverting, page-turning read. Even her door-stopper India sagas (her best novels, actually) kept me up late into the night and even the wee morning hours.

A side note to the brutality school of architecture: the grandkids always respond to the question, "How was school?" with "Brutal!". I'm not sure how it got started, but pretty much any question now is answered with "brutal". So I told them about the architecture, and it cracked them up!

Definitely a 'page-turning read', as you all have written. First because one wants to know what happens, secondly because it is written in a pleasing way - one doesn't struggle with complicated narration or language, etc.

I have enjoyed two mystery novels by M.M. Kaye (that I have read until now). But, her three historical fictions are ones of my favourite books ever.

First M.M. Kaye for me as well. I'm not sure I'd even heard of her, so thanks to the group for the introduction. I put a few randoms on my TBR about half-way through this one.
Good mystery. Good writing. Bad romance, but that's not what I look for. My problem was that after some initial "hints" that there was interest, any talk of feelings was dropped to keep the pages turning. Then when the ending came up, it was so abrupt that I reread the last section to see if I'd missed something. I'm not complaining because I don't need romance in everything I read. In fact, having just seen the Little Women movie, I kept thinking Ms Kaye was adhering to (aka protesting) the line, "And if the main character is a woman, make sure that by the end, she's married...or dead." The irony is that part of my decision to read this is that I could use it for another Group's genre of the month: Romance.

Mela wrote: "Definitely a 'page-turning read', as you all have written. First because one wants to know what happens, secondly because it is written in a pleasing way - one doesn't struggle with complicated nar..."

Not much for historical fiction, but perhaps I should try one of hers. What often stops me is the writing style. Does Ms. Kaye avoid the über-flourish and stick to more practical language, as used here?

Allegra wrote: "Mela wrote: "Definitely a 'page-turning read', as you all have written. First because one wants to know what happens, secondly because it is written in a pleasing way - one doesn't struggle with co..."

I've only read The Far Pavilions. I found it a bit uneven. Genuinely enthralling it parts, tedious in others. But I like my fiction shorter than 450 pages in the general way, so take this with a grain of salt. :)

Edit: I don't remember the language in The FP being particularly flowery.

Yes, M.M. Kaye's historical fictions are long. And I also wouldn't call the language "flowery".

I was fascinated with India showed by her and what messages she wanted to leave for readers. Romances - a matter of taste - but I loved all three of them.

I haven't managed Trade Winds yet, probably because it's also sooooo long. But, since I'm in the middle of Middlemarch and it hasn't killed me yet (I'm actually enjoying it, which kind of surprises me), I may move Trade Winds up on the tbr pile. Far Pavilions and Shadow of the Moon are gorgeous books.

Karlyne wrote: "I haven't managed Trade Winds yet, probably because it's also sooooo long. But, since I'm in the middle of Middlemarch and it hasn't killed me yet (I'm actually enjoying it, which kind of surprises..."

I've read everything by Kaye except for her autobiographies and I love them all. Trade Winds is probably the most uneven of all of them - it's got some tropes that are quite shocking to the modern reader.

I'll be looking for them! I have read her autobio, and there were so many similarities in Rumer Godden's childhood and Kaye's that I tend to get them mixed up. Fascinating history.

I would actually try her autobiographies first, especially the first one. They are not as long as her historical fiction, but are fascinating.

I agree, Carolien!

I finished this story last night. It was ok. IMO, not as imaginatively written as Death in Kashmir but she commendably conveyed the horrible feeling of loss and devastation in the aftermath of a war.

ShanDizzy wrote: "I finished this story last night. It was ok. IMO, not as imaginatively written as Death in Kashmir but she commendably conveyed the horrible feeling of loss and devastation in the aftermath of a war."

Yes, the grayness and bleakness of the landscape - and I learned that there really is a "brutality" school of architecture, thanks to the group!

Karlyne wrote: "Yes, the grayness and bleakness of the landscape - and I learned that there really is a "brutality" school of architecture, thanks to the group! ."

Yes. I saw that post. Interesting.